Talk:Nose guard

Guard vs tackle
The nose guard should be merged into nose tackle, seeing as how the 3-4 defense is more commonly run than the 5-x defense.

they are the same position most 3-4 defenses play 5 up anyways

I reverted the merge of nose tackle and nose guard because:
 * It was a cut and paste move, essentially.
 * Which title is more common? Because that should be the one that everything should be merged to.
 * Should it even be merged at all.

Zzyzx11 (Talk) 03:10, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I've personally never heard of a nose guard before seeing the link in the Footbal defensive strategy page. I've always known it to be a nose tackle. Looking at Casey Hampton's bio on the Steeler's website, there are references to him being both a nose tackle and nose guard, tackle in the NFL, guard in college. I would say that it should be merged into tackle as I believe that is much more common, however with the further re-emergence of the 3-4 Defense, it might come clearer next year through commentary. One last point, the designation of NT suggests strongly that it is tackle, or else it would be NG, no? --Ritteke 17:45, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

There is a distinct difference between a nose tackle and a nose guard. A nose tackle is the defensive tackle in a 3-4 formation. Nose guards are the innermost defensive linemen in a 5-lineman formation, such as the goal-line formation, so that:

3-4 scheme                 Goal-Line [LB] [LB]               [LB]  [LB]  [LB] [LB]             [LB] [DE] [NT] [DE]          [DE][DT][NG][DT][DE] --Jprg1966 March 15, 2006

In that case, the page is incorrect anyway, because it says, and I quote: "More often, the nose guard will be employed as the interior defender in the 3-4 defense. The nose guard lines up directly opposite the offensive center, or over the center's nose. "

--LiamW, June 5, 2006

The uses of the term "nose guard" on the Nose Tackle page and "nose tackle" on the Nose Guard page should be eliminated, and the two should be kept seperate, because, as previously stated, Nose Guards are the middle lineman in a 5-man front, while Nose Tackles are either the middle lineman in a 3-4 or, in the terminology of some specific coaches' defenses, the defensive tackle in a 4-3 who lines up against a double-team.

While players like Casey Hampton and Ted Washington play a Nose Guard assignment in their teams' respective goalline defenses, they aren't actually Nose Guards, because in base defenses they play Nose Tackle on 3-man lines, or, in the case of Ted Washington with the Bears and Hampton in college, Defensive Tackle on 4-man lines. Actual nose guards, who play over the center on a 5-man line in the base defense, only exist in High School football, and occasioinally under some defensive co-ordinators in college.

As to the referrence on the Steelers' website to Hampton as a nose guard in college, I chalk that up to the fact that Steelers.com has a reputation among fans of the team for being poorly maintained. Hampton played Defensive Tackle at Texas, in tandem with another NFL Standout, Shaun Rogers.

-JonB, August 22, 2006

Isnt a Nose Guard the middle lineman of a 5 down lineman scheme, whether it be a goal line or not? the 5-2 or 5-3 defense being predominant in High Schools.

Ed

Correct, Ed. Any defensive formation with five down linemen features a player in the nose guard position. However, he should only be listed as a nose guard (on rosters or in biographical articles) if that is the base defensive alignment.

In most cases (atleast in the NFL), the guy who lines up at NG on a goal-line formation would be the guy lining up at NT had the team played 3-4 (example, when Charger play Goal-line, Jamal Williams, our NT, lines up at NG ---for 4-3's, I'd assume their NGs would fit the pro-type NT size and would be the NT if they played 3-4) To JonB: yes, NG isn't a real position, just a spot in that formation, but the plays who line up there are either 3-4 NTs or 4-3 DTs who fit the profile of a NT (like the Bengal's Sam Adams, who can be called a NT because he is responsible for multiple gaps). --AndyT 12/18/06

According to the diagrams Jprg1966 made, the NT and NG occupy the same position, just in different formations. Was it really worth it to give different names to these? Anyway, I'm here because I was checking out old merge tages. Is the consensus to keep NG and NT separate? If so, the merge tags can be removed. Tocharianne 03:42, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Not True
The nose guard and the nose tackle are the same. You claim they're different yet you have no sources. Provide sources or the merge should go through. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.159.67.168 (talk) 18:33, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

"Nose guard" is a very old term for a player in any formation who lined up opposite the offensive team's center. This could be in a five-man line, a three-man line or a shifted four-man line. A player might only be a nose guard on some occasions if he was playing in a four-bagger because the line might not be shifted at other times or it might be shifted in the other direction. The name came about because _six-man_ lines were once common and the two interior men were guards, just as on offense. When they went to a five-man line, the term guard was used for the middle man. The Nose Guard.

The term Nose Tackle is used because NFL analysts (and coaches to a lesser extent) don't like to admit that it is the same game. Even the difference between five-man and three-man lines is exaggerated. There were, and still are a few, five-man lines where the "ends" played in a down stance and didn't perform the duties of an outside linebacker. However, most five-man ends today are outside linebackers in all but name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.234.37.99 (talk) 02:48, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. There is no clear, widely-agreed-upon distinction between "nose guard" and "nose tackle". The two terms are mostly used interchangeably. —Lowellian (reply) 23:56, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Merge September 2010
Merged into Tackle (American football). 69.3.72.9 (talk) 15:11, 7 September 2010 (UTC)