Talk:Nostradamus/Archive 1

Birth and Death Dates
What is the source of the birth and death dates for Nostradamus? July 2, 1566 is often given as the death date.


 * His tombstone in Salon-de-Provence gives the year (1566), and says he lived 62 years, 6 months and 17 days. The tombstone is transcribed in the Leoni edition (which I'm looking at right this minute), pp37&#8209;38, which also has a poor but readable photograph of it. The same edition states, also p37, that Chavigny, ND's contemporary biographer, says that ND died during the night of July 1&#8209;2. Subtracting 62&#8209;6&#8209;17, that gives a birth date of January 15&#8209;26, 1504.
 * On p15, Leoni states, but without giving any source, ND was born December 14, 1503 (duly footnoted "December 23 by the Gregorian calendar. All dates are given in the calendar prevailing throughout Nostradamus' lifetime, the Julian."). The difference between Julian and Gregorian was 10 days and is not enough to account for the discrepancy with the birth date as computed above. &#8212; Bill 22:17, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Net Versions of "Nostradamus"
The folowing is being spread by the net:

"In the city of god there will be a great thunder, two brothers torn a part by chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb", "the third big war will begin when the big city is burning" -NOSTRADAMUS 1654

Is this a true Nostradamus prophecy?


 * No, you can imagine any number of possible coups, crisis of monarchies, or general disagreements that could make the first vague statement true. The second one is super generic; of course one would expect a big city to burn prior to the start of a war.  I think sometimes people like to equate events with prophecies so they seem larger of scope and more significant and meaningful, and sometimes this means making broad interpretations.  I'd like to suggest clearing this page and putting in a more informative article *about* Nostradamus, rather than trying to apply vague connections between the prophecies and perceived real events, and maybe address *how* and *why* people in the past have tried to apply the prophecies to real events.  -- BryceHarrington


 * I argee, but name a war that started with the burning of a city.


 * I Agree, but my question was not if the prophecy predicts the ocurrences of yesterday but if that prediction realy belongs to Nostradamus. I came to wikipedia to get some answers about it and I didn't found any. joao


 * No, I sort of doubt that Nostradamus wrote a prophecy a century after he died. ;) Anyway, if it matters, I agree with "BryceHarrington" -- editing this page is starting to piss me off. It's beginning to look more like the "Weekly World News" than an encyclopedia page. Thunderbunny

I received an email with some addition verses from Nostradamus

Fire in the New City as the century spins into the new time the five tiered ring is broken (pentagon?) birds in the skies come into fowl hands (hijacking?) panic faces the people

I am also interested in whether these quote are really from 400 years ago.

Looks like nonsense to me. If it were real, people would give the reference (century/quatrain) so that it could easily be checked. There is one about fire in a cité neufve (which was interpreted as New York long before yesterday's events), namely VI.97, but it reads like this:


 * Cinq & quarante degrés ciel bruslera,
 * Feu approcher de la grand cité neufve,
 * Instant grand flamme esparse sautera,
 * Quand on voudra des Normans faire preuve.

--Zundark (2001 Sep 12)

Here's a webpage on the matter:

http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/hoaxes/predict.htm

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After reading the comments above, and in an attempt to give more substance to this entry, I've added a "Biography" section to learn something about Nostradamus life; a "Preparation and Methods of Prophecy" section to understand his spiritual studies and prophecy techniques so that others might use or benefit from them; an "Intent of Prophecies" section to understand why anyone would write about prophecy, Nostradamus' own reasons for sharing his insights, and a basic understanding of prophecy itself in terms of events and responses; and a "Prophetic Quatrains" section to give a sample of prophecies which might serve to inspire others not just to comment or interpret prophecy from an intellectual perspective, but to actually delve into it experientially, exploring with actual techniques which help you to find out for yourself. You may argue for or against Nostradamus and his quatrains - which in itself keeps the debate alive - but more than anything, I hope you are provoked or inspired enough to find out the truth in the Akashic Records for yourself. Books, techniques and support groups have existed for centuries if you want to learn firsthand. May you find exactly what you are seeking. Blessings, Chris Sadhuta )+( 6/21/04 - Summer Solstice

Thank you for that, Crazy McKooKoo. Thunderbunny 01:25, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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This page has long since gotten way out of hand. We are supposed to be writing an NPOV encyclopedia article here, but someone keeps editing this page from the perspective that Nostradamus is a very legitimate prophet. It's a pretty bold stance considering that the place where most people first hear about Nostradamus is a supermarket checkout aisle, and it takes some real creativity to come up with some of those interpretations (the "Thiokol" anagram sticks out as particularly outlandish, and the one about the Pope doesn't even have much to do with John Paul I except the fact that he died). Thunderbunny 01:05, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

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I've tried to fix up some problems, but there are probably quite a few left. I notice the Intent of Prophecy section is mostly duplicated on the Prophecy page; it should probably be deleted from this one, as it has no direct connection to Nostradamus. User:Ben Standeven 29 Jul 2004

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Here are some changes I made:


 * Deleted "Intent of Prophecies", which is repeated almost verbatim elsewhere.
 * Deleted "Possible future interpretations", which is repeated on an external website and therefore a copyright violation (a strict no-no on Wikipedia)
 * "There were only seven astronauts (not nine) that were killed, but further inquiry discovered flaws in the shuttle and in the command decisions." Deleted the second half of this sentence on account of being a non-sequitur. How do flaws in command decisions somehow make this accurate?
 * Keeping the John Paul I section, even though I don't see what it has to do with him.
 * Added some stuff to the "Examples of Prophetic Quatrains" sections, including the source of the "U.S. + Russia vs. China" interpretation and a new paragraph about skepticism.
 * Removed "Neil Marshall" link; he's non-notable other than that one paper, and therefore unlikely to have his own Wikipedia page.

I'm leaving the rest alone for now. Some of it's still interesting, but a lot of it seems like it belongs more on X-Files than in an encyclopedia. Thunderbunny 00:58, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

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I made a bunch of edits...I think it's okay now. I removed the NPOV. Thunderbunny 02:19, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Suggest skeptical addition to "Pasteur"
The prophetic section mentioning Pasteur has been skeptically read as translating to "the Shepherd", as "Pasteur" literrally translates to Shepherd. The line is sometimes regarded as a reference to Christ (as in THE Shepherd) or to some unnamed "shepherd" as in a bishop or other religious leader.

Either way, the Pasteur line certainly neads some NPOV work, but I'll leave this to those managing this page.


 * Good suggestion, I'll add it. Also, it's good Wikipedia etiquette to "sign" your talk entries (do that by placing four tildes (~) after your post) Thunderbunny 19:34, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

BTW, could someone please explain to me what the "great lunar cycle" is? Thunderbunny 19:40, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

1999
The translation of the quatrains to English can create some errors, especially since Nostradamus' French itself is weird and sometimes impossible to deciphere. The original quatrian contains no mention of Genghis Khan, but only of a "Roy d'Angoulmois". One interpretation is to consider this as anagram for Roy des Mongulois - King of the Mongols. This again could be interpreted as leader of the Chinese, the Russians, the Japanese, or of whatever big nation East of the Urals. Another interpretation would be for a leader coming from the region of Angouleme in France (the traditional name of the region being Angoumois). Some guy called David Ovason argues that the key to many of Nostradamus' quatrains is to be found in astrology and Christian mythology. Indeed, all the quatrains mentioning Mars, Saturn, etc. should be taken as astrological indications of a date (e.g. the year when both Mars and Saturn will be in a given sign of the zodiac). In the case of Angoulmois, Ovason argues that this could mean Ange Ol Mois: the month of the angel Ol (an angel that existed in medieval Christian lore, apparently). The angel Ol is associated with the sign Leo, which rules over the month of July. If we go further in this interpretation, we have to look for the King of Angoulmois, i.e. the king of the month of July, i.e. the king of the sign Leo. This "king" would be the Sun in astrology (notice the similarity of Ol and Sol - latin for sun). In medieval esoterics, the angel associated with the sun would be Michael. The quatrain therefore does not talk about Genghis Khan, but of someone called Michael... qed.

Please note that I don't give this example because I believe in all this, but to give an example of the intricacy of Nostradamus' "prophecies". It should be pointed out that many references to astrology, "angelology" (?), esoterism, etc., exists in his quatrains, and that he used all these metaphors to disguise the true interpretation of the propheties (as he apparently claims himself).

In a sense, Nostradamus' work is remarkable not so much for the prophetic content, but for the innovative linguistics (use of images, metaphors, anagrams,etc.) and the use of occult medieval "knowledge" (astrology, esotericism, mythology (Christian and other), numerology,...) to compose a series of poems that have enthralled the world ever since...Luis rib 00:55, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Mouthful of blood quatrain
Which one is this? From the BBC program March 2005 on Stalin, it appears that as he lay dying his mouth filled with blood.


 * Talk to a paramedic: You'll find this is pretty common. - DavidWBrooks 18:56, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

An addition to "Three Antichrists"
Below the bit about the 3 Antichrists, how about this addition, or some variation-

"However, how Napoleon or Hitler could be "antichrists" is a point of contention amoung skeptics- Napoleon may have been a conqueror but he is not known as a great evil like Hitler. Also, both of them were unsuccessful in their efforts, and it is unknown how they could possibly fit into the idea of the Antichrist in Christian theology."

On the Adolf Hitler profecy
"When the child of Germany observes nothing."While the original Germania might not bear any resemblance to what is today Germany I would like to point out Hitler had plans to build Germania,the world capital.Since that project never came to be,no child could have seen it or be born there.

Time to break this article up?
This article cannot be a discussion about every quatrain and ways that it may have prophecized certain events - that is a topic to take over entire books, if not libraries. Still, such discussion is obviously wanted: Perhaps the time has come to create a separate article that we link to from here - Allegedly prophetic quatrains of Nostradamus or something like that.- leaving biography, methods, skepticism, hoaxes and popular culture in this article. - DavidWBrooks 19:17, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * You may be right, though I believe "[Quatrains of Nostradamus]" or something similar would be sufficient as a name (no need for "allegedly prophetic"). This page here could be expanded to tell more aboutrs Nostradamus's life, and his influence till this day. Maybe also we could include a section about his style (along the lines of my previous contribution to this talk page - which unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to include into the main article). What do you think? Luis rib 21:23, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Quatrains of Nostradamus sounds good to me. I'll wait a day or so for more comment, and if there isn't I'll create it. - DavidWBrooks 22:04, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Wait maybe until Wednesday or so. This page has only moderate traffic. Luis rib 22:23, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Angoumois + XiongNu/HungNu + People
Recalling the story of Nostradamus in July 1999 (Old French Calendar) (August 1999 for Gregorian Calendar).

We can get the meaning of French original "grand roy d'Angoumois".

July_1999

(URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostradamus)

{

1999

C10, Q72

In the year 1999 and seven months, a great King of Terror will come from the sky, he will bring back the great King Mongol King (French original: "grand roy d'Angoumois"), before and after Mars rules happily.

}

Huns_Mongols

(URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hun)

(URL: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%95%E3%83%B3%E6%97%8F)

{

Many historians consider the Huns (meaning "person" in Mongolian language) the first Mongolian and Turkic people mentioned in European history.

Japanese language keeps the original sound very well. The "XiongNu" is more accurate to be pronounced as "HungNu". In other words, it means the Chinese language word of "Xiong" without sound is having the more accurate sound of "Hung". And "Hung" means people.

}

Yup, guessing the "Mars" in the 1999-C10-Q72 means "male".

Hey males... when do we wanna get into family formation...

A basic family needs a male and an opposite gender of female.

Good to have cattle (bull, cow) to earn the food for the family.

Bye.

From Xpree at e96lkw@hotmail.com on 15Jun05 in Zone H (UTC+0800).

E. & O. E., + E. (Errors and Omissions Exempted, plus Estimation)

[ The End ]

What is going on in the "Preparation and methods for prophecy" section?
I think someone has edited this section (Preparation and methods for prophecy) with a 'comedy' 2nd paragraph. Or else i'm going crazy.

--Macgruer 29 June 2005 18:49 (UTC)

And it's now been sorted out. Cheers.

--Macgruer 30 June 2005 11:20 (UTC)

Muhammad?
Look what i found:

http://www.world-mysteries.com/awr_5.htm

X / 66 The chief of London by rule of America, The Island of Scotland shall be tempered by frost, Kings and Priests shall have one, who is a false Anti-Christ Who will put them altogether in discord.

This remarkable quatrain states that British & USA leaders will empower a dictator. An Anti-Christ will betray the leaders & peoples of both countries. The French prophet should not have written 'L'Americh,' but he did in X/66.

in the Preface:

This is in spite of all the ambiguous opinions surpassing all natural reason, expressed by Mahomet; which is why God the Creator, through the ministry of his fiery agents with their flames, will come to propose to our perceptions as well as our eyes the reasons for future predictions.

--Striver 00:48, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Mabus is I
I am he who is known as i am, I am the one referd to as Mabus

This wikipedia article is Lemesurier, not Nostradamus.
This page should go back when there were people to stand up to Lemesurier and there were most authors in the bibliography.

Lemesurier cannot understand Nostradamus because he doesn't believe in God. I know this explanation may sound subjective to many, but when Nostradamus says that he was shown the future by God, it means nothing for Lemesurier, he doesn't believe Nostradamus. ALL of his examples are circumstantial, and don't absolutely pan out if you look closely. But it is normal that he tries to rationalize. Anyone would want to know the magic trick (since only God knows the future). But it has to be true. It is not because there were the parallel events, or book relating prophecies, or whatever work around the "Seer", echoing the words used, that he did trick the world.

If you don't believe Nostradamus, but would rather believe Lemesurier, it is your choice. Me I tell you, get the page back to when there were both theories, many years ago, when the history was there, not only the lies of stubborn Lemesurier.

He couldn't believe it was God. It is very understandable that he would look for an explanation, except, he shouldn't have been working on prophecies, he is no exegete.

It is not true that everyone agrees about prophecies being projection of past events and the other lies of Lemesurier. Well, you are the encyclopedia experts. Do you all think that Nostradamus was ... err ... "a liar" ? Me I tell you, Nostradamus didn't lie. I know this is the hardest question to ask in the world. The only proof that God exists *is* Nostradamus ! Plus, it is subject to understanding the concealed meaning of the text which comes to light when the connotation of the event are known (when the prophecy comes to fruition). So the prophecies ARE real, except the world will probably only see it by themselves only in half a century (~500 years after 1555), *if* one of his prophecy *is* about him, so I am not surprised. But he guaranteed that the world will one day see that most of his prophecies will have happened. But, you see, how we won't really know until it has occurred. Even though 2/3rd of the prophecies have come to pass, it is not now. The interpretations probably need more work or more events need to happen. Anyway, this is not the same thing as making them by a trick. It should be easy, Nostradamus said each of his prophecies can only apply to one occurrence. It defeats the basic hypothesis of Lemesurier, who borrowed it from Brind'Amour, whose work is nonetheless remarkable although tainted with the same premises as Lemesurier about God unfortunately.

For wikipedia, I think it is sad that this resulted in that. I hope we can set the world straight.

Jean Guernon, Author. --Jean Guernon (talk) 15:12, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jean Guernon (talk • contribs) 14:33, 10 November 2017 (UTC)