Talk:Notes on the State of Virginia

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Racism
I'm a bit flummoxed by text about Jefferson's racism, as brutishly written in this book, being edited out and referred to in the history as "bias statements." High school history books have brainwashed too many of us. --139.62.108.235 (talk) 03:47, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The greater part of this article reads not as a account of Jefferson's Notes and its history but as discussion of contemporaneous response to one part of the book. This discussion belongs in the article, clearly, but it shouldn't be the main body of the article. The article needs to be expanded and its parts organized under different headings. pdbowman 13:18, 24 October 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pdbowman (talk • contribs)

Problems with sources
Removed Greg Warnusz's self-published paper on the Internet - does not meet WP:RS. The article needs more cites from secondary sources about the Notes: both in terms of how the book was received then and since. It is OR to have only editors' interpretation and quoting from the primary source of what Jefferson wrote.Parkwells (talk) 19:04, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Undue weight given to views of blacks and slavery
Agree that it is undue weight to give so much content to Jefferson's views on slavery, and none on his other ideas. The book needs to be discussed more thoroughly by relying on secondary sources: what recognized scholars of Jefferson have said about it and its relation to the political society of the time and following. People did not respond only to his sections on slavery.Parkwells (talk) 19:04, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Confusion about publication date
This says the book was first published in 1784; other accounts say 1785. Typo or what? I've changed it to 1785, but wonder about the confusion. Parkwells (talk) 19:04, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Additional Sections
Good comments and viewpoints by everyone, imho. The call is for more expansion of the other sections besides just slavery, so I've added Jefferson's fundamental core evidence for the equally explosive religion section and his: "separation of church and state". Note: NOTSOV = "Notes on the State of Virginia". Jefferson was accused of atheism for his NOTSOV section on "20 gods or no god" (see entry.) I've read that Federalist's newspapers carried the charges, but unsure which ones and which dates. Maybe someone can add this.

I think that the slavery portion is missing Jefferson's condemnation of the slave trade to balance it out, which I'm having trouble locating. According to historian Joseph J. Ellis, I know Jefferson was upset that his proposal to end slavery in "NOTSOV" via his political enemies during the election of 1800 (or was it 1802?) would become known to his neighbors in Virginia Plantation Society. So it's gotta be in there somewhere. I'm still unclear what Jefferson was proposing at this time in his life (in NOTSOV.) During his 1776 Declaration of Independence, in his first draft he blamed "The Christian King of Europe" (King George III) for forcing slavery on the Colonies, but the South walked out and made him strike that part out, and Jefferson never got over it. Also in his early political career he made unsuccesseful efforts to ban slavery in the Virginia House and the Federal Congress, according to Ellis. So maybe the early abolitionist Jefferson got burned out?

If I have read correctly, Jefferson's later proposals, like in "NOTSOV" were primarily to prevent slavery in new states and territories, not to abolish it on his Plantation? But I could be wrong about that. Ellis says he intended "NOTSOV" to be for a French Audience and claimed the end of slavery was near, which wasn't exactly true. Near the end of his life, I take it, he apparently argued against complete emancipation, fearing it would incite a civil war according to some historians? Not sure. These paradoxes of Jefferson were why Biographer Ellis entitled his book: "American Sphinx:  The Character of Thomas Jefferson." P.172-3. Jefferson really was an enigma just like the Sphinx of Egypt. He gave citizens so much freedom, but at the same time enslaved 10-16 year olds in his nail factory after writing NOTSOV.

O.K, I found it, p172, American Sphinx: NOTSOV has a fixed date: 1800 is when Jefferson suggests freeing all children of slaves born. I'll try to add that part. I'm having trouble linking the sources legibly, unsure of proper form. Shouldn't footnotes be under the heading at the bottom called "References" instead of just "Notes"?

"NOTSOV" is a terribly important book since it provides clues to the thinking of the founder of the Democratic-Republican movement that Jefferson organized while still in the Adams Administration. That movement destroyed the Federalists forever as a party in the clean sweep of 1800 according to "Contest For Power" 1968.

His NOTSOV comments on ditching the evil crop of tobacco are very interesting also, I'll see if I can add that section as well.

Any comments by anyone are invited SilenceDoogood (talk) 16:28, 4 August 2012 (UTC)