Talk:Novi Pazar/Archive 1

Population
big difference in population to the article in german
 * All sources I found have a number closer to the one on de. wiki. I changed it. See: . Thanks for pointing this out! --Dejan &#268;abrilo 21:02, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Maybe one of the numbers is for the city and another for the municipality? Nikola 04:59, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Another bomb in Novi Pazar
Importen for articel 11:40 April 18 2006| B92

This is the second bombing attack in Novi Pazar since the Serbian Government decided to disband the Municipal Parliament in which Rasim Ljajic’s Sandzak Democratic Party and Muric’s party had the majority. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.158.41.88 (talk • contribs)

Vandalism
User Batokanda dont stop to abuse the article for his own opinion and propaganda. --Nado158 (talk) 23:02, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The user Batokanda ignores all and continues to make what he wants and processed according to his own opinion. --Nado158 (talk) 21:06, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

I am inviting Wikipedia and all others concerned to check what I have written. And I have written only minor referential facts about Novi Pazar, Sandzak and Raska District. Anyone can go and assure themselves by examining that Novi Pazar is not a main cultural and economic centre of Raska District; officially it is Kraljevo, but not Novi Pazar. In regards of Sandzak, Novi Pazar is true and real cultural and economic centre. Even a little child on the street knows and would tell you that. Yet, you should have seen those things before you wrote anything about it. Secondly, I regard Wikipedia as an open tool of freedom of writing, where you can write without censorship the referential text and facts on what you are concerned. If I am on the wrong place, do not hesitate to tell me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Batokanda (talk • contribs) 21:58, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You are confusing something and some things you put in the wrong rubric. Novi Pazar is a municipality in Raška District like Kraljevo, Tutin, Raška (city), ect. Raska District is an administrative division. The non existing and as not administration occurring historical Sandzak region, which is located between Serbia and Montenegro, should not be and is not equated. Novi Pazar is the cultural center of Bosniaks in Serbia, and the biggest city in the Raška District and southeast Serbia, thats true. But what are your intentions? You removed partially the Raska region and replaces it with Sandzak, why? On other articles you tried a part of the connection of Novi Pazar ect. with Serbia to minimize or cover up. Why? Is that your wish here? If you wish, you can write things about Sandzak etc. but in the rubric history. Best whishesNado158 (talk) 11:37, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Whats your problem?--Nado158 (talk) 12:10, 23 May 2012 (UTC) Reply to Nado from Batokanda: I do not have a problem, but you do have it obviously. Look up here, that what you are talking about is just an open Serbian politics towards Bosniaks and Sandzak altogether to minimize our presence here and to cover up true facts about history of Novi Pazar and Sandzak. Sandzak have been existing throughout centuries, and it does not deal with that intentional arrangement of Serbia. Furthermore, Sandzak has two dimensions i.e., it is the part of European history as well as of the present times. Although you have denied it for more than last hundred years, Sandzak still exist and shall exist despite your and anyone's intentions to. Who asked us in the time when Serbia arranged its counties; we were not asked about anything that deals with us. Despite that we have been living here with our distinct culture and religion as long as you have, you are still ignoring us and discriminate. Do not get me wrong, I do not complain about the term Raska District; I respect this country and its Constitution despite I we were not equal. Yet, you should not mix the terms Raska and Sandzak. Sandzak has more broader significance and meaning than Raska District. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Batokanda (talk • contribs) 15:56, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * But, you have a problem. You can not distinguish. No, it is opposite. You're trying to emphasize the term Sandzak, to maximize his significance and you are swapping facts etc. Where do I minimize? Did I somewhere removed something about Bosniaks?Or about Sadnzak in the rubric history? No. But you removed and you maximize, because you write only pro Bosniak, but you must remain neutral and that you are not. That what you are talking about is just an open Bosniak politics towards Serbs and Montenegrins altogether to maximize the Bosniak presence here and to cover up the Serbs and Montentrins. You said Sandzak have been existing throughout centuries becuase of the Ottman occupation, thats true, Raska also right? The region are called mainly from the Muslim population as Sandzak and the other half of the population, mainly the Christian does not, of course because is was before the Ottman occupation the Raska region. The Ottman rulers introduced the term Sandzak (see Sanjak of Novi Pazar). But the Ottman empire no longer exist right? All Sanjaks on the Balkan disappeared by the exemption, not only in Serbia, also in other countries. Today, the former Sanjak of Novi Pazar, the historical region is in SERBIA and the other part in MONTENEGRO. The Ottman empire no longer exist, you understand? You are forcing us here on your own opinion. You try to revive the past. So why you maximize his significance of Sandzak and why you minimize all other facts? This is a discrimination. You said who asked you when Serbia arranged its counties (this was happen after the liberation from the Ottoman occupation right?)? Ok, i can say also, who asked the time the Serbs and others when the Ottmans occupied Serbia, divided Serbia and renamed some regions ect? The word, the term Sandzak you would never know without the Ottomans. Do not get me wrong, I'm tried to lead an encyclopedic conversation, but you are a political one. Nobody have a problem with Serbs, Bosniaks, Raska, Sandzak or you, you can live with your culture and religion, the Serbs and others too, but i can say you are ignoring the facts, you wish something, but here are just the facts and this is an discrimination against the Serbs and other non Bosniak population. An other argiment is the also the endeavor from some people to revive the Sandzak and to make about him a indipendent state( what he never was). Is that the reason of the maximization? Who asked here the Serbs and the peaceful living muslim and christian popilation? Is that the reason of the maximization ect of the term Sandzak ect in the introduction ect? May be its your wish, may be not, but this is wikipedia an encyclopedia not a wish box, not for me, not for you.Understand, nobody have problems with you but you make mistakes and can not distinguish --Nado158 (talk) 20:07, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Those words are just your opinion. It is you who is trying to cover up and minimize. Also, you are trying to put me in wrong context, you are using sophistries, you are trying to put Sandzak in the past. But Sandzak is both past and present. Or, are you trying to say that European Union and USA and every others who come to Serbia and when they are talking about or in this region they are addressing it as Sandzak? I do not want editing war, or any other kind of war. All I want is to respect me and my people who live in Serbia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Batokanda (talk • contribs) 21:41, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Those words are my your opinion because you make this impression on me. You removed, you revert, you maximize ect. Where i cover up and what? tell me? So, because of the removin and revertion, I explained and I gave you arguments,  but you gave me weak "arguments" make of air taken politican allegations and dont answer it correctly and conitnued to revert.  I told you, I respect you Batokanda  and all people of the world, all religions, of course Islam ect, beliveee me really,  you really imagin the discrimination, also here. I tried to explain before where is the problem but you dont or you dont want to understand where is the problem. No, you trying to put me in wrong context with of the air taken allegations ect. You tell me I trying to put Sandzak in the past. Is Sandzak an district? Exist the Sandzak of Novi Pazr?What is Raska today? Why called some of the Muslim population the Raska rigion Sandzak?Although there their ancestors before the Turkish conquest himself called it not so? Are there any reasons why they prefer and pushing the word Sandzak? Is that true?ect ect. Sandzak is only a historical region for some with fiction borders ect, this is not an discrimination. You said Sandzak is present? Exactly THIS is your opinion, but today the former Sanjak of Novi Pazar dont exist, today it is in Serbia and Montenegro (like before) and thy people there live all togehter peacfully ect. This si for you an discrimination? All your allegations to me are rather the opposite one would think. I do not want editing war, or any other kind of war but you must understand that Sandzaks place is not the introduction rubric, if, it is the is the history rubric.--Nado158 (talk) 16:28, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

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Article improvment
Article need references! That is the biggest problem. If you really want to do good for this article, find some sources! Also, tell me, does anyone of you have any problem with the current state of the article? If yes, tell me what, and we will sort this out. -- WhiteWriterspeaks 20:21, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I dont want a edit war and this was never and is not my intention, i saw now that this kind of edit reverting can be punishable, and i dont want to revert your edits, Batokanda. I would love to ask you here, again to talk, but i dont want to revert anymore. But you continued, after my first invitation to talk, to revert me, others ect.--Nado158 (talk) 16:28, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi guys. In my opinion it is more important to write more about the economy, culture, education, infrustructure, tourism and such things in Novi Pazar rather than just focus on a single issue, which is not so relevant from a world-wide perspective. If you guys are knowledgable about the things Novi Pazar offers, please write about it. It turns out that the talk page is slowly becoming longer than the article itself :) --Comparativist1 (talk) 22:33, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

There is also massive difference between us that tear us apart. And we could go like this timelessly. That was not my aim, and I will not do that. As I posted before, I do not want not only the editing war, but also war of any kind. As a confirmed fighter against wars and conflicts of any kind and proved peacemaker (people who knows me would tell you that) I give my best every time when there is a need to intervene and protect the weaker from the stronger. Also, unlike some others here, I respect other's opinions and beliefs. You asked for arguments Nado and I gave arguments enough. If you will persist and will not accept them, then I am not surprised. Secondly, I can see that I am alone here. Sadly, no one standing by my side. You two have remained persistently on your statements and me too on my own. I really do not have enough time and energy presently to waste here with you on this topic. But, as soon as I find free time for researching and writing, be sure that I am going to do true and relevant article about my own city and Sandzak and also about people who lives here, Bosniaks and Serbs who have been living in harmony together throughout centuries. And that would be my contribution. So, if Sandzak and my remarks have been only problem in your life, you can edit it as you like it. Every one will know that will not be true. And I will not edit anymore. Despite of your writing Sandzak shall exist and persist, among us and in our hearts. Someone has mentioned economy, that we had better talk about that issue. Good, I agree with them. Lets start, shall we? How is it possible that Novi Pazar, as a very young population, nowadays has one of the highest rate of unemployment in Europe? As I know more than fifty per cent is the rate of unemployment. Correct me if I am wrong. I think that is one form of discrimination over Sandzak, is not it? Good luck!!!Batokanda (talk) 21:31, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * To be clear, I am staying out of this particular issue. Nevertheless, in good faith I was just trying to mention that it would be cool if you people could expand this article focusing more on things that frow the light on the city of Novi Pazar. The article is almost a stub in my opinion. If there is anyone who is knowledgable about the city, please go ahead. --Comparativist1 (talk) 01:01, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, yeah, the weather is fine, kids are playing down the yard, everything is so cool etc. But what about nearly sixty per cent people deprived of job. The article is stub right because it was written by those who know little about Novi Pazar and Sandzak, or those whose aim was to hide facts and historical data concerning this region as they did try to hide it from the eyes of the world by removing it from school curriculum and hiding Pazar's and Bosniak's existence wherever it was possible. This turned out to be the issue but not on my intention, this is the real issue here.

I will repeat once again, as soon as possible I am going to do a research and to write and a good article with many references, richer content etc. Regards!Batokanda (talk) 08:23, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The real issue here is to write a good article about Novi Pazar, the city itself. Good weather or politics is not something I'm personally into, sorry. --Comparativist1 (talk) 11:05, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Really? I do not know what good article should be. Would you be so good as to tell us? In my opinion, things I have edited in the article are very important to Bosniaks. That's why I reacted. And I do not find necessary to explain anything about Novi Pazar. Unlike many others here who cannot stand it, Novi Pazar dwells in my heart, mind etc.; I breathe it every day and night.Batokanda (talk) 09:24, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Batokanda.
 * If you present sources and links to wikipedia rules your arguments would be stronger.
 * I.e. there is a wikipedia guideline about alternative names which says: Local official names should be listed before other alternate names if they differ from a widely accepted English name. That means that alternative name on Bosnian language is actually supported by wikipedia guideline because if I am not wrong, Bosnian language is local official language, besides Serbian, in Novi Pazar.
 * There is no need to comment on other contributors. It is actually forbidden according to wikipedia policy WP:NPA which says "Do not make personal attacks anywhere in Wikipedia. Comment on content, not on the contributor. Personal attacks do not help make a point; they only hurt the Wikipedia community and deter users from helping to create a good encyclopedia.".
 * I am glad that you are willing to improve this article. If you need any help please feel free to contact me.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 09:09, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

General Zivkovich
" In 1912, when the invading Serbian Ivan army entered Novi Pazar, General Zivkovich ordered the massacre of all Albanian inhabitants under the principle of solitudinem facing pacem appellant. The former Sanjak of Novi Pazar contained a large number of Albanians and Muslim Slavs with a differing culture of the Serbs. "

- The latin terms translates to "We make a desert and thus we make peace" meaning that the Serbian army massacred the Albanian population of Novi Pazar. --Albanian Historian (talk) 17:11, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

No book says any such thing. 23 editor (talk) 18:58, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes it does. Link: https://books.google.se/books?id=DziCAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT231&dq=Arnaut+albanian&hl=sv&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiax9fP6OLKAhVIiCwKHeHrAwUQ6AEIMDAB#v=onepage&q=Arnaut%20albanian&f=false

https://books.google.se/books?id=DziCAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT231&dq=Arnaut+albanian&hl=sv&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiax9fP6OLKAhVIiCwKHeHrAwUQ6AEIMDAB#v=onepage&q=Arnaut%20albanian&f=false

--Albanian Historian (talk) 11:37, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The reference does not say what you claim. It says nothing about general Z giving an order of "pacification" (or of a massacre). The citation refers to a report from a journalist describing the atrocities of war. It is the journalist that uses the Latin quotation, and this can of course not be used as a source for a specific description of the actions of the general (or the army). This should be obvious to someone calling themselves a "Historian". Apart from that, the suggested sentence is full of errors: The citation refers to when the army entered the Sandjak of Novi Pazar, not the city this article is about. The name of the army is wrong. The Latin quote is wrong.
 * But the main thing is that the suggested sentence is inadmissible. Please read the guidelines about original research and synthesis. --T*U (talk) 14:02, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Sources for your claims that the latin quote is wrong, although its spelled solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant its still refers to the translation "We make peace by making a desert" referring to a massacre. I'd like you to describe exactly what isn't true. This is a third-party source and it describes the Serbian armys actions in the city or the sandzjak for the region. There is nothing unreliable about this, unless you can specifiy with something that proves that it is. --Albanian Historian (talk) 14:37, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
 * You seem to have got the point, since you have changed the text and corrected the errors. Now the problem is another: The text you have added is violation of copyright, since it is a direct quote from the source. Please remove it and rewrite it before you readd it. Read WP:COPYVIO. --T*U (talk) 14:56, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:21, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Novi Pazar 1944. Mitingu i parë pas Luftë së II Botërore, qytetarët me plisa të bardhë.jpg (discussion)
 * Pazar i Ri, Novi Pazar ,(Yeni Bazar) 1942.jpg (discussion)
 * Pzari i Ri dikurë.JPG (discussion)
 * Shkolla Fillore në N. Pazar viti 1942.png (discussion)