Talk:Nueva Germania

Old comments
This article says that Mr. Förster shot himself, but Bernhard Förster says that he poisoned himself. Which is correct?

Herzliyya 20:18, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Ben Macintyre's book says poison.

--Pariah Press 22:43, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Earlier this year I visited the room at beautiful old Hotel del Lago in San Bernardino (a suburb of Asunción), where "Förster's stiffening corpse was found by a terrified maid" (Macintyre). Bernhard Förster had injected himself with a combo of morphine, to which he was addicted, and strychnine. Incidentally, though Förster's storied upper floor death chamber has a lovely arboreal view and private veranda, Hotel del Lago has been using it for over a century now to house janitorial supplies.—Trithemian | an herzliyyaball: morphine/strychnine  10:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Friedrich Nietzsche and Aryan superiority
Why does the article claim that "the purpose of founding a colony [was to] put to practice the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche and the musician Richard Wagner about the superiority of the Aryan race." Nietzsche had no theories on the superiority of the Aryan race. Read the wikipedia article on Nietzsche.Óli Gneisti (talk) 11:08, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Changed "Together with 14 German families arrived until the heart of the Paraguayan rainforest with the purpose of founding a colony where they could put to practice the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche and the musician Richard Wagner about the superiority of the Aryan race." to omit the reference to Wagner and Nietzsche. My reason for removing Wagner is that someone who thinks the colony was built on the ideas of Nietzscne might also be wrong about Wagner though the latter was anti-semetic.Óli Gneisti (talk) 15:24, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Inbreeding
I vaguely remember from a TV documentary that the genetic defects were due to the colonists not intermarrying with the locals - there were cases of children born with webbing between the fingers and other abnormalities. This is because of the small number of separate families from Germany - a high proportion of them have the surname Schubert. The article says that the defects are a result of intermarrying with locals. Anyone know which is right? --Squiddy | (squirt ink?)  10:07, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I once read in The Times newspaper in the mid 1990's that several were deaf due to inbreading and they were opposed to cross-breading with the Paraguayans. --Homer slips. 17:47, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Some of the families integrated and others did not. Many of the families that maintain their German identity live on farms outside of town. The families that live in town are generally quite "Paraguayan" speak more Guarani than German and have intermarried with locals. I did work at the elementary school last year. You could tell some of the fairer skinned kids from wealthy families had German ancestry, but others had German surnames, especially Baukloh, who had dark feature and came or came from poor families. To the best of my knowledge the Schuberts are a more recent arrival, but I'm not sure. Dardanelle (talk) 20:04, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

It seems the Mengele did spend some time in Nueva Germania, but his home was in Honhenau,Paraguay. The source that was given was a book, I got at the library and on the page that was quoted in said he lived in New Bavaria. Which was shown to be a mistake.

"- Og der er casa de Mengele, peker han før vi skilles.

En teglsteinshaug fra huset, noen grapefrukttrær på en tomt som jungelen har absorbert. Det er restene av et av SS-legens ukjente gjemmesteder. Jaget for krigsforbrytelser hadde han en rekke alias og skjulesteder. Han fikk paraguayansk statsborgerskap med sitt rette navn i 1959 og det antas at han ble beskyttet av Alfredo Stroessner, landets tyskættede president.

Annenhver person her nevner Mengele. Ingen nevner hans menneskeeksperimenter. Et feilstavet gateskilt, «Elizabeth NigtzChen», er et vink om en mørklagt historisk arv."

"Magdalena Fischer forteller om herr Brandt, lege og reisende i jordbruksmaskiner, som ankom på 1950-tallet.

- Han bodde hos min svoger og reiste rundt her for å pleie fattige tyskere. Etter 1960 forsvant han. Mannen var Josef Mengele. Mengele skal særlig ha brydd seg om barna, de blonde og blåøyde resultatene av eksperimentet Nye Germania. Kanskje så han sin drøm om renraset avl realisert i Nye Germania." - Tchernobog —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.108.178.252 (talk) 21:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Failed?
Well maybe in the sense that they didn't expand and take over Latin America, but if there are still a couple of hundred people there compared to most cults that seems to be a success. Should be more on what actually happened after 1899.Lycurgus 22:56, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Google Maps show no building structure in Nueva Germania (information deleted without reason)
"As of October 2008, the view of Nueva Germania on Google Maps/Google Earth (a satellite picture) shows no buildings or structures in the area marked as Nueva Germania. There is a link to this Wikipedia entry on Google Maps, but no photos are included on Nueva Germania. Two groupings in a near by areas do show a small number (3 or 4) building structures, but it is not possible to discern the nature of these structures with the current level of zoom on Google Maps."

I added the above information and it was quickly deleted without any reason given. I invite anyone to go to Google Maps and Google Earth and look at the satellite picture for yourself. I don't know what it means that there are no building structures in Nueva Germania at this time. Maybe the structures that had been there have been removed or maybe there has not been an structure there for many years? It is rash to assume there is a colony currently living in Nueva Germania when the satellite photos show otherwise. Google map shows an empty field. Even if Google Maps is challenged by Wikipedia users and proven to be incorrect, the information may still be helpful to readers. I would like the user who deleted this information to please give justification for the deletion. Trustobama21 (talk) 02:23, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The reason that I deleted the information is that any research you do yourself over Google Maps counts as original research. Unless someone reports in a reliable source that one cannot see buildings on Google Maps, or that there are no buildings, verifiability means that we cannot include it in a Wikipedia article.   RJC  TalkContribs 02:48, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Google isn't perfect. I took a look myself and found that a few kilometers east is the town of Lima. Rather than placing the town marker at the central crossroads, Google places it in a field a kilometer or so away. There might be some wisdom in deleting the coordinates if tey aren't verifiable fomr a non-Google source. ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 06:57, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Well thanks for blocking my user name in a effort to suppress what I have to say. I had to create a new user name to even post. All I can say is if there was a colony there, either a news crew or even a guide book would have something in there about. If one attempts to do research there is only strange unverifiable sources about Nueva Germania available. I am not saying the Google Maps proves there is nothing there. I am only reporting what I see on Google maps at the current time. Why does the Lonely Planet Guide book have nothing about Nueva Germania? I also read online in a blog that only 14 families settled there. This could explain why they all left or moved to other parts of South America. However, this inaccurate article claims there is a museum present with no proof of that what so ever. Yet, that unprovable fact is allowed to stay put while my correct observation that Google Maps shows no structures is removed. If it makes you happy to believe Nueva Germania is filled with happy smiling Aryans then there is nothing that can be done to convince you otherwise. I did suggest the location on Google Maps could be wrong, and other buildings are near by.Timewilltell567812 (talk) 18:50, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * FYI, your old account was blocked because the name violated the username policy. The admin who did that has nothing to do with this article. Regarding the information you found in Google, that counts as "original research". If I flew to the jungle and found 14 people who claimed to be Aryans, and then I tried to add that information to the article, it would be deleted too. On the other hand, if Lonely Planet writes that they visited the coordinates and found nothing there then we could report that. But we can't use their omission to say that, since it isn't in the guidebook, it doesn't exist. For more information, see Wikipedia No original research. ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 20:04, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

All those statistics about the population come from a guide book and they refer not to Nueva Germania but to Paraguay over all. So, the entire article except for the history part is bogus. The book that said Mengele lived there, said he lived in Nueva Bavaria, not Nueva Germania, but no one bothered to look at the references. And it did not say he lived in Nueva Bavaria, what ever that is, but merely passed through. The so called photos from the “photojournalist” include no photos of importances, but a telephone with a lock on and a bunch of other stuff that signify nothing. The Walrus article is a joke. Anyone can find a photo of an old person and write an article, saying whatever. I have yet to see any proof of anything in Nueva Germania. I look forward to some reputable research in the future.Timewilltell567812 (talk) 03:29, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

So I lived there for 10 months last year. There are definately buildings. Google maps still has two Nueva Germanias for some reason. I guess I'll look into getting that fixed. The actual Nueva Germania is the one to the west. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=nueva+germania&hl=en&ll=-23.903102,-56.641045&spn=0.189896,0.338173&geocode=+&hnear=Nueva+Germania,+San+Pedro,+Paraguay&t=h&z=12 Dardanelle (talk) 20:09, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Nueva Germania bleeds into San Pedro
This entry is supposed to be about Nueva Germania, but ends up being much about San Pedro province. This is bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.31.55.175 (talk) 20:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Not a colony
This was founded as a German settlement. It was not controlled by Germany, but a place where ethnic Germans lived in Paraguay.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:49, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Interesting article
Asociación Cultural Mandu’arã 7 Julai 2021 · ROBERT EBERHARD VON FISCHER-TREUENFELD Robert nació en Thorn, Alemania, el 7 de febrero de 1835, donde su padre fue juez del distrito. Estudió Ingeniería en el Politécnico de Berlín y trabajó en Siemens & Halske en Berlín desde 1860, luego fue a la sucursal de Siemens Brothers en Londres en 1861, donde se especializó en el entonces nuevo campo de la ingeniería eléctrica. Después de trabajar temporalmente como ingeniero gubernamental en la República de Haití (1861-1862), Fischer construyó una línea telegráfica entre Crookhaven y Cork para Siemens y Reuter en Irlanda en 1863, que estaba especialmente destinada a transmitir telegramas de la Guerra Civil de Americana. En 1864, es contratado por el Gobierno paraguayo para la construcción de un sistema de telecomunicación. Para el 16 de octubre de ese año ya había puesto en funcionamiento la primera línea del servicio telegráfico del país, que se abrió entre Villeta y Asunción. Pronto cambiaron sus condiciones de trabajo debido a la guerra contra la Triple Alianza, Robert al igual que otros extranjeros contratados fueron puestos bajo la administración militar. En los años de guerra, los telégrafos sirvieron como enlace entre el cuartel general y las tropas de combate, y Fischer, como jefe de los telégrafos de campo, tuvo que soportar todas las dificultades de la guerra. El bloqueo que sufrió el Paraguay durante la contienda, hizo que los paraguayos realizaran verdaderas proezas en la búsqueda de soluciones de los innumerables problemas que se presentaban todos los días. Uno de ellos era la falta de papel de imprenta para la edición de periódicos y de telegramas. El encargado de solucionar el inconveniente que representaba la escasez de papel fue el ingeniero von Fischer Treuenfeld. Para la elaboración de papel, primero trabajó en los arsenales y posteriormente, en las inmediaciones del Ferrocarril Central. Treuenfeld probó una serie de maderas blandas y de pequeños arbustos, hasta dar con las fibras de caraguatá, lo que finalmente dio los primeros resultados positivos. La maquinaria para la fabricación de papel fue instalada -bajo la dirección del técnico teutón y del inglés John Taylor-, por un hábil maestro carpintero, don Manuel Antonio Báez, con quien colaboraron un capataz, un maquinista y otros operarios auxiliares. Esta modesta fábrica papelera llegó a producir mil pliegos semanales, con los que se llegó a cubrir muchas de las necesidades del gobierno y, en 1867, las necesidades de papel para la prensa de trinchera. Sus esfuerzos, y los de sus asistentes paraguayos, permitían a López mantener contacto simultáneamente con el frente, la capital y todos los principales campamentos militares en Paraguay. Cuando el comando se había desintegrado en Lomas Valentinas y con esta confusión, muchos soldados habían abandonado sus puestos, la gente que permanecía cautiva desde antes de la caída de Humaitá recuperó inesperadamente su libertad cuando sus guardias simplemente los dejaron para huir del avance aliado. En la estampida final, el doctor Stewart (quien eligió no acompañar a Madame Lynch en su fuga), el coronel Wisner, el arquitecto británico Alonzo Taylor, el telegrafista alemán Robert von Fischer-Treuenfeld y un número sustancial de mujeres y niños también habían sido dejados atrás. Fischer fue a Argentina, después de curado una lesión en el pie en Buenos Aires, construyó el primer telégrafo que conectaba a Argentina y Chile a través de los Andes, y en 1872 el primer telégrafo nacional de Argentina. Fischer rechazó las ofertas del emperador Don Pedro II para ingresar a su servicio y escribir una historia de la guerra de Paraguay. Regresó a Alemania en 1872. Después de los años en América del Sur, Fischer vio su siguiente tarea la introducción de las comunicaciones en la guerra moderna y con su trabajo llamó la atención del mariscal de campo prusiano Helmuth Graf von Moltke (1800-1891). Fischer desarrolló y mejoró el encendido eléctrico remoto, el sistema de torpedos y como área principal el sistema de telégrafo. Muchas de las ideas de Fischer se introdujeron en varios ejércitos fuera de Alemania, contra los cuales se resistió el liderazgo militar alemán, pero no fue hasta 1899 que se establecieron batallones de telégrafos separados en el ejército teutón. En 1896 Fischer se mudó a Londres, donde fue nombrado cónsul en 1898 y cónsul general del Paraguay en 1900. Desde Londres, asesoró al gobierno de Paraguay en cuestiones financieras y técnicas y también asesoró a emigrantes alemanes, algunos de los cuales vivían en colonias cerradas en Paraguay. A pesar del sufrimiento experimentado en la Guerra de Paraguay, Fischer habló y escribió constantemente para el país y lo presentó en Alemania especialmente en "Paraguay en palabras e imágenes" (1903. Segunda edición extendida 1906). Publicó algunos libros sobre su experiencia en el país, exaltando las bondades del país y refiriéndose a muchos aspectos del Paraguay de posguerra, como Paraguay in wort und bild, publicado en Berlín, en 1906, y El Chaco y el litigio de límites entre Paraguay y Bolivia, publicado en 1904. Falleció en Dresden, el 29 de diciembre de 1907. Extraído por Angel Piccinini de: Diario Histórico del Paraguay 1451-2016 – Luis Verón / Apuntes para la Historia de las Telecomunicaciones en el Paraguay 1864-1964 de Manuel Guanes Molinas /Thomas Whigham "La Guerra de la Triple Alianza" Tomo II y III. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.53.214.86 (talk) 04:41, 15 November 2023 (UTC)