Talk:Nulhegan Band of the Coosuk Abenaki Nation

Potential copy vios and self promotion
Some of the content in the History section in this version https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nulhegan_Band_of_the_Coosuk_Abenaki_Nation&oldid=936114386 appears to be a cut and paste from https://www.facebook.com/aim.newhampshire/ as well as www.northlandjournal.com/stories/stories2 "Philip, Abenaki Indian Chief" (you need a paid subscription to view the article however if you google 'The 3,000 square miles included: from Umbagog and Mooselookmeguntic Lakes in the East (the headwaters of the Megalloway and Androscoggin Rivers; South to the junction of the Ammonoosuc with the Connecticut;' it will come up as content in that article. The entry for May 3rd, 2006 reads as promotional. None of the data is sourced, there is no way to know if it is Nulhegan specific. The Culture and Traditions section as well as the Government section is not sourced. The total lack of sourcing along with the potential copy vios leaves me wondering if the content in the History section should be hidden. I have reached out to the editor AlnobakHistorian (talk) on their talk page, hopefully we can get this all sorted out :) Indigenous girl (talk) 00:53, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

There is also content from here https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/7751/3fcf2d74c3664655095ccb58974494ec66a6.pdf in a foot note on page 206 regarding Winter 1783-1784 indicating it was taken from page 186 of the Gazetteer and Business Directory of Lamoille and Orleans Counties, VT., for 1883-84. Syracuse, NY: Journal Office. Indigenous girl (talk) 01:00, 17 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Earwig is being funky and not reading the pdf, and I can't see the paywall stuff, so I can't gauge how much of a copyvio this is, if it's a copyvio. If it's a copyvio I'll delete the revisions. If you get a result or percentage before I do, post the result here. If it's a copyvio, I suggest an official warning to the user who added it. ETA: Actually, the google test brought up enough overlapping text. It's a copyvio. - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 01:38, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
 * The copyvios actually start here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nulhegan_Band_of_the_Coosuk_Abenaki_Nation&oldid=936108775 as an IP edit and are modified after that. Indigenous girl (talk) 01:45, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Scholastic Claims
Note that there is quite a bit of scholastic discussion related to indigenous roots. Much of it originates in Canada and is related to First Nations rights.

There are lots of claims on "both sides of the fence" with neither side being able to conclusively prove their position. Therefore it is important that this Wikipedia page not make statements of fact regarding claims either way. DanCoutu (talk) 16:53, 29 March 2021 (UTC)


 * DanCoutu I don't think you really want to be using those sources to boost your claims. Things are not looking good for Seb and his counter parts are likely to fall in his wake with their faulty scholarship and claims that hurt actual Indigenous peoples, not folks with Indigenous ancestors 10 +/- generations back. https://buffalochronicle.com/2022/01/26/professors-identity-fraud-reveals-systemic-victimization-of-indigenous-people-in-academia/ Indigenous girl (talk) 01:18, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

At the time of my earlier comments, Seb's background was not known to me. I have revised my note about scholastic claims. White people (or colonizers of any type) making claims to either support or discredit native people is not appropriate. That behavior is an artifact of centuries of oppression and attempted genocide.

I see that the page content has been revised fairly recently and provides much better clarity in the controversy section. Thanks to whoever did that.

(I hope that I'm doing this right by simply editing the page, if there's a more proper way I'd like to learn.) DanCoutu (talk) 13:57, 29 January 2022 (UTC)


 * DanCoutu you need to sign your comments :) Articles need to be balanced. That includes controversy whether one agrees with it or not. It still needs to be documented. The article has been added to and is much more complete however the controversy section needs to stand because it exists. Anbenaki articles are not the only ones where situations like this are documented so Nulhegan members should not take it personally as it is not a personal attack, it's not an attack at all, it is simply recording instances of history regarding the band. Indigenous girl (talk) 08:00, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

I didn't know how to sign my comment, thanks for pointing that out, I think that I've figured it out. I understand about the need for balance and I totally support that. Part of the challenge, as I see it, is that Wikipedia requires external sources for everything and given the native tradition of oral history there's a procedural/cultural collision. So it is difficult to present information that is written nowhere else but which is nonetheless true. DanCoutu (talk) 13:57, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Native American, First Nations, and other Indigenous peoples of the Americas people are perfectly capable of writing and publishing our works. Scholars, such as Kim TallBear and Darryl LeRoux, are perfectly capable of writing scholarly and mainstream material addressing issues of Indigenous identity based on facts. The Wikipedia Teahouse is a good place to go to learn about how to contribute to the encyclopedia. Yuchitown (talk) 15:19, 29 January 2022 (UTC)Yuchitown

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