Talk:Nusantara (city)

History section is overwrought
Do we really need a fully in-depth explainer of the nuances of the Indonesian bureaucracy's decision-making process regarding this city that has not yet been built and could ultimately fail to come to fruition? Admirable effort to detail, and it is quite interesting, but does not necessarily provide an easy to understand summary of what's going on here.

Jondvdsn1 (talk) 09:50, 12 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Let it ride for a few months. On the ground knowledge I heard in Balikpapan in March says Ministry of Finance is due to relocate in August. As noted in this article, there is a lot of pressure on Jokowi to manifest something before his term limit expires early 2024. In addition, this is a major change for any country, and there should be some historical background -- see my recent edit debunking the assumption that Jokowi originated the idea. Doesn't seem too long to me, but certainly can be trimmed if and when the relocation actually starts to happen. Martindo (talk) 05:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Note
For the "Nusantara" Javanese script, please don't put it outside the Etymology section, Indonesia doesn't use Javanese script as its official script. Mhatopzz (talk) 14:33, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Unsourced informations among many other
@Thalialioo Please stop adding "official names", "mottos", logos, flags, or any other uncited stuff.

The "city" (which as we speak now) does not exist yet, it has no legal basis since the presidential decree on new capital nor the bill has been passed. So it cant have official name or official motto yet, let alone logo or flags. And do not add Javanese script too since it is not official script of the region right now nor the planned future capital. Nyanardsan (talk) 14:34, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Request
In order to avoid disambiguation, I suggest the article's name should be changed into "Nusantara, Indonesia" Instead of "Nusantara city or Nusantara (city)" Mhatopzz (talk) 23:34, 17 January 2022 (UTC)


 * @Mhatopzz Apologize, but I think Nusantara (city) is the best name for the article right now since in Indonesia itself, Nusantara has distinct meanings too so its important to point that it is a city. Nyanardsan (talk) 23:48, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't think putting parentheses in an article's title about Capital city would be appropriate, I saw some articles about capital city put coma between the capital's name and the country's name. For such example, take a look at San José, Costa Rica. Mhatopzz (talk) 23:55, 17 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I think even city is a misnomer at the moment, since there's actually no physical city located on the site. Nusantara (proposed city) would be better at the moment. As the city approaches completion, it can be Nusantara (city), and once it becomes the capital, Nusantara, Indonesia. Seloloving (talk) 04:59, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Additional reference
There may be some facts in this ABC News article that aren't yet in ours: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-30/what-will-happen-to-jakarta-when-indonesia-builds-a-new-capital/100784566 ⁓ Pelagic ( messages ) 03:10, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 27 May 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) C LYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 19:44, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

– The article on the city has far more views, and the soon-to-be capital city of Indonesia is clearly a more relevant term in English than a geographic concept that's only generally used in Southeast Asia. Chessrat ( talk, contributions ) 09:25, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Nusantara (planned city) → Nusantara
 * Nusantara → Nusantara (disambiguation)


 * Support per nom. 〜 Festucalex  •  talk  12:51, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, agree that the new capital is the primary topic. ITBF (talk) 14:22, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not the new capital yet - and may never be. Davidelit (Talk) 15:02, 3 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose As noted in Article and Talk, as well as related pages (e.g., Jokowi, the city is still under construction. The earliest any government office will be relocated there is August (Ministry of Finance is what I heard from several locals when in Balikpapan in March). I don't see any need to push the river here. Leave it as "planned city" and then make changes as necessary later in the year when the city is occupied (or not). However, changing the existing informal disambiguation page to a formal disambiguation page/link is a good idea. Martindo (talk) 07:40, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. Although I think it's a bit too soon, the new capital is the primary topic since the English-speaking world isn't familiar with the archipelagic term. Bluesatellite (talk) 12:02, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Calling it primary assumes it's the target of a search. In fact, searching "nusantara" reveals an airline, a TV station, a satellite, and a "national vision" (mentioned in the etymology section here) -- among others listed in disambiguation. And there is another problem with presuming that the parenthetical part is extraneous: nobody uses this name in Balikpapan. They all refer to it as IKN. So, if a foreigner has some acquaintance with current usage by Indonesians, he or she might not even hear the term "nusantara" and perhaps would search English WP for "planned city Indonesia" -- guess what the first hit is. Martindo (talk) 21:41, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Not sure where you're finding those search results but when I google "Nusantara" the results are all news articles about the city- and they refer to the city as simply "Nusantara" rather than anything more complex. Chessrat  ( talk, contributions ) 12:03, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Let's look at it this way, as an imaginary conversation:
 * "I heard that Indonesia is planning to move its capital city."
 * "Where?"
 * "I don't know, another island, I think."
 * "What's the name of the new capital?"
 * "I forgot."
 * "Let's look it up in wikipedia. Try INDONESIA PLANNED CAPITAL."
 * "Hey, there's the article!"
 * This kind of Request really needs to consider how the encyclopedia is used, not merely abstract esthetics of "clean up".
 * The keyword string Indonesia Planned Capital actually yields this article on its SECOND hit. However, I think it is a more likely search term than the one I proposed hypothetically in my rebuttal comment above. So how do I suggest an ALTERNATIVE in the Request process? I think we should change the parenthetical part of the article's title to (Planned Capital) because that is what is newsworthy, even though the issue of starting a *city* from scratch is an important part of the story. Martindo (talk) 01:26, 30 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose The city does not even exist yet, and it is by no means certain that it ever will. I think it should be kept as Nusantara (planned city) for now, then in the future it can be changed to Nusantara (city), Nusantara (former planned city) or Nusantara (abandoned city project) as appropriate. However I agree with making Nusantara a formal disambig page. Davidelit (Talk) 06:02, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose In fact, I'd argue the archipelago is primary by longterm significance and should be undisambiguated. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 17:03, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't see how Nusantara (archipelago) is primary over Wawasan Nusantara, much less a capital city. Walt Yoder (talk) 22:01, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose not yet. If it becomes the seat-of-government of Indonesia next year, then it will presumably be the primary topic then.  There isn't sufficient coverage yet. Walt Yoder (talk) 22:01, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support I thought I was going to oppose here, but the pageviews are crushing. Over the past 6 months, Nusantara has somewhere in the range of a little below 75% of the pageviews across (most) articles with Nusantara in their title (pageviews only allows 10 entries), and it's been solidly ahead in pageviews of everything else since early 2022, with the archipelago being the only article anywhere near it. That, plus the vast majority of google results on the front page on a browser I don't use being for the planned capital, and I think it's fairly obvious this is currently the primary topic. Skarmory   (talk •   contribs)  11:36, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose Too soon, a year too soon. A quick search shows that the city is still under initial development, and there is some uncertainty as to whether the next president will carry through the development of the planned city. I would consider a move request again either after the presidential elections in 2024 or there's some definitive and swift steps by the current administration to transplant some of the civil institutions over to cement the status of the new city, whichever comes first. – robertsky (talk) 15:29, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Any updates?
This planned city is supposed to be inaugurated in less than 4 weeks, but has dropped out of the news. The official website still has a "©2021 Copyright" notice. Is it still going ahead, or has it been quietly abandoned? Davidelit (Talk) 08:38, 25 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Inauguration is planned on 17 August 2024. Aotearoa (talk) 07:54, 26 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't know what kind of news that you frequented, but starting in 16 August the parliament will discuss the amendment(s) on the Law on State Capital. I also noticed that the Indonesian version of the official website already has "©2023 Copyright", while the English version do indeed still display the 2021 copyright. Jauhsekali (talk) 14:43, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 16 July 2024
– When this move was nominated a year ago, the primary reason against such move was that it was too soon with the city then only in its planning stages along with doubts whether or not the city would even be completed. Now, in about a month the city would become the new capital of Indonesia, which I argue would make it the primary topic. The city also gets significantly more views than other topics with such name. Zinderboff(talk) 16:10, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Nusantara (city) → Nusantara
 * Nusantara → Nusantara (disambiguation)


 * Support The planned city is certainly the primary topic, and it is effectively certain that the city will at least have some sort of administrative significance around the time it opens.  CROIX talk 21:04, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * No. Not yet. Please do not move it. Wait until the presidential decree on capital relocation is issued first. Mmnashrullah (talk) 08:18, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Wait until president issuing decree Great achievement (talk) 15:39, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Southeast Asia, WikiProject Cities, and WikiProject Indonesia have been notified of this discussion. RodRabelo7 (talk) 16:12, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Yes, it would be the primary topic in the future. But as of now, It's still too soon. Ckfasdf (talk) 16:34, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Weak support. It doesn't hinge on a presidential decree. It's about what people are primarily looking for when they type the name of a topic, and also long-term considerations (cf. the Java debate). Page views of the articles listed in the disambiguation page indeed indicate that the concrete place at this time already gets more attention than the somewhat abstract concept of Nusantara that is only known to people who have a deeper interest in the region. NB, I'm talking about the English-speaking world; for Indonesians, Nusantara is of course highly relevant and omnipresent, as a word and as a concept (I'd probably strongly !vote "oppose" if this were Indonesian Wikipedia). –Austronesier (talk) 17:17, 21 July 2024 (UTC)