Talk:O.K. Corral (building)

Origin of "O.K."
This discussion was moved from the Talk page of Btphelps:

Hi, you seem to have an interest in and fairly decent knowledge of old west history. With regard to the O.K. Corral article, can't you come up with something better than a tourist website for a source? The explanation you give seems tenuous as best, but using the etymology of the term O.K. content just screams of WP:SYNTH. I quoted an old west historian, and a respected one, Robert Bell. Your thoughts? --SChotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 02:28, 25 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Tourist site? Have you read the latest version? The author of the source cited is a PhD and the article, sourcing the phrase from the Choctaw language, is extremely credible. And in any case, where does Bob Bell get his info? — btphelps (talk to me) (what I've done) 08:08, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

In the first paragraph of the "Origins" section the last 2 paragraphs states, "John Montgomery adopted the phrase as part of his business name when he and Benson opened the business in 1879. Montgomery bought Benson out in 1882 and operated the business for at least another six years. " This is the "tourist website" and does not make a connection to the term O.K. or its etymology.

At that point the previous 2 sentences are interesting, but not related to the subject matter. As well sourced as it might be, this is WP:SYNTH and possibly WP:OR.

Robert Bell a.k.a. Bob Boze Bell is an artist and old west historian and one of the owners of True West magazine. He has spent decades researching and reviewing the original documents, memorabilia, and artifacts related to historical events. I have more faith in his research than a tourist website. --SChotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 15:16, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

BTW, I appreciate what you done with the article. I think its developed really nicely since I created it. --SChotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 15:19, 25 October 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm glad you like most of the contributions I made. We know when he bought the business he named it the OK Corral. That's pretty much indisputable.


 * With which source? I thought I had reviewed all of them and I can't find this. SC


 * I'm not sure what issue you are trying to resolve. Is it the explanation of OK in the Choctaw language? I don't think the article implies that Montgomery named it the OK Corral because he knew it was originally used by the Choctaw people.


 * If we have a source that says the name was given to the corral by a particular person, the etymology content is out of place and unneeded. SC


 * I believe the Choctaw reference establishes the most likely origins of the phrase in the context of the place and time. Not that Montgomery or Richardson might have known that origin. They got the name from someplace. They didn't invent the phrase.


 * Still doesn't matter, its extraneous and tangential at best. Just wikilink to the article on it OK and leave it at that. SC


 * I know who Bob Boze Bell is. Just because he says it's so, don't make it so. The origins of OK in the OK Corral name from "Old Kindersley" (sic?) that Bob Boze Bell asserts may not be based on anything more than his having made a passing effort to find the origins of the OK phrase. If you read the article on the source of the phrase OK i believe you will see that the origin in "old Kindersley" or a close phrase like it was commonly accepted for many years.Bob Boze Bell may have swallowed that tale. Can you find his source for his statement?


 * It was in Old West magazine about 10-12 yeas ago before he had any financial connection and was just a writer. I have the issue, but I'll have to locate it. Let's please not get into a debate over his credentials, the man deserves his own BLP article here. SC


 * "Montgomery ... opened the business in 1879. Montgomery bought Benson out in 1882 and operated the business for at least another six years." Is this the content you're trying to find a better source for? I bet you could find one. — btphelps (talk to me) (what I've done) 19:40, 25 October 2014 (UTC)


 * No, just the "he named it" part, I'd still like to see that source. --SChotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 19:41, 26 October 2014 (UTC)