Talk:O Canada/Archive 1

Date
I could be wrong here, but I have it written down that the anthem was adopted in 1967, not the written 1980.

Bumstead, J. M. The Peoples of Canada - A Post-Confederation History New York. Oxford Press: 2004.

Historical Lyrics
Weren't the lyrics changed around 1980? I believe before 1980, the lyrics were a little more towards the first verse of the poem (but not an exact match). Anyone know the details?

--Sdfisher 04:38, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Has anyone answered this question yet (just saw it a year later)? I remember this too -- growing up in the 80s there was a version we sang in school that removed the 'God' reference with a different line (and possibly the following line as well).  I remember that this version was never that well accepted and that it tended to be used only about half the time -- but there was definitely a 'godless' version in 80s that predates the 2000s example mentioned in the article.  194.176.201.10 10:45, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

O Canada 1927 version by Robert Stanley Weir (unofficial Canadian Anthem until 1980)

O Canada!

Our home and native land.

True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,

The True North strong and free!

And stand on guard, O Canada,

We stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, Glorious and free.

We stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee!

Robert Stanley Weir was a lawyer and the Recorder of the City of Montréal. His version was published for the Diamond Jubilee of Confederation in 1927, and had since been generally accepted as the official English speaking version until 1980.

Sung by English speaking schoolchildren throughout Canada prior to 1980, most people who grew up singing this version of O Canada deeply resented the change.

Bryan Adams, once, mistakenly sang the Weir version at an NHL Hockey game and received much flak from the Canadian media for not singing the newer official Anthem.

70.81.7.65 08:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Natives
From Anonymous, November 17, 2004

Hello, just wondering why some natives refuse to stand up for O Canada. I'm thinking it has something to do with the Boarding School scandals, but I don't know. I'm native myself, so.. eh.

Sorry if I did this wrong.


 * Couldn't tell you for certain as I'm not native, but I imagine it has to do with not recognizing the Canadian government's sovereignty, as a colonial power, etc. - Montr&eacute;alais 06:05, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

For one thing, the line "our home and native land" is considered offensive. Natives feel it is native land - their native land, not anyone elses. Women also dont like "in all our sons command" People talk about changing it but that wont please everyone either. Kismet (ottawa)

"Our home" excludes people only staying temporarily, and "native land" also excludes immigrants. Scott Gall 10:20, 23 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I can see many reasons why "native land" is objectionable. But I think it would be a bit much for any country to change to make their anthem to make it inclusive of temporary residents, who are presumably not citizens.  On the other hand, it's entirely reasonable for new Canadians to view their original country as "home", as I'm sure I would in similar circumstances. --Saforrest 12:36, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Other Verses
There are some additional verses but like those of other anthems they are poorly known and rarely sung.

Actually, this doesn't seem to be the case. The anthem has only one verse in both English and French. However, the poem that the English version was based on has several more verses; people sometimes use those as addition verses to the song, but they aren't really. --Stephen Gilbert

Mixing languages
In the 1980s it was common to mix the lyrics across languages, switching from English to French after the fourth line, then back to English after two lines in French.

I'm not so sure about that. I remember it going like this:

O Canada! Our home and native land! True patriot love in all thy sons command. Car ton bras sait porter l'épée, Il sait porter la croix! Ton histoire est une épopée Des plus brillants exploits. God keep our land glorious and free! O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

Two lines English, four lines French, last three English. --Stephen Gilbert


 * Correct. I was trying to remember how it went by singing it out loud at home -- good thing I'm single -- but now that I see it written down it's coming back. -- Paul Drye


 * I don't think switching languages mid-song has "fallen in disfavour" -- they do it at the Ottawa Senators games and I'm pretty sure they did it on Canada Day at Parliament Hill. (Personally, I really dislike switching in the middle. Toss a coin before the anthem to decide which language!). Dze27


 * Well, they stopped doing it at Toronto sporting events, and I understand that's also the case out west. Perhaps Ottawa is a special case. -- Paul Drye


 * There are several ways to mix. I have heard the above version when watching TV. I have heard of some other versions starting with English and switching to French to avoid "God keep our land". This is a wishful tense without "may" before "God".--Jusjih 15:37, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The Canadian Heritage Website http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/sc-cs/anthem_e.cfm#h2 links to an MP3 of a Bilingual version of "O Canada" with wording as above. Maybe this should be included on the page? Theducks (talk) 15:43, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Poem vs. Song
Moved to Talk:

SECOND VERSE
 * O Canada! Where pines and maples grow,
 * Great Praries spread, and lordly rivers flow.
 * How dear to us they broad domain,
 * From East to Western Sea!
 * Thy land of hope for all who toil,
 * Thou True North strong and free!

CHORUS

The anthem is typically sung without the second verse. 

The Government of Canada confirms that the official version is just one verse. As mentioned above, the poem by Weir had multiple verses.

FYI, both the English and French lyrics and melody are in the public domain. - Montréalais

Link
Link dead as of May 2003: http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/ceremonial-symb/english/emb_anthem.html


 * This link works: http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/sc-cs/anthem_e.cfm Alex756


 * Great. Added. --Menchi 21:23 May 5, 2003 (UTC)

"Foi"
It's stretching it a bit to claim that foi could "just as easily" be a secular faith -- the lyrics were written in the 19th century in Quebec for a society named after St. John the Baptist. They talk about carrying the cross. My aged memory also recalls that the religious reference in the English lyrics was added later than 1968, but my memory is aged. Jfitzg


 * Nice NPOV-ing. --Menchi 12:15 21 May 2003 (UTC)

Sons Command vs. Sons' Command
Jfitzg, you've added an apostrophe in the second reference to "sons command" (beside the feminists criticism). I actually did the exact same thing to the first reference of "sons command" earlier this month. But it just didn't sit well with me and after some research online and in print, I reverted it. In all but one incidence (online), there was no apostrophe.

This is because "command" is used as a verb to mean "deserve" here, not noun. The reason why the verb is placed in an exceptional order (SOV) is to rhyme with "land" from the first line. --Menchi 12:15 21 May 2003 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the compliment above. Thanks for the explanation of "in all thy sons command," too. I suppose if I'd parsed the sentence I could have figured it out by myself, but there you are. Your interpretation is obviously correct when you actually think, so thanks for thinking for me. Jfitzg


 * A weird sentiment, though, eh? A political abstraction is supposed to command love in its "sons". I suppose it's no weirder than the idea of l'épopée des plus brillants exploits, though. Jfitzg


 * Well, a beautiful idea can command (inspire) respect/admiration, why not love? And aren't most epics composed of wonderful deeds? - Montréalais


 * You're right that command can mean 'inspire, and in a completely admirable way, but what were the plus brillants exploits Lavallée was talking about? Perhaps it was the founding of Quebec, but although it's nothing to sniff at it doesn't seem to qualify as brilliant. Thanks for clarifying command for me; perhaps you can clarify brillants as well. Jfitzg


 * After further thought I decided that since brillant can mean shining maybe that's what Lavallée meant by it. Well, I feel better about my national anthem now. If they'd just take the religion out of it everything would be perfect. Jfitzg


 * I always thought it was "all thy Son's command," and was referring to Christianity somehow...as in "there is patriotism in all the land ruled by Jesus," or something.

Unofficial French
Does it make sense to have the full version of the original French poem, which has no official status? - Montréalais

"la foi"
Since it is "la foi", should it not be "trempée" not "trempé".

Could this typo have escaped your attention or am I misreading?

Grandson of Verchères.


 * trempé(e) modifies valeur, not foi ("ta valeur trempée de foi", otherwise put); but it's feminine anyway. I'll change it. - Montréalais

Oh vs. O
For the copy editors and fact checkers of the world, could someone please mention in the article that it's definitely "O" and not "Oh"--right? jengod 03:00, Jan 29, 2004 (UTC)

official version
An anonymous user put in the entire texts of the original poems under "official version." Those aren't the official versions of the anthem; merely two poems upon which the official versions are based. If they are going to be included (a measure whose utility I question), it should be in a separate section. - Montr&eacute;alais 01:55, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Inuktitut Gloss
Can somebody provide an Inuktitut gloss, too? Circeus 01:14, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)

Moved from User_talk:Diderot
Hi, on the O Canada page there is the Inuktitut version of the national anthem there. I don't know if this is an "official" translation. Could you check it out as best you can and see if it is the same as the English or French versions, and if not maybe give an English translation? From what I can tell from the living dictionary it's seems sort of the same, but I couldn't find very many of the words.


 * O'Kanata nangmini Nunavut
 * Piqujatii / Nalattiaqpavut
 * Angiglivaliajuti sangijulutillu
 * Nanqipugu / O'Kanata
 * Mianiripluti
 * O'Kanata nunatsia
 * Nangiqpugu mianiripluti
 * O'Kanata salagijauquna

This version was probably taken from this web page.

I also found the first two lines in Inuktitut on another website, except they're very different =P.


 * Uu Kanata, Nunavut taimanngat
 * Najuqtavut, Ungagijaavut

--Ben 01:49, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Ben,

I doubt that there is an "official" Inuktitut translation, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if more than one translation was extant. The one you found here looks like a medley of Inuktitut, French and English, which strikes me as the most likely candidate for "official compromise version used in state ceremonies" for officially trilingual Nunavut. I don't live in Iqaluit, but "Nunavut taimanngat" sounds familiar to me.

I'm kinda on an impromptu hiatus right now, and I want to warn you, my Inuktitut sucks ass. But I'll give it my best shot. I'm mostly using dictionaries and corpora to do this - not native knowledge.

For the two line Inuktitut section you quoted last, I'd translate it word for word like this:

Uu Kanata, Nunavut taimanngat O Canada, our land always Najuqtavut, Ungagijaavut our pride   the thing we are strongly attaching ourselves to

A more syntactically correct literal translation might be something like:

O Canada, our home forever Our pride and what we hold dear

For the longer version:

O'Kanata nangmini       Nunavut O Canada the very thing our land Piqujatii             Nalattiaqpavut to its commands/laws  we listen good Angiglivaliajuti sangijulutillu  (I think this should be Angigliva ll iajuti sa nng ijulutillu) its growth      and its strength Nanqipugu   O'Kanata (This should be Na ngiq pugu. It's a typo.) we stand up O Canada Mianiripluti to guard O'Kanata nunatsia O Canada beautiful land (nunatsia is the same as Nunatsiaq, the Northwest Territories) Nangiqpugu  mianiripluti we stand up to guard O'Kanata salagijauquna O Canada overcome challenges?

The last word is really hard. The contexts where I find the root "saligi" refer to challeges, achivement and assistance, but I can't quite figure out the morphology. I'm not really sure about the morphology of mianiripluti either, but the root mianiri definitely means to guard, to watch over, to supervise and to manage. The rest I feel pretty good about. I warned you I couldn't speak Inuktitut.

So, you might put it as:

O'Kanata nangmini Nunavut Our very own land Piqujatii Nalattiaqpavut To its commands, we listen closely Angiglivalliajuti sanngijulutillu It's growth and its strength Nangiqpugu O'Kanata We stand, O Canada Mianiripluti On guard O'Kanata nunatsia O Canada, beautiful land Nangiqpugu mianiripluti We stand on guard O'Kanata salagijauquna O Canada, to meet challenges

I corrected the Inuktitut typos on O Canada.

The lack of confirmation of the text as "offical" merits some note. However, the long version of the lyrics seems to have originated on a defunct page run by a teacher at the Leo Ussak school in Rankin Inlet. I suspect that it's therefore an authentic but informal translation. For the short version, it's plausible that it's in some way official, but I can't find anything about it.

You decide what to do about it. I'll write up the Inuktitut in syllabics if you want, but I'm not sure you should trust an amateur translation like the one I've given you enough to put it on the page.

Diderot 10:22, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Cool! Thanks Diderot! --Ben 21:41, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

South Park?
Why does South Park deserve mention here?

Original poem by Weir
The text there is repetitive of the opening. I think it should be shortened, maybe deleted. Lee S. Svoboda 02:29, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

"Official" Versions of O Canada
There appears to be some confusion regarding the "official" status of various versions of O Canada throughout Canadian history. To clarify the point, many versions were written and sung, and several changes were made. However, no version of O Canada was ever official until our constitution was signed in 1980. At that time, some changes were made (ex. "From far and wide" and "God keep our land").

For a full history of O Canada, visit Canadian Heritage (National Anthem: O Canada), which I have added to the External Links.

Brent Woods 01:06, 20 November 2005 (UTC)


 * If I'm not mistaken, there is no direct connection between the adoption of O Canada as national anthem and the patriation of the constitution. In fact, the adoption of O Canada came first.  HistoryBA 03:53, 20 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Oops! You are right. I researched this further and found that the National Anthem Act was in 1980, and the Constitution Act was in 1982.  I stand corrected.  Brent Woods 06:46, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Connection with Die Zauberflöte
When I came back here and discovered the claim about Lavallée having been inspired by Die Zauberflöte, I was pretty confident it was garbage: if such a link could really be shown, I'd have heard about it.

Then I listened to March of the Priests, and aftr hearing it is pretty easy to believe that could've been Lavallée's inspiration. Very interesting.

That said, a piece of interesting speculative trivia like this probably shouldn't be featured so early on, and it would be nice to get a reference to attribute this idea to as well. (I don't consider either of these bad enough to justify the claim's removal, however.) --Saforrest 12:28, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The beginning four-note motif is the same, and 7 out of the first 8 notes are the same note-for-note. The melody structure is similar. I'm not sure how many professional composers in the 19th century had not heard of Mozart's popular opera. Shawnc 12:10, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Note: Today, I heard Liszt's Festklänge, a symphonic poem (S.101, R.418) on NPR that very clearly had the "O Canada" theme in it throughout. It is note for note identical through "o canada, my home and native land" and stays close for another line or 2. It can most clearly be heard at the end. I think that this is the inspiration.

German version:

Ach Kanada! Unser Heim und Nation! Echt patriot Liebe in all dein Sohnen command. Mit glowing hearts wir seh dich rise, Das Echtes Nord strong und frei! From far and wide, Ach Kanada, Wir stand on guard für dich. Gott keep unser land glorious und Frei! Ach Kanada, wir stand on guard für dich! Ach Kanada, wir stand on guard für dich! I have started attempting to create German lyrics for this ol' anthem of Canada's (Kanada) but I could complete it, could someone else? Myrtone@O Canada.com.au

to whomever removed 'The Simpsons' details
Aarrrgh..! Yet more time spent inputing work at the website undone and not for the better. Who ever removed the quick mention of 'O Canada' being used in an episode of 'The Simpsons' has really ******* me off. The episode in question most certainly DID NOT spoof the anthem but used it is a highly respectful and deeply touching manner. So whoever you are who did this revert or just simply undoen my work with your own interpretation.. you are 100% wrong. I have ***** had it with this site.. not this page.. this site. The only reason i dont delete my account right now is I cannot be ******* bothered inputting 2 more minutes of my spare time here. The ******** who populate this place are ***** legion. Dirk Diggler Jnr 02:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * It takes much less time to revert than to rant. Don't get mad, get even. 0:) Wahkeenah 02:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * A tirade does not accomplish anything. It would be helpful if you could review the policies at Assume good faith, No personal attacks and Civility. If you strongly disagree with an edit made by another user, revert the change and leave a (civil) note explaining your action on their talk page.  If the two of you continue to disagree, seek consensus on this discussion page.  --Skeezix1000 12:43, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * What I can suggest is move the information to the article on that specific episode and perhaps link it to here. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 02:15, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

translation of the french version.
"Il sait porter l'épée." Il sait porter la croix."

This was translated incorrectly, I think. The nuance doesn't suggest "can carry", which makes little sense, but that Canada "has carried our 'sword', and has borne our 'cross'" in the repeated defense of our 'new' nation. Think 1812 and WWI. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 156.34.13.246 (talk • contribs).


 * I read it as: "It (Canada) knows (how) to wield the sword, it (Canada) knows (how) to bear the cross." Jonathan David Makepeace 20:29, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

The French "Car ton bras sait porter l'épée" is translated as: "Though your arm knows how to bear the sword". To the best of my knowlege, "car" can only be translated as "because". I think "though" is a wrong translation, but my french isn't perfect so someone else should see if it needs changing.

TV Show
Should there be some kind of comment regaurding the O Canada TV show? Here is more information (I barely know how to edit wikipedia, otherwise I would do it myself)

O Canada IMDB listing
 * I remember the show, but I am not sure how to tie it in. I am thinking about making a page listing the various meanings of O Canada. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 17:02, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Native?
When they say native in the national anthem, are they referring to the descendants of European settlers or are they talking about the actual natives, the people who were here first?


 * Methinks the author was using "native" in the strict sense of "the land in which one was born," whether one be big-N Native or not. Jonathan David Makepeace 20:27, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Artists
A list of artists who have recorded it, and the albums it appears on would be useful. Tim Long 19:18, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * We have some, but there are plenty of artists who have sung it, recorded it, been on CD's, that the list will be too hard to maintain. I do not think this is a good idea at all. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:36, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

O Canada
Can someone email me the French lyrics of the SECOND verse to O Canada? Thanks! Labk1@hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.251.145.195 (talk) of 06.11.06 - moved from top of the page to the end
 * I am not sure. Perhaps you may find them here: O Canada. I am sending you the e-mail. --Bhadani 15:48, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Copy of my e-mail

hi

French version.

The 1st verse is the official anthem of the french-speaking canadiens. O Canada! Terre de nos aïeux, Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux! Car ton bras sait porter l'épée, Il sait porter la croix! Ton histoire est une épopée Des plus brillants exploits. Et ta valeur, de foi trempée, Protégera nos foyers et nos droits Protégera nos foyers et nos droits. Sous l'œil de Dieu, près du fleuve géant, Le Canadien grandit en espérant, Il est né d'une race fière, Béni fut son berceau; Le ciel a marqué sa carrière Dans ce monde nouveau. Toujours guidé par Sa lumière, Il gardera l'honneur de son drapeau, Il gardera l'honneur de son drapeau. De son patron, précurseur du vrai Dieu, Il porte au front l'auréole de feu; Ennemi de la tyrannie, Mais plein de loyauté, Il veut garder dans l'harmonie Sa fière liberté. Et par l'effort de son génie, Sur notre Sol asseoir la vérité, Sur notre Sol asseoir la vérité! Amour sacré du trône et de l'autel Remplis nos cœurs de ton souffle immortel. Parmi les races étrangères Notre guide est la foi; Sachons être un peuple de frères, Sous le joug de la loi; Et répétons comme nos pères Le cri vainqueur: «Pour le Christ et le Roi» Le cri vainqueur: «Pour le Christ et le Roi».


 * http://www.nationalanthems.us/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1087857102

perhaps it is ok - I am not sure as I do not know French.

--Bhadani 15:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The second stanza should be floating around on Wikisource User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Official Lyrics
Under the heading "Official lyrics" there appears to be some unecessary ranting. If it could be removed and replaced by the actual lyrics that would be spectacular. Thanks.

Jordan
 * I do not see the ranting at all, unless it was removed earlier. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 05:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks its cleared up now. It was just needless anti-canadian pro-american nonsense. Jordan

No spaces before exclamation marks in the French lyric
suggests that there are no spaces before exclamation marks in the French lyric. Is this the typical way to write Canadian French (fr-CA)? Generally French French (fr-FR) requires a space before an exclamation mark.--Jusjih 16:00, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Bryan Adams
I see no mention here of the late 90s controversy where Bryan Adams "screwed up" the national anthem at a public performance. (I tragically don't recall the year, or where and when the performance took place). I do remember that in the days after the incident it was revealed that Adams was singing the "old" lyrics (pre-1960-whatever). Don't know if its worth a mention. Certainly was more widely reported than a girl singing it in an unofficial language.
 * If you can find sources. It can be added to the article.--Crossmr 13:28, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Bryan Adams sang the unofficial Robert Stanley Weir version that we were all required to learn as schoolchidren prior to 1980.

70.81.7.65 08:49, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Original song
Under the History section, it states that:

"The original song has three additional verses, but these are rarely sung."

That statement is correct, but how can these three extra verses be in English if the song was written by Calixa Lavellée for the St-Jean-Baptiste day celebration in 1880!?

"O Canada" is the national anthem of Canada. Calixa Lavallée composed the music in 1880 as a patriotic song ..."

Shouldn't that text rather list the 3 extra verses in French!? Or rather say that "both the original song and its English translation have three extra verses... Here are these three extra verses from the English version of the song." - or something like that.


 * Perhaps Calixa Lavallée spoke english?! Graldensblud 21:05, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * There are parts of quebec which are predominantly english, as well many irish orphans were adopted by french parents and took french names though they were english. Someone would have to look in to this.--Crossmr 00:00, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

in all thy sons command and God keep our land
Does anyone remember in the late 80s or early 90s when the second line became "True patriot love in all our hearts command"?

I thought it was an official change to make the some 'mutually inclusive' of men and women. But I see now that it's officially "in all thy sons command".

Also, in response to someone else that was asking about the God and God-less versions.

Yes, as a kid in the 80s, I do remember seeing "O Canada" and "God keep our land" both in brackets and one in a subscript while the other in a superscript to denote either as an option.

Vandalisation
Someone apparently sees fit to continue vandalising the rarely-sung second and third verses, thinking that it's funny to insert the lyrics to "Ice Ice Baby" in instead. Thought you all might like to know. By the way, it doesn't really matter. If someone wants to show such disrespect to the Canadian anthem, I can certainly take the time to sit here and revert this article all day. 72.185.43.62 16:43, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

...God keep our land...
That line in the Canadian anthem is a bigotery line, as not all Canadians believe in a God. I wish I had athiest 'sources', so I could put in a Controversy section on this article. GoodDay (talk) 00:13, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Canada was founded as a Christian nation, and in that respect the anthem is not guilty of "bigotery". Bulbous (talk) 05:01, 25 November 2007 (UTC)


 * See: O Canada. I am looking also for source objecting to "native land" --JimWae (talk) 00:34, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, I should've read the article through. The is a hot topic at this article. GoodDay (talk) 00:40, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Please remember that any conclusions, opinions, etc must come from a reliable source. Correct or incorrect any editors opinion doesn't meet this threshold.--Crossmr (talk) 01:57, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * True enough; but if there's any sources for these controversies surrounding the anthem? they would belong in the article. GoodDay (talk) 23:01, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So long as those sources are reliable then yes. I'm just giving a friendly reminder because often people try to use forums, blogs and other unreliable forms of self-published information as citation.--Crossmr (talk) 18:15, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Which original is original?
At the Canadian Senate website, this Feb 2002 press release claims to have the original lyrics.

You can hear these lyrics sung online in a 1914 recording (with chorus added between each verse).

So now I'm confused as to what to do. Are these lyrics the original ones? In any case, this seems to be a significant version and should be included on the page.

If you know better, please go ahead and update the page, rather than wait for me to fumble along. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.53.97.179 (talk) 12:33, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Maple Leaf Forever
The current article says "'The Maple Leaf Forever' is virtually forgotten."

Do other people think that's true? It seems to me that "The Maple Leaf Forever" is probably the best-known Canadian patriotic song besides the national anthem. I remember it - does anybody else? Adam_sk (talk) 05:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm 41, and I have met only one person my age or younger who knows "The Maple Leaf Forever". If it is being taught to school-age kids once again these days, I would be very surprised, albeit pleasantly surprised. Indefatigable (talk) 22:42, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've never heard of it before, but I do recognize the music from Canada Day march pasts on Parliament Hill. Bulbous (talk) 14:59, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

GAN on hold
(Version reviewed)


 * Can you please move all free images/sound to Commons
 * "The first lyrics that were composed for the song" - rmv that were
 * Is the one ref in the lead needed?
 * Also, expand 2nd paragraph?
 * Ref 3 publisher needs italics, check others
 * "most Canadians were surprised to learn that it did not already have such status." this sentence needs a specific ref
 * "and all kinds of versions were submitted." - bah..."multiple versions"?...all kinds is just non-professional...
 * "based on Alfred, Lord Tennyson'" - fix punctuation here based on actual article title (here)—reads awkwardly at the moment
 * "Two provinces have adopted..." - rmv spaces around em dashes in this paragraph
 * Merge short paragraphs in Performances section

Leave me a note when done. Cheers, dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 11:15, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Any more referencing would be good...

This GAN has passed, and this is now a good article! If you found this review helpful, please consider helping out a fellow editor by reviewing another good article nomination. Help and advice on how to do so is available at Reviewing good articles, and you can ask for the help of a GAN mentor, if you wish.

Cheers, dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 23:21, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Complete French Lyrics
This is a bit of a request, but clearly there are some extended French lyrics missing, as evidenced by the 1918 clip. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.68.171 (talk) 00:51, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The complete French lyrics are at Ô Canada. Double Blue  (Talk) 01:20, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Playing at NHL games
I took out "along with games that involve teams in the United States that are located near Canada" where it talks about playing the anthem at NHL games. I couldn't see anything that said this in the referenced article, and I've never heard of it. If I'm wrong, put it back in, but could you show a reference that says so? Thanks. (Priester -- not signed in) 192.104.67.122 (talk) 15:52, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It is true that the Buffalo Sabres play "O Canada" before "The Star Spangled Banner" at every home game, even if there are no Canadian-based teams involved, because they have so many Canadian season-ticket holders. However, I'm not about to put forth the effort to find an article to reference it to and, frankly, I don't think it's significant enough to bother mentioning it in this article.Djob (talk) 07:57, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Native Land
Just wondering, but why does it say "Our home and native land" when it isn't actually the native land for any canadians bar the Yupiks, Inuits, and Aleuts. 03:34, 5 June 2008 (UTC) Just a note that we have far more indigenous people than Inuits, Metis, Stolo, Haida, Mikmaq, Cree, Iroquois (Canada isn't Alaska...)...... and I agree with the commentator below. It has many meanings, and I'm fine with the various variations of the line. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.82.249.99 (talk) 21:11, 10 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Perhaps because "native" has more than one meaning? See  for twenty-four options, some more relevant than others. fishhead64 (talk) 03:46, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Native can refer to the land you are born in, instead of the land of your forefathers. For many who sing it is not their native land but is their home, and for Canadians abroad or who renounce citizenship they may still sing it as respect for their native land, but not their home. I would personally rather see "home or native land". Home and/or would be more accurate but I don't know how to incorporate 'and/or' into song. To be honest, I think is a minor issue in regards to controversial lyrics in the song. I take more issue with 'god keep our land' and 'true patriot love' and 'in all our sons command' and 'true north' and 'we stand on guard for thee'. A lot of these things infer things about Canadians, or have them singing about things they don't actually do. The french version is much less problematic in this way, the only problem is a minor thing about 'cross-bearing' really relating to Christianity subtly, but 'bear a cross' is also a general expression regardless of origins so I don't care so much. Tyciol (talk) 06:59, 23 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It is a typo ... it should be ... Our home on native's land! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.128.56.52 (talk) 23:29, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * From Wiktionary: "Native. 1) Belonging to one by birth. eg. 'This is my native land.'" Anyone born in Canada as a citizen is a native Canadian.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.104.247.195 (talk) 01:56, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

To play the devil's advocate, no one is indigenous to Canada on a long enough time frame. Even the First Nations and Inuit migrated here. They were just here first. I don't think "native land" means you have always been here. Because, really, few peoples anywhere would qualify on a geologic time scale. Where you are born or live is your home by definition. Where you were born is your native land, again, by definition. I understand and appreciate the political argument being made, but this is a matter of semantics.204.65.34.232 (talk) 16:37, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Formatting of lyrics
I don't see any compelling need to format the lyrics differently, and using inline style elements. I propose removing the inline formatting. Isaac Lin (talk) 17:07, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It's done on other articles (see The Star-Spangled Banner (though it now has an unfortunate mix of fonts)); it makes the lyrics easier to read, highlighting them from the surrounding prose text. I'm not yet finished giving the article a go-over, and will get the other, old lyrics in the same font as soon as possible. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  17:09, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I do not believe any additional highlighting of the lyrics is required as the surrounding white space is more than sufficient. The use of a serif font amid the sans-serif text is jarring. Isaac Lin (talk) 17:14, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Jarring sounds a little strong. Regardless, guidelines seem to call for quotations to be made recognisable as such in some manner, but advises neither for nor against the use of font to do so. I can ask at WP:WPMU and WP:LYRICS. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  17:24, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * In addition to concerns with good typesetting practices, using inline styles can pose accessibility issues for those who are attempting to use their own custom stylesheets. See Wikipedia's general guidance on formatting issues for a bit of additional discussion about avoiding custom formatting. Isaac Lin (talk) 17:39, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No responses so far to your inquiries. I propose that no special inline styles be used to format the lyrics, and that no special formatting be applied, to avoid accessibility issues and following Wikipedia's general guidance on formatting. Isaac Lin (talk) 16:00, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Any further comments from anyone on this proposal? Isaac Lin (talk) 04:00, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree 100 percent it makes it harder to read...But other articles do it...I guess old browsers use the old default bigger font for this text face ...Moxy (talk) 04:03, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your co-operation! Isaac Lin (talk) 01:53, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Oops, sorry; I forgot to comment here after removing the formatting. It turned out that most articles containing song lyrics didn't use a different font for them. Given that and the statements above, it seemed logical to undo the formatting here. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  23:39, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

German Immigrant Version
A historic German language version is known to have existed as can be seen at http://www.mhsbc.com/news/v11n02/v11n01p15.htm

The lyrics are a rather close translation of the English original.

O Canada

O Canada, mein Heim und Vaterland Wie gluecklich der, dem hier die Wiege stand! Das Herz erglueht, wenn wir dich seh’n Du Nordland, stark und frei, Wir halten Wacht, O Canada Wir halten Wacht dir treu. O Canada, O Canada, O Canada, Wir halten Wacht dir treu. It seems to have been in use by German Mennonites which came by the hundreds of thousands to Canada. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.88.122.182 (talk) 17:41, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * German-speaking Mennonites. These appear to be from Russian Mennonites. There's no indication of "use by" the groups but rather one hand-written copy found in one the belongings of one member of one boatload of refugees/immigrants. Having grown-up in a group of Russian Mennonites, we never sang O Canada in German. This may have been different in the 40s. One further thing, Mennonites, particularly Mennonite Brethren, have very little allegiance to the states of which they are citizens. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:55, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Russian Mennonites were Russian Empire citizens of German ethnicity, conserving and actively speaking their German language at least within the family and the community for generations and also upon arrival from Russia on Canadian shores. I will not doubt there were groups of russified Mennonites speaking Russian who eventually even might have written their own version of the Canadian anthem. There have been Germans on Canadian soil for generations at different times from the beginning to today, in history many of them in the services of the British monarchy fighting the Americans, as volunteers as well as pressed into service and sold to Britain by their German dukes. Not all of them were Mennonites. As there is such a version og the national anthem written in the German language, I strongly doubt that it was written just for translation rehearsal purposes among some groups of people who generally were very much down-to-earth, not highly educated but loyal out of gratitude towards the ones who gave them a safe asylum. I do not doubt that there were groups of Mennonites who never sang 'Oh Canada' in German but it does not exclude the possibility of groups of ethnic German Mennonites who stuck with their ethnic language translating and singing that hymn in German. This would be an interesting topic for scholars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.88.122.182 (talk) 21:15, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * All that this proves is that one person, for some unknown reason, translated the song into German. There's no indication that it was sung. It certainly was not in a hymnal so cannot be presumed to be a hymn. There's nothing of interest in a single, hand-written copy of some lyrics. For all we know, it was an exercise in translation, or a request from a non-English-speaking member of the community to understand what was being sung. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:48, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * It would be of interest to the Wikipedia community to get to know what you, obviously speaking on behalf of "the Russian Mennonites" in Canada, have to add to this discussion about the cultural achievements concerning Russian Mennonites (i.e. Russian speaking or ethnic Russian Mennonites) in Canada in their relationship to Canadian citizenship. Judging from your own growing up within an illoyal cult community within Canada does not mean you have bought the rights to speak for all the other Mennonites of German descent in Canada.


 * "There's nothing of interest in a single, hand-written copy of some lyrics" ... If this is true, you as well can use your oriental bible as toilet paper as too much of it bases on single hand written scripts where the authenticity, authorship and validity cannot be proven at all.


 * "For all we know, it was an exercise in translation, or a request from a non-English-speaking member of the community to understand what was being sung." Who is 'we'? And what makes you so sure about the two conclusions? The second one would suggest the anthem has been sung in German at some time within Canada... I just suggested solutions; you state your ideas as proven truth. Something went dead wrong there.


 * I suggest we leave this topic to real scholars then, my ridiculous internationally acknowledged MA title seems not sufficient for this discussion with a professor of an exotic cult. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.88.122.182 (talk) 22:26, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I find your tone insulting, and that comes from someone who has been warned about the tone of his edits. I don't speak for all Russian Mennonites in Canada any more than you speak for all Internet users in Berlin or all MA holders with an attitude. Your parallel to manuscript fragments of scripture at best laughable. The fact that one copy of a book of the bible is found in a cave is meaningful since there are so many other fragments and fully extant copies. Your reference is merely a single copy of a German translation. That's all. I won't comment on the use of your MA, but I will suggest you look at WP:OR. I'll also suggest that you understand that talk pages are not forums. This isn't really the place to request scholarly work be performed on a document. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:56, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * And please stop slandering Mennonites as an "illoyal cult". --Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:57, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * 'illoyal cults' are the ones which do not fully and loyally stand behind the constitution and the people of the country they live in. You just mentioned this yourself, written above. I do not have to agree with you as you are not the only one permitted to write the Wikipedia. I will not bother replying to the other slightly amusing remarks you made. Feel free to use your personal world view mennonite Wikipedia pages furtheron as your personal playgrounds then, Herr Prof. div.gratiae Goerlitz. -   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.88.122.182 (talk) 00:27, 9 September 2010 (UTC)


 * That does not describe the Mennonites, Russian or otherwise. I am not claiming ownership of Wikipedia. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:17, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

I wonder where in the article the anon feels it would be appropriate to mention the existence of this singular translation. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  23:15, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:17, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Links to geographic areas
Just to clarify my earlier edits: general Wikipedia consensus is for a reference to a city+larger geographical setting to only link to the city (of course, only when making the city a link is appropriate), with the reader able to navigate upwards from the city's article. Regarding my removal of the province, since Toronto is a relatively well-known international city, I don't believe a reference to the province is necessary, just as I don't believe the reference to Montreal needs to have any qualification added. I also think Ottawa is sufficiently well-known as the nation's capital. Isaac Lin (talk) 01:11, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, a good point Isaac. The high-value links in this article are somewhat diluted by the density of blue. Tony   (talk)  15:37, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Date Format
This article began 2001-NOV-01 with mdy format. This 2011-APR-03 edit changed the date format without prior discussion. Per retain, I will be restoring mdy format. The only date format with any claim to being having strong national ties to Canada is YMD (the same format that appears at the bottom of every article page & every talk page, even though it is not included in the MOS) --JimWae (talk) 21:06, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * On a side note, I assume the format for the date at the bottom of the page is determined by the setting under "My preferences", since for me, it appears in DMY format. isaacl (talk) 22:52, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually Canada has no official WP:STRONGNAT date format and either format can be used, but the format in use after the article is no longer a stub should be kept. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:55, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Rules and Laws copyright violation
I'm not sure how to explain this accurately in the deletion comments, but the whole section is a copyright violation from the Government of Canada website. Am I wrong? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:13, 14 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I think gov't publications are granted free-use license public domain. It's still a copy & paste, tho'.--JimWae (talk) 22:17, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The web site claims copyright, but provides a license for non-commercial reproduction (with attribution conditions). isaacl (talk) 23:28, 14 April 2011 (UTC)


 * So, the National Anthem Act specifies the melody. There's no act specifying the lyrics? No action by the gov't need be taken to change the embarrassingly exclusionary lyrics? Groups can decide for themselves to sing a more inclusionary lyrics?--JimWae (talk) 22:40, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * There are no laws governing how "O Canada" is performed, and copyright law on performances does not apply, so groups can sing whatever lyrics they want. Also, since the anthem is in the pubilc domain, anyone can create and publish any derived works, changing the lyrics or melody as they wish. isaacl (talk) 22:59, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I see the source says the Act specifies O Canada to be the national anthem. I do not see the source saying any act specifies the lyrics. I do see "official lyrics" mentioned, but not which act actually specifies them, though one might presume it to be the same act. --JimWae (talk) 23:10, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * See the National Anthem Act. isaacl (talk) 23:14, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link --JimWae (talk) 00:11, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Media farm
Ok so lets talk about what all the media is about --this is not a media farm for listing ever version we have (thats y we have wikicomons). What version should we keep - i see a few that could be dumped. We should be taking about the ones listed not simply listing every one we have with no mention of there context. So i suggest we mention 3 or 4 of them in the body of the text an keep those one - wheil dumping thoses we can (or) dont realy know about. Moxy (talk) 22:58, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * My personal view on the order of priority for including recordings is the following:
 * High quality instrumental version, so those unfamiliar with the anthem can learn to recognize it.
 * Versions of historical or cultural interest; the version played on the carillon bells is an example.
 * High quality versions with vocals; English, French, and both
 * The recordings from the Canadian Heritage site are good choices to meet the first need, and, if deemed necessary, the third need. isaacl (talk) 23:25, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * But the recordings by Canadian Heritage are under Crown Copyright, so we cannot really use those. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 23:28, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Are they CR o well - do we have more info on other versions so we can write about them in the text - this way we actually mention them in the body of the article giving credit were credit is due etc...Moxy (talk)
 * A license for non-commercial reproduction is provided, with attribution conditions. isaacl (talk) 23:31, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: the copyright notice states "personal or public non-commercial use". Wikipedia is deemed a commercial use because it may be mirrored or forked for commercial purposes. Unless media from government sources is public domain or licenced for any use, it cannot be used on WP. Mind  matrix  23:44, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok then i guess we should be actively requesting them for deletion?Moxy (talk) 23:53, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * If anyone is looking for a specific guideline, see WP:FAIRUSE and its explanation on commercial licensing. Guess the newly-added recordings will have to go out. isaacl (talk) 23:54, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * well i guess this solves the clutter problem Moxy (talk) 00:08, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I like Moxy's idea where we can cite the bi-lingual version to the mp3, but not upload the mp3 to here. We can always have a 30 second clip of it too. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 04:13, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Lyrics
Honestly, I want to limit the article to the two official languages of Canada. Other languages could be added, but I think it would be best to add them at Wikisource. However, if you decide to keep the Inuktitut language, use http://www.edu.gov.mb.ca/k12/cur/socstud/foundation_gr1/blms/1-2-2c.pdf as a source. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 04:18, 15 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Would be hard to include all the Official languages used across Northern Canada i think  - there is a few of them ...Canadians .Moxy (talk) 04:45, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * So that is why I wanted to include only the official national languages; we can have translations at Wikisource and make a mention in the text saying official translations are present in x, y, and z. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 05:23, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Agree: official languages, French & English, only. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:13, 15 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Perhaps we have the official lyrics section which contains English and French and then a recognized lyrics section for Inuktitut and any other native languages. The bilingual version could go in either but I think it should stay in the official section because it is on the Canadian Herritage (PCH) website along with English and French. Oddbodz (talk) 10:38, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the bilingual lyrics should get their own section. I am still not sure about the native languages, but given the size of this article, it will be pretty much nearly half are going to be lyrics. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 12:26, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * As I stated above, since the bilingual version is not official, I believe the lyrics should be moved to the Performances section. isaacl (talk) 15:22, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Song title
My apologies for my edit to the song title in the infobox; there was no intent to vandalize. Since the page for the sound in Wikimedia commons did not list an explicit title, and the sound was placed in the public domain, I felt that shortening the title would avoid an unduly distracting title in the infobox. isaacl (talk) 22:31, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I apologise for my odd form of Wiki-dyslexia, which causes me to see diffs backwards! I thought you'd added the extra text, not deleted it. Your edit was right; the title of the song is "O Canada", not "O Canada on a Piano". -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  22:36, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Performances
I added the notation about "O Canada" being performed at Watkins Glen International and New Hampshire Motor Speedway. This information is from personal experience. I have been to NASCAR races at both tracks and the Canadian National Anthem was performed before the "Star Spangled Banner" at both tracks. I asked a NASCAR official about this and was told that it was a requirement due to the proximity of Canada and out of respect and appreceation of the Canadian participants and fans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.238.131.166 (talk) 03:16, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. We need a reference. Proof that those are the only two races where it's done and also for the reasons stated. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:41, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

I also added the notation that for the race in Montreal at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, the notation that "O Canada" is performed after the "Star Spangled Banner" I cannot give a proper reference, however, as it was a television broadcast; however, the manner to which it is done is the same as a a US pro team playing in Canada.DelandSIV (talk) 20:25, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Try http://www.google.com/search?q=Canadian+anthem+site:nascar.com&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=o0S&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&ei=969aTs_bD-WssQK8urHBDA&start=20&sa=N&biw=1024&bih=602 User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 21:16, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

4 Verses
Can someone include all four verses of O Canada, instead of just the first one?

99.234.60.11 (talk) 03:17, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * There are only four official verses in French. I don't know if there are four official verses in English. See http://www.pch.gc.ca/pgm/ceem-cced/symbl/anthem-eng.cfm --Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:33, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Sound clip of national anthem
Is there any reason we can't have a superb modern performance of the anthem rather than that crappy 1915 performance, which appears to have no historical notability? It makes the piece sound dreadful. A modern performance is awaiting promotion to featured sound status, but cannot be passed unless it is included in an article. Tony  (talk)  15:40, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * You mean can we have a crappy American performance of the anthem rather than a neutral 1915 performance of the anthem? How about I get the Simon Fraser University Pipe Band version of the American Anthem and see who that annoys? It's a nationalism issue. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:42, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Given the size of the article, I see no issues with having both recordings. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 18:06, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's an excellent solution. Thanks. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:31, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 18:39, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes in the gallery is fine -  Is there a date for this new version this is kind of a requirement for GA articles (that is proper info for sounds).Moxy (talk) 23:26, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * According to http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20030504023804/http://www.navyband.navy.mil/anthems/national_anthems.htm the oldest date of the recording is approximately 2003. I had OTRS permission since 2006/2007 for these recordings. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 04:57, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Leaving personalities aside, I believe the United States Navy band version is a better performance and recording than the 1915 recording, and so support its use in the infobox. isaacl (talk) 03:18, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I completely disagree. I will say the recording quality is better, but it takes liberties with the melody adding harmonies into song that are not official. Also, it's only a single verse long while the anthem, and the recording is three verses long. Finally, the drums are personally repulsive. It makes it feel like a Sousa march or military processional and Canada is not as militaristic as the United States is, and hopefully never will be. Couple these faults with the nationalistic bent and proud sense of heritage and you have solid reasons for not making the navy band version the lead version of the hymn. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:37, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The dynamics in the 1915 recording are unusual—a large jump in volume in the second verse, a bit lower at the start of the third, and then fading out at the end. (Technically speaking, the official lyrics are only one verse.) The softer instruments are somewhat muffled, and so some of their detail is lost. I'm not sure if you mean to say the Navy band version does not follow the melody line in places; I did not detect this. I'm not sure what nationalistic bent and proud sense of heritage you are attributing to the 1915 recording; I think the Victor Military Band was an in-house band for the Victor record company in New Jersey. In any case, though I'm not highly opinionated about which recording to link to in the infobox, I think the quality of the recording should be given greater weight than the origin of the recording. isaacl (talk) 04:23, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I would argue that the oldest version  -  preferable by a Canadian version  - should be seen  first. Do we have an older version then 1915/16??. Much more interesting to hear an old version (historical in nature) then some random version from the 2000s (that we could find thousands of including some from Canada). So i would say historical value over quality  of sound is more inline with an  encyclopedias content. In fact how does this new USA clip even merit a FA class - i see no historical reference  and  no ones even sure when it was made - its only attribute is sound quality.  Moxy (talk) 19:09, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * If the version was notable for a specific reason, then I might agree. However I see no particular historical reason to prefer a random version from a 78 rpm record over a random version from the 2000s in the infobox. In the list of different performances, I agree that having the oldest available version that Wikipedia editors can find helps illustrate how the anthem has been performed over the years. The list of performances allows the article to satisfy both historical interest and to contain a high-quality representation of the anthem; we do not have to choose one or the other. isaacl (talk) 19:21, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * When I wrote "takes liberties with the melody adding harmonies" I meant just that. They have changed the chords of the actual song. The "lead line" is not changed. Out of curiosity, do you have any musical training? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:51, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't believe that having a different orchestration from the original is an issue. For example, the 1915 version contains trills and grace notes; I don't know if the original arrangement had those, but if not, I wouldn't object to linking to the Victor Military Band version on that basis. Different arrangements can suit different sets of instruments. isaacl (talk) 20:04, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * But the chords are different on occasion. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:16, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * That's not unusual for someone creating a new arrangement of a piece; the arrangement for a recording where the brass will predominate can favour different accompaniment lines than the arrangement for a full orchestra, where a wider variety of instruments will take the spotlight. isaacl (talk) 20:33, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Which is why the bagpipe version for the American anthem (in E flat) would be a great addition to the Ameircan page. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:17, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Not sure how adding performances of different arrangements to the list of performances of an anthem relates to the question of the relative merit of the quality of the recording linked to in the infobox. But certainly a few different arrangements of a given national anthem from different periods and possibly different styles may be of historical interest (of course, subject to the consensus reached by interested editors on what set of recordings is sufficiently notable). isaacl (talk) 23:21, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * When you hear one arrangement all your life and then a military band from another country plays a very different arrangement, literally changing the chord structure of the music, it is offensive. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:25, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

If you want to get an alternative version then a bilingual, public domain version is available at http://www.pch.gc.ca/pgm/ceem-cced/symbl/MP3/O-Canada-bil.MP3. I would add it myself but I can't get it from .mp3 to a supported file. if anyone can then that would probably be the best version to have. Oddbodz (talk) 21:14, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

I have no found out how to do this and the file is up. I have put the disputed version in the listen section. Hope the biligual version is ok. Oddbodz (talk) 21:27, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * i put up the navy band anthem on canada's info box and it was changed back to the 1915 version by user:Walter Görlitz he clearly is vandalizing an arcticle for personal preference as he said '"because 1) it's American and 2) it's not the right harmonies''' thee navy band should be put back up whe have more than one person wanting it up. philpm930Philpm930 (talk) 02:22, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * No clear vandalizing. I have given my clear reasons in both locations. Shall I present them again? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:55, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Let's look at what happened.
 * You added the sound file that you know offends Canadians. A nice bold edit.
 * Another editor removed it in under two minutes.
 * Some time later another editor restored it: I see no reason why this doesn't belong.
 * I offered two reasons why it doesn't belong and removed it.
 * Recognizing that the editor might have wanted a sound file, I added the one that has gained consensus here.
 * The debate then reopened at Talk:Canada and no one likes the file that you added. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:07, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

well at least there's an anthem box now :) can someone please give me a reason why people don't want to have a sound box up on the main page? I think every country needs one, just like there flag and coat of arms on wiki. philpm930Philpm930 (talk) 18:02, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Main sample
I mean no offence, but the main sample is rather simple and we have other instrumentals of far better musical quality. The infobox sample is usually of high quality, I refer to the articles on the national anthem for other countries, you'll not find simple performances there, they're all orchestral or band performances of high quality. Where was the consensus for the change, last time such a change was made a discussion began over cultural ties and what not.  James ( Talk •  Contribs ) • 8:28pm • 10:28, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Could you link to these other instrumentals, for comparison? Nikkimaria (talk) 12:30, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * There are links to different instrumental versions within the article itself. You can see the discussion above on what version to use; there were some strong feelings about it. Regarding the example linked to in the infobox, personally I would prefer to link to a different version (you can see my opinion above). However, since by the objective criterion I laid out previously—sufficiently high quality to allow listeners to learn to recognize the anthem—the current version qualifies, I won't object to anyone insisting on keeping it. isaacl (talk) 14:36, 21 June 2012 (UTC)