Talk:O heilges Geist- und Wasserbad, BWV 165

translation of title?
Hello, I've made a couple of edits (hopefully not enough to destabilize anything) but have a question about whether heiliges modifies Geist or Bad. I seems most writers go for the former, though Boyd (Cambridge Composer Companions) says "O holy bath of spirit and water". Sparafucil (talk) 09:34, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I hope the translation, giving two versions of many, is clear: most writers want the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit in there, but in German grammar, "heiliges" clearly modifies bath (das Bad), it would be "Heiliger Geist" (or "Der heilige Geist" in declination). It still means, of course, that the bath (of baptism) is holy because of the Spirit. To make things more complicated: I am afraid that English would have no way to say in so few syllables that baptism is both a Geistbad (spiritual bath or Spirit-bath) and Wasserbad (water bath) ;) - There's a sigh in one of the translations, Ambrose, I believe. - Thanks for helping and thinking! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:04, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The currently given translation sounds ludicrous. But never mind that - it's the second i in "heilige" that puzzles me. Many English readers will be familiar with the first four words of Stille Nacht, and know that "heilige" has three syllables. So why does this article mostly omit the second i? I'm sure there's a good reason, but the article ought to say what it is. Maproom (talk) 08:10, 31 May 2015 (UTC)


 * In German, poets and others are free to omit syllables, - that should be explained somewhere generally, not in this article ;) - Writing it, I couldn't believe that we don't have an article Baroque literature. We take the spelling of Bach cantata titles as given by the BWV, even in the many cases where they differ from todays regulated ways, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:42, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Text
About the text in the lead, we had
 * Based on a text by the court poet Salomo Franck who stayed close to the prescribed Gospel about the meeting of Jesus and Nicodemus, he set ideas beginning with "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God".

After the review noted correctly that this leaves open if Franck was a pious man or stayed close to the gospel in this particular text, I tried to simplify, and also to give a citation for the biblical quote:


 * The text was written by the court poet Salomo Franck who kept it close to the prescribed gospel about the meeting of Jesus and Nicodemus, discussing "man be born of water and of the Spirit" . Franck derives thoughts about baptism and man's condition in need of God's grace.

Now we are more or less back to the first, - was that result of an edit conflict or should we discuss? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:13, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * For the record, I modified it so it's good enough for GA standards. However, I prefer Gerda's wording and I think something like that will probably be needed if taken to FAC.-RHM22 (talk) 14:44, 24 February 2015 (UTC)