Talk:Occidentalism

Untitled
"Occidentalism is a term for stereotyped and sometimes dehumanizing views of the so-called Western world, including Europe, the United States, Australia and so on."

It is the view of the Western world, or the view on the Western world?

Fixed, User:Ejrrjs says What? 11:07, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

just stereotypes?
I suggest that whoever authored this page take the time to really understand Edward Said's "Orientalism," as well as the work of Xiaomei Chen in "Occidentalism."

Said's conception of Orientalism isn't just of a batch of misrepresentations and "stereotypes," but a whole systemically produced and sustained discourse of discourses in the West in a variety of academic fields, in popular culture, etc., "a battery of desires, repressions, investments, and projections" (p.74 of "Orientalism: A Reader" edited by MacFie), that ultimately serves to uphold the very historical (socially/politically constructed) dichotomy of "East" and "West," of "Orient" and "Occident," and in such a way that facilitates, justifies and enforces Western political, cultural, social and economic domination/exploitation of the "East" for Western gain. You can see how this is a far more complicated, and may I say far more sinister, phenomenon than simply "stereotypes."

And from what I understand of Xiaomei Chen's idea of "Occidentalism," it's not simply an inverse of "Orientalism," nor could it be, because the discourses of Orientalism are deeply tied to their position of power, and in fact serve to uphold that power, and therefore do not operate in the same way or to the same ends as the discourses of Occidentalism do. To be sure, Occidentalism is an equally complicated phenomenon, and one formed with very strong elements of resistance tied to it: resistance to Orientalism, resistance to Western imperialism. However, it's not a resistance that has served one end, or taken one discernable form, and there are a lot of internalized conflicts in Occidentalist discourses, as there are in any pan-ethnic/pan-geographic strategic alliance or affiliation or identity-formation or whatever. And Occidentalism has certainly included negative appropriations/representations of Western culture(s), but I think any recognition of this cannot simultaneously ignore the context of general Western domination and exploitation from which such negative appropriations/representations arise, or the complexities and discontinuities of the resistances and insistences that have formed under the banner of "Occidentalism."

However, I don't have the materials on hand to write what I would consider to be a well-documented, well-cited article here.

I'm just saying someone should do it, because this is a grossly simplified wording of what Orientalism and Occidentalism entail...

peace :: aidan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.8.89.244 (talk) 21:39, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You make the mistake of presenting Said's opinions as though they are fact. They are not. They are strongly disputed. And the term Orientalism exists independently of his opinions. You also seem to assume that "occidentalism" is whatever Xiaomei Chen says. It is not. It is a word used in several different ways by different authors. However, you are free to improve wording and clarify, as are all contributors. Paul B (talk) 16:12, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Can we get some pictures of Occidentalism plz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.195.86.40 (talk) 05:29, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

No sources
This article has no in-line citations, references, and sources. It mentions two books but never cites material from them in the text by page or even chapter, in fact giving them only as "Further Readings." The quoted poem is not sourced, nor is any reference given to its historical or cultural contexts. Opinions are inserted as if they were fact (e.g., "Clearly the "west" here does not correspond to the modern meaning of the term, but it indicates that the Othering of geographically and culturally alien peoples has a long history"). The terms "clearly" and "indicates" imply that these statements are the author's opinions, again unsourced and unreferenced.

Later, the article says "English words and phrases are prominent in Japanese advertising and popular culture, and many Japanese anime are written around characters, settings, themes, and mythological figures derived from various Western cultural traditions." It may be true that English-language expressions occur in Japan, perhaps not surprisingly given that Japan was occupied by US armed forces from 1945 to 1952 and has had close trade and cultural relations with the US for the second half of the 20th century. Nonetheless, as an unsourced statement, the assertion is only an opinion. The word "prominent" must be documented and defined; the word "various" is weasel-wording.

The article has a number of other, equally serious problems. So I added Original Research and Cleanup tags to the whole article.

Timothy Perper (talk) 06:33, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Things that often seem to come up in this context (possibly for the article)
Sayyid Qutb spent a whole year in an academic exchange program in Greeley, Colorado, and seemingly came out of it with no more meaningful knowledge of the U.S. than he had at the beginning (though with some of his negative stereotypes heavily reinforced). Then there's also Gharbzadegi ... AnonMoos (talk) 08:18, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation?
Chen Xiaomei = "chen exy ow may" ?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 01:08, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Examples
Would be cool to have some examples under "Occidental Representations"Viciouspiggy (talk) 19:56, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

On the fix list
Yeah this is at the top of my Edit list as of January 30, 2023. It seems the original author fundamentally misunderstands Orientalism as a concept and how Occidentalism is a reciprocal. OP gives white supremacist vibes so this will be fixed as soon as I'm able (masters level history student btw, so I know more on the topic and can as professionals in my department). Alxroja (talk) 22:48, 30 January 2023 (UTC)