Talk:Octavarium/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer:  C  anniba loki  16:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Checklist
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria


 * 1) Is it reasonably well written?
 * A. Prose quality:
 * B. MoS compliance:
 * I think you are overusing quotations, please consider read WP:QUOTE.
 * Gone through and converted many quotes into paraphrases; hopefully improved flow. Una LagunaTalk 21:30, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Only WP:OVERLINK to care of now (see below). Eric Leb 01 (Page &#124; Talk)  23:53, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Pass (1a) Eric Leb 01 (Page &#124; Talk)  04:29, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Pass (1b) Eric Leb 01 (Page &#124; Talk)  04:29, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
 * A. References to sources:
 * B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
 * What makes metalreview.com and metal-invader.com reliable sources?
 * The same issue we've had at Talk:Blood (OSI album)/GA1 - let's clarify things there first. Una LagunaTalk 21:30, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Please replace the two above with Billboard, Exclaim!, and musicOMH.--  C  anniba loki  00:35, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Metalreview should be fine, as noted in their "About us" section (they are ten years old). Blogreviews and Metal Invader, however, probably shouldn't be there. I second the motion to get more reliable reviews. Eric Leb 01 (Page &#124; Talk)  23:53, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ Re-written the bulk of the Reception section with the new sources Cannibaloki suggested; removed the song-by-song reception. Una LagunaTalk 11:55, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Pass (2b) Eric Leb 01 (Page &#124; Talk)  04:29, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * C. No original research:
 * Octavarium is the eighth studio album by American progressive metal band Dream Theater. Why Octavarium is a progressive metal album? There is no source for that statement.
 * Allmusic cite the album as progressive metal, put a ref to that effect in the infobox - is that the sort of thing you're thinking of? Una LagunaTalk 21:30, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * No, you should create a musical style section to describe the album's genre.--  C  anniba loki  00:35, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Could you point me to a couple of recently-passed GAs or FAs to show what you mean? I don't see what information I'd include in such a section that isn't already included elsewhere in the article; I was under the impression that such a section isn't necessary for an album article to be promoted to GA or FA. Una LagunaTalk 18:16, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Featured article candidates/Cavalera Conspiracy/archive1--  C  anniba loki  18:58, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a band article rather than an individual album article - I think you're comparing apples and oranges. Una LagunaTalk 19:26, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll request a second opinion.--  C  anniba loki  19:34, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Una here; no section on the style should be needed; the "Concept" section is fine for a GA. Pass Eric Leb 01 (Page &#124; Talk)  23:53, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Is it broad in its coverage?
 * A. Major aspects:
 * You should create a section to describe the album's musical style and lyrical themes. Try to split the composition section.
 * Moved the first paragraph of Composition, discussing the orchestra, to the end of the background section; renamed the Composition section to Songs. Is this better? Una LagunaTalk 21:30, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Things seem fine to me. However, you might want to turn some sections into sub-sections to make it look cleaner. (I tried the following: Reception to go under Release, and Content and Artwork under Concept; but it's all up to you, revert if you want.) Pass Eric Leb 01 (Page &#124; Talk)  23:53, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
 * B. Focused:
 * 1) Is it neutral?
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * On hold for a week.--  C  anniba loki  19:07, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Pass (7) Eric Leb 01 (Page &#124; Talk)  04:29, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * On hold for a week.--  C  anniba loki  19:07, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Pass (7) Eric Leb 01 (Page &#124; Talk)  04:29, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * On hold for a week.--  C  anniba loki  19:07, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Pass (7) Eric Leb 01 (Page &#124; Talk)  04:29, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Comments

 * "Panic Attack" is featured as a playable song in Rock Band 2. This sentence is not out of place in the composition section?
 * Moved this sentence, and a similar one regarding "The Answer Lies Within" and Notes on a Dream, to the end of the Release and Promotion section. Una LagunaTalk 21:30, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * CD and DVD should not be replaced by live album and video?
 * ✅ Una LagunaTalk 21:30, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Octavarium peaked on the Billboard 200 at 36, and peaked in the top 20 in nine countries. Try something like: Octavarium sold 26,781 copies in its first week of release in the United States, peaking at number 36 on the Billboard 200. The album reached the top five in the Finnish, Italian, and Swedish charts, as well as the top ten in the Dutch, Japanese, and Norwegian charts.
 * ✅ Una LagunaTalk 21:30, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

--  C  anniba loki  16:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅--  C  anniba loki  17:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Additional comments
I'm going to help out with the prose (being a fan of DT myself, love the Octavarium track), and list the problematic things I find here. I think these can all be fixed relatively quickly, so they are not going to cause a fail right away.


 * Per WP:OVERLINK, some words should be delinked. I found a few words linked twice, but did not check thoroughly. Also, common English words should not be linked as well. Sole MoS issue I found.
 * ✅ I've kept the links for technical musical terms, but otherwise I've cut down on the other wikilinks. Una LagunaTalk 22:33, 26 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Try to bundle the lead into fewer paragraphs (more of a stylistic issue than anything).
 * ✅ Una LagunaTalk 12:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "The album was based around the concept of the musical octave." -> The album's contents or album title?
 * ✅ Una LagunaTalk 12:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "the top 20 in nine countries' sales charts and peaked at 36 on the Billboard 200 in the United States." -> Seems USA-centric to add that last bit. (Another occurrence is in the "Reception" section.
 * ✅ Una LagunaTalk 22:33, 26 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "They co-headlined the 2005 North American Gigantour." -> Whose tour was this? Needs clarification.
 * ✅ Una LagunaTalk 12:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * If you're going to source a claim in the lead, you might as well source them all (and I would highly recommend you do that).
 * I see that you're in the process of editing, but this claim I made is false (per WP:CITELEAD, which I only read a few days ago), and no claims should be sourced if it is sourced in the article. I'll do it if you want, once you're done (I want to avoid a possible edit conflict). Ignore everything I said... current state is good. Eric Leb 01 (Page &#124; Talk)  16:29, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * "We love bands like U2 or Coldplay [parentheses-enclosed note], as well as liking..." -> Is the parentheses-enclosed note of your doing? If so, I suggest removing it.
 * ✅ Una LagunaTalk 12:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * ""The Answer Lies Within", "Sacrificed Sons" and "Octavarium" feature a sixteen-piece orchestra." -> This sentence is awkward when coupled with the previous one (the word "orchestra" is used several times). Try rephrasing it.
 * ✅ Una LagunaTalk 12:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "...[Van halen album], which ended with a new riff being played which faded out." -> Not only is this wordy, but I don't understand it and couldn't help you with it.
 * ✅ Hopefully clearer now. Una LagunaTalk 22:33, 26 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The quotation in the second paragraph of "Songs" may violate Fair Use because it's too long. Cut it down a bit or paraphrase his words.
 * ✅ Una LagunaTalk 12:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "...the band discussed their wording and how direct they should be at great length." -> What do you mean by "at great length"?
 * ✅ Una LagunaTalk 12:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I renamed the section "Songs" to "Content", if you don't mind.
 * I see numerous tags. These should be resolved as soon as possible.
 * ✅ Una LagunaTalk 22:33, 26 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "The Montreal concert was recorded and released as a live album and video..." -> A "live album and video"? Like a CD and DVD collection of some sort? I see that Cannibaloki made you change it, but there has got to be a better term.
 * Changed to the more specific "live album and concert video", a term I've seen used in a few other GAs, although it admittedly still feels a bit clunky. Una LagunaTalk 22:33, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Better than live album and video


 * Second sentence of "Reception" has eight sources. Spread them out in the sentence to avoid the clutter.
 * ✅ Una LagunaTalk 12:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Positive reception for the album should be in the first paragraph; negative in the second. Individual song reviews shouldn't be in an album article.
 * ✅ Una LagunaTalk 22:33, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

I've updated the criteria and I will obviously allot you some more time to fix these issues. Feel free to question any of them. Regards. Eric Leb 01 (Page &#124; Talk)  23:53, 22 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Nice one! I'm quite busy at the moment, but will try and implement your suggested changes as and when I get the chance. Una LagunaTalk 23:36, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem. The systematic seven-day rule is just a customary measure; as long as I know you'll get to it, there's no rush. Eric Leb 01 (Page &#124; Talk)  00:18, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Congratulations on the pass! Well written and researched article; the listing is fully deserved. Eric Leb 01 (Page &#124; Talk)  04:29, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Mega-thanks to both you and Cannibaloki! I really appreciate it :) Una LagunaTalk 10:16, 27 August 2010 (UTC)