Talk:Octobass

In English?
What does this mean in English:? "It's lowest string is tuned to Do of subcontroctave (16,35 Hz)" Badagnani 06:07, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The sub-contra octave occupies the range from C[0] 16.352 Hz to B[0] 30.868 Hz.
 * Do is the solmization syllable for the note C.


 * The C[0] register is 4 octaves below middle C.
 * Middle C is C[4] 261.63 Hz.


 * The standard 4 stringed bass has it's low E tuned at 41.2 Hz which is E[1] in the contra octave. Some basses have a mechanism to drop the low E to C[1] 32.703 Hz.


 * The octobass would therefore be tuned about an octave lower than a standard bass. Ozbass 11:42, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Re: "Do is the solmization syllable for the note C." Only in "fixed do" solmization systems, and "fixed do" systems defeat the point of solmization altogether. The sentence is nonsensical and deliberately obscure. Badagnani was right to question it. TheScotch (talk) 13:21, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Incorrect
Unless anyone can cite sources that say that the octobass is an octave lower than the bass, we need to correct this article.

"The instrument is not, as many people believe, the lower octave of the double-bass, but that of the cello; it can reach only the third below the E of the four-stringed double-bass." - Richard Strauss, Treatise on Instrumentation -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.204.30.199 (talk • contribs) 20:42, 14 November 2006


 * I think the instrument's frequency range can't be correct. 16.352 Hz is below the human hearing threshold. 32.7 seems like it could be correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.104.4.170 (talk) 01:20, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It is not so simple as that. For starters, "humans have a maximum aural range that begins as low as 12 Hz". __ Just plain Bill (talk) 03:04, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

(I appologize, the author was Hector Berlioz, not Richard Strauss) -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.204.30.199 (talk • contribs) 20:43, 14 November 2006

There are some misconceptions. The Treatise on Instrumentation commonly attributed to Berlioz was written by both Hector Berlioz and Richard Strauss. This is the information printed on the front of mine, published by Dover. My understanding had been that Benjamin Britten had later updated it and edited it, as well, but I am having trouble quickly locating that documentation in print, at the moment. EnglishHornDude EnglishHornDude (talk) 02:00, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Correction
I corrected this article. The misunderstanding that the octobass was an octave below the string bass is understandable, and appears to have been common enough (even shortly after the instrument was created) that Berlioz felt it neccesary to specifically correct it in his Treatise on Instrumentation. The article already mentioned that Berlioz was the primary advocate of the instrument, so I am inclined to believe him (lacking contradictory, reliable sources).

"It doesn't make sense for an instrument so much bigger and more impractical to play than the double bass to have a range only two whole steps lower."

The advantage of the octobass was not extreme depth, but increased power and tonal stability. The viola and string bass are, due to practical concerns, smaller than would be acoustically ideal. That is why the viola and string bass have a darker, more covered and less powerfull tone than their acoustically-ideal cousins, the violin and cello. The lowest tones of the string bass, especially the notes on the low C extension, have a tendancy to sound rough and coarse. The octobass, having a larger resonance chamber and longer strings, had a stronger tone quality on these deep notes. -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.204.30.199 (talk • contribs)


 * Well, this explains things quite well. I would like to cross-check with the museum in Paris that holds the specimen shown in the photo, as they must get asked the question of "how low does it go" every day.  Ever get out to Paris?  Badagnani 06:12, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure, I drive through there everytime I go to Little Rock.... Oh wait, you probably didn't mean Paris, Arkansas. :-)   No, unfortunately, I've never made it out of the US.  -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.204.30.199 (talk • contribs)

I don't think so. Take a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfozEG98U_M Focus on the entire video, but especially at 0:59. Are you telling me that is a pitch that a Double Bass can reach? Oh please... That is definitely in the 0th octave: a D0 at 18 hertz to be exact. So I believe the secondary misconception is that ALL Octobasses "must" be tuned to C1-G1-C2. No, the string length is optimal for octave tuning, as did the octobassist in the video. 96.52.45.151 (talk) 00:52, 18 November 2009 (UTC)]] That was me under that IP address by the way. ;)--Basstrombonebfd (talk) 00:54, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

I built an octobass for the artist Linder's entry to the Latitude Contempory Art competition. We tuned it to a B with a fundamental around 15hz (we were aiming for C, but the strings were a bit heavy and the tension was concerning). The open B is audible through harmonics as a rhythm rather than a note, but it is very present, and musically valid: http://www.flickr.com/photos/leadtowill/7610407178/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.171.246.211 (talk) 01:18, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Who wrote for the octobass?
I have removed this sentence from the article:


 * Octobass has been scored for in autographs of many composers including Hector Berlioz, Richard Strauss, Mahler, Brahms, Wagner, Tchaikovsky, and others.

It had a citation needed tag. It dates from this edit - unfortunately the user who added it hasn't been active for a long time. I'm not claiming to know the instrumentation of every piece ever written, but I find the claim rather unlikely (Brahms, especially, seems dubious). Grove says in its double bass article that the octobass "can be regarded as little more than a curiosity," which surely wouldn't be true if such prominent composers had written for it. If the sentence is correct, it should be easy to find a source confirming the facts. In that case, it can go back into the article.

I'm also rather confused by the line "The modern technique of octobass playing includes the technique of fingering up to A" (introduced in the same edit) since the article says the strings aren't stopped by fingering as such at all. And does it really require two people to play? There are videos on YouTube that suggest not. I'll leave this for somebody else to worry over, however. --Camembert (talk) 01:00, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Hitler
Removed "Historical fact: Adolf Hitler used to have more than 2 octobasses in his personal bunker while burning the country side during the second world war. But sadly, because of the the Academy of Fine Arts Vienna rejection, he burn them as well." A reliable source would be needed before including this.--Johnsoniensis (talk) 16:15, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Complete Rework
I completely reworked the article, focusing specifically on tuning and range. I did my best to be agnostic on the issue of which octave it is tuned to, reporting different tunings of specific extant instruments as well as the tuning reported by Berlioz. I also cleared out some broken links, some unsourced information, and moved some information into citations. MadContrabassoonist (talk) 22:22, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Historic People
Would it be helpful to add people who have played this instrument in the past? I thought it would be nice to have more background of people with the instrument, since there is no information of this on the topic. Yorkielover4 (talk) 04:27, 18 October 2018 (UTC)Yorkielover4Yorkielover4 (talk) 04:27, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Lowest pitch
Re: "The fundamental frequencies of the lowest notes in this tuning lie below 20 Hz — the commonly-stated lower bound of human hearing range — but these notes are nevertheless audible due to the overtones they produce."

The citation here links to a Youtube video showing a "curator at NIM [Musical Instrument Museum]", discussing and demonstrating the instrument. I shouldn't consider that a particularly authoritative source, and, as it happens, the remark would seem to perpetuate several misconceptions about pitch and human hearing. In the first place, the range stereotypically attributed to human hearing, 20 to 20,00 Herz, is commonly mistaken for the range of average human hearing whereas, in fact, it represent a hypothetical extreme (or, rather, two hypothetical extremes). In the second place, pitch is gestalt perception of a very rapid oscillation or pulsing. It's not so much a limitation of the ear that prevents us from perceiving sufficiently low frequencies as pitches, but rather a limitation of the mind that causes us to perceive pitch at all. We are still processing the last pulse as we receive the next, and that causes them to blur in our perception into a single entity. When I listen the lowest note on the octobass, 16.3 Herz, I'm not much noticing overtones. Rather, I can clearly and distinctly make out individual pulses. They are so slow that they fail to blur for to me. TheScotch (talk) 13:01, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Introduction to Public Musicology
— Assignment last updated by Lizziew17 (talk) 18:17, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Before the extension
The article talks about the "regular" string bass reaching B0 "with the extension" and mentions the extension not existing in Vuillaume's time. I recall extensions appearing in orchestra basses in the late 1960s, but long before that we already had (and still have) five-string basses where the lowest string was tuned to C1, B0 or Bflat0. In nearly all orchestral music, however, C1 is the lowest note basses need to play, largely because C2 is the lowest free string on the cello and up to late Beethoven basses usually doubled the cello part an octave lower. This is also why bass parts are written an octave higher than they actually sound. Not having a five-string instrument, I have on occasion tuned my E-string down to C if the music has required it, though the fingering gets a bit tricky and the string is a bit loose for quick passages especially on a 3/4 instrument. Jarmo K. (talk) 14:26, 25 May 2023 (UTC)