Talk:Office Space/Archive 1

Various Comments
The credits have "Mike Judge as Stan (Chotchkie's Manager)". Chotchkie who ? Jay 16:09, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Chotchkie's is the restaurant where Jennifer Aniston works (think of the "flair"). [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 16:10, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * hmm.. thanks, had seen the movie long back, hence don't remember the details. So how does Jennifer Aniston fit into the plot ? Jay 16:24, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * She's a waitress at Chotchkie's, who starts dating the main character ( Greg? Peter). Then there's tension because he thinks that his boss Lumberg was her former lover, they fight, they make up, they both hate their jobs, happy ever after. I don't really remember her doing all that much in the story. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 16:26, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * ya I now remember the part. Was just wondering if I can add all that in the plot, but it makes no sense to add it. If we mention a character in the credits, ideally they should be part of the plot. Jay 16:44, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Another popular pop-culture reference started from this movie I hear often on the web and in conversational use is "Pound-me-in-the-ass prison" to refer to serious jail-time or imprisonment in unpleasant circumstances (like most American prisons other than those designated "minimum security"). --12.210.252.89 04:44, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Milton
I thought the Milton cartoon shorts were created for MTV's Liquid TV, NOT Saturday Night Live. Anyone confirm/deny?? --emb021

They aired on both at about the same time. I think Liquid TV had them just a bit earlier though. -bdve


 * The Entertainment Weekly article cited states that the shorts were created for Saturday Night Live.146.122.71.68 (talk) 14:35, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Trivia
The article on Peter Gibbons featured this bit of trivia:
 * The character name "Gibbons" may have been chosen as a pejorative allusion to the Gibbon, an animal typically classified as a "lesser Ape".

Can anyone varify, and should we include it?
 * Sounds ridiculous to me. Don't include it unless you have confirmation from a reliable source --sumnjim talk with me·changes 20:12, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Fan reactions
"Fan reaction" cannot be whiped out to "conform to a higher standard of article quality." There must be a way to solve this. I hope "Fan reaction" will remain maybe on a separate page but these fan reactions are part of the Wikipedia.

User response:

Maybe if the "Fan reaction" was more organized with categories and bullets?

A bullet for vernacular, one for the staplers, etc?

I'll try to tinker with it this weekend and clean it up.

hypnotist
The article states, "Fortunately, he has an accident in hypnotherapy — the hypnotist suddenly dies before he can snap Peter out of a state of complete relaxation." to my recollection, the hypnotist has a heart attack, but we never find out if he actually died.--Ridge Racer 19:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * No, it's actually revealed in the movie that Dr. Swanson dies following that scene. If you have the DVD, skip to the scene after the hypnotherapist's, when Peter sleeps in on Saturday instead of going to work.  When he gets up, he starts listening to his voice messages (all from Lumbergh) when his soon-to-be-ex calls.  At one point she says "First you just sit there while Dr. Swanson dies ..."  Now, she may be exagerating things, but presumably by now the characters would now whether he lived or died. &mdash; EagleOne\Talk 20:22, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I assumed she was just exagerating, but then again it sounds like you are right.--Ridge Racer 18:35, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, it's quite obvious that he really died. --s<FONT COLOR="#2B60DE">u</FONT><FONT COLOR="#3BB9FF">m</FONT><FONT COLOR="#3EA99F">n</FONT><FONT COLOR="#4AA02C">j</FONT><FONT COLOR="#347235">i</FONT><FONT COLOR="#254117">m</FONT> talk with me·changes 20:10, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Peter's promotion
The Bobs are impressed with Peter's candor, easy-going attitude, and the valid points he makes. While this is technically true, IMHO it totally mischaracterizes the Bobs, as if they were positive figures, which they most assuredly were not. The valid points he made attacked the corporate dynamic they are promoting--including themselves.--Buckboard 10:13, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Technical accuracy
Unless the code they wrote replicated itself from one system to another, it is not techncally a "virus". A slightly better technical term might be "trojan horse" although from the description, it sounds like they just modded the existing system because they had the necessarily privileges. The article about malware explains this terminology in more detail.
 * I think Torjan horse implies tricking someone into running it -- but they ran it themselves. Maybe it's a computer worm? I don't remember if the movie ever really discusses the details. Ewlyahoocom 12:54, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Michael Bolton (heh) said, "I don't understand. I can program a virus that can rip that place off big time.......big time." TommyBoy76 01:13, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, he did say the word "virus", but the correct term to use is "worm" --<FONT COLOR="#151B8D">s</FONT><FONT COLOR="#2B60DE">u</FONT><FONT COLOR="#3BB9FF">m</FONT><FONT COLOR="#3EA99F">n</FONT><FONT COLOR="#4AA02C">j</FONT><FONT COLOR="#347235">i</FONT><FONT COLOR="#254117">m</FONT> talk with me·changes 13:37, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Movies aren't known for being technically accurate. Jon 15:28, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No, but Wikipedia should strive to be.
 * In this particular case, "worm" is not accurate either (there is no replicating behavior) but "trojan" might be; they are adding unauthorized code (essentially, a backdoor) to an application which they are allowed to modify, but arguably only for making it perform according to its defined purpose. (See also Malware for a discussion.) But perhaps it would be simplest to change the wording entirely, and avoid this terminological quandary.-- era (Talk | History) 09:20, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It is always referred to as a Virus in the movie, so surely it should be referred to as a virus on wikipedia. It may not be strictly true, but more people will understand the term Virus than trojan horse. can you imagine michael bolton saying "i dont understand, i could program a worm that could rip that place off big time" it wouldnt work and would just simply cause confusion. This site may be trying to be accurate, but i believe within the arts (music, film, novels etc) the language and definitions used within the work of fiction are technically more accurate, if you get me. Dark_Wounds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dark wounds (talk • contribs) 15:50, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Special edition DVD
Is Office space - special edition with flair sold in Europe? So far I've only found it on Ebay. Shipment's as much as the DVD itself.  - MB (Talk)  16:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Plot section cleaned up
Some paragraphs were getting a bit too wordy for a plot summary, and so I've cleaned it up. Jon 19:05, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Trivia
This section is chock-full of unsourced references. Notwithstanding the fact that such info should be sourced and referenced - just because you say or would like to say a phrase from a film in your office doesn't make it noteworthy... <FONT STYLE="verdana" COLOR="#000000">Dei</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FF3300">zio</FONT> talk 12:54, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Prior to deletion of items under "popular culture", I'd suggest applying the Google test which may demonstrate the notability of some of the concepts presented in the section. However, it might be a a good idea to reformat the "Trivia" section, either integrating bulleted items into "popular culture" or (such as filing locations) into their own separate paragraphs, with citation. --<font face="Verdana,San-Serif" size="-2"> LeflymanTalk 18:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I see. Or, prior to including / reincluding unsourced trivia in an encyclopedia, why not make sure you can cite your sources? It's the responsibility of the contributor to do so. Not the janitor who seeks to make the page comply with content policies and guidelines. According to provision 3 of Verifiability, an official policy:


 * "3. The obligation to provide a reputable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not on those seeking to remove it."


 * Citing sources is also relevant. And Jimmy Wales goes even further: "I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced." <FONT STYLE="verdana" COLOR="#000000">Dei</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FF3300">zio</FONT> talk 23:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Or, if you're worried about trivial matters sneaking into the encylopedia and mucking things up, you might want to consider focusing on more serious topics than a 6 year old comedy film. Reading a bit further down on WP:V:
 * "...some editors may object if you remove material without giving people a chance to provide references. If you want to request a source for an unsourced statement, a good idea is to move it to the talk page. Alternatively, you may tag the sentence by adding the template, or tag the article by adding  or  ."
 * Generally, however, pop culture articles are treated with a bit more leeway than those on more important issues. In sum, it's silly to bicker over whether usage of "O-face" is verifiable enough to be included as pop-culture/trivia.--<font face="Verdana,San-Serif" size="-2"> LeflymanTalk 23:53, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Apparently they weren't kidding when they said "some editors might object". You're still putting back unsourced statements, which is still anti-policy. But of course, you're right, it's silly to bicker. So, let's follow the above by moving the unsourced statements to the talk page and tagging the article as unsourced. <FONT STYLE="verdana" COLOR="#000000">Dei</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FF3300">zio</FONT> talk 00:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Most of Wikipedia is unsourced; it's principally only when someone contends that some particular controversial statement is unverifiable/untrue that it becomes an issue. In general, I find that lack of citation on fiction articles isn't the main concern; it's whether the particular "trivia" is just mere fancruft or has significance outside of the small interested group. In this case, the "pop culture" material and "trivia" sections overlap. They should probably be rewritten and trimmed; but mass deletion isn't really appropriate--<font face="Verdana,San-Serif" size="-2"> LeflymanTalk 00:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

As a follow-up about trivia, I don't think all those addresses need to be in here. They're really quite unnecessary and very useless trivia. Maybe just leave the names of the buildings and apartment complexes. 128.227.10.216 18:41, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I agree. I think it would be enough to just note that it was shot in Austin, really. Carl.bunderson 06:48, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Unsourced statements
These pop culture trivias have been moved from the article so we can get them sourced and verified as existing in the real world. Others have been tagged for citation.


 * Federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison — refers to a maximum-security federal penitentiary, as opposed to the "resort prisons" that house white-collar criminals.
 * The Fax Machine — In the movie, this appliance's unreliability finally prompts Peter, Samir and Michael to take baseball bats to the device in an open field as "Still" by The Geto Boys plays, in a scene visually referencing a violent episode in Casino. The term Office Space–style, or "Going Office Space on" is used to refer to this type of destruction.
 * PC LOAD LETTER — an actual laser printer error message indicating that the printer needs letter-sized paper, but more generally a catch-all for any nonsensical error message.
 * O-face - refers to the face a man makes during an orgasm; phrase is used by an obnoxious co-worker describing what he is going to show to a new female employee at logistics.
 * Initech — sometimes used as placeholder text in lieu of a PHB-driven company's name.

<FONT STYLE="verdana" COLOR="#000000">Dei</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FF3300">zio</FONT> talk 00:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not really sure what you're hoping for here. We generally don't cite usage of pop-culture phrases, as there is relatively little to be found in the way of "published sources" which will state that X is the origin of Y trivia/phrase usage. In the case of List of snowclones, which I helped organise, I try to verify questionable content, when needed. But common usage tends to slip by uncited. However, we can point to numerous examples of the phrases-- how many would be satisfactory?

From the top:

1. Federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison -- returns 28,000 Google entries, (around 23,000 when you -"Office Space") including: Urban Dictionary
 * "Unfortunately, they turned state's witness against DeLay, so we won't be treated to the sight of top executives getting power-drilled in Federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison." CorporateMofo.com
 * "Oh. My. God. It's one thing to joke about 'Federal Pound-Me-In-The-Ass Prison,' but this article's matter-of-fact presentation exposes the horror."HuffingtonPost.com
 * "if I annoy you online and I don't tell you what my real name is, I have committed a crime and could go to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison for two years." Wonko.com

2. Office Space Style -- returns 11,000+ Google entries (granted, with some false positives):
 * Google videos: Zemetrical.com frustration expression program... Office Space style as well as Office Space Style printer destruction
 * "The printer, I’d beat it up Office Space style." In answer to the question, "What piece of equipment gave you the most trouble during your senior project, and what would you do to destroy it?" University of Wisconsin-Stout Stoutian
 * "fun fact: i smashed a tv in a field with my two white friends, office space style." The John Hopkins Octopodes
 * "The last spot I am reserving for all of my honorable mentions which include making a big toast... and going "Office Space" on a job that you hate." 10 Things Every Guy Should Experience - ESPN.Go.com

3. PC Load Letter -- um, did you see the article?

4. O-face -- Must this be explained? But actually this one has a verifiable source,
 * "Yes, ever since the cult comedy "Office Space" was released and now some ten years after," the actor's immortal 'O-Face' line has stood the test of time: becoming a customary notable quotable for fratboys and disgruntled workers sitting in cubicle everywhere." (Origin of the O-face, TheCheapPop.com interview with actor Greg Pitts)
 * See also, http://oface.com/ (Warning: adult material)

5. Initech - returns 102,000 Google entries (although, there seems to be an actual UK-based company, http://initech.co.uk and a Korean company http://www.initech.com)
 * This claim I don't know 'bout, but there's plenty of tchotchkes you can buy with "Initech" emblasoned on them at: Redswinglinestapler.com

So there ya go, how's about since you wanted me to do all this research for you, that you go ahead and work on "fixing" the article? --<font face="Verdana,San-Serif" size="-2"> LeflymanTalk 03:02, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Good work fella, I'll do just that later on, 4 world cup games to get out of the way first... <FONT STYLE="verdana" COLOR="#000000">Dei</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FF3300">zio</FONT> talk 09:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Aha, the hypnotic power of the World Cup defeats even Wikipedia addiction. Must...avoid...watching...ball.--<font face="Verdana,San-Serif" size="-2"> LeflymanTalk 17:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I've added the sources. Still a few cite tags remaining. It's all well and good saying "We (btw, who is we? WikiProject:Pop Culture Trivia?) generally don't cite usage of pop-culture phrases" but that's still no defence against policy, and if another editor asks for such refs to be sourced, then sourced they should be. My policy-guided edits to this article have been reverted several times, and while I accept others don't love to see the deletion of what they consider to be good info, I'm now looking at several newly-sourced pieces of trivia. That's progress. Think about it like this: "pop culture" - pop = popular, hence sourceable unless there's a really good reason. I'm not looking for references from MSNBC or the New Yorker here, just something to show that these really are "pop" enough to be on the radar somewhere. The huge array of unsourced trivia on WP will probably never be entirely sourced, but we should strive to source as much of it as possible. As proven here, it's not hard. <FONT STYLE="verdana" COLOR="#000000">Dei</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FF3300">zio</FONT> talk 01:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

In the movie outline, it says Milton found his way to the "Caribbean" at the end. By the accent of the cocktail server, I would say that it was definitely Mexico. Yes, I realize some parts of Mexico may be considered "Caribbean," but "Caribbean" is generally reserved for places like St. Lucia or Puerto Rico. [unknown anon editor]


 * Movie outlines and even detailed movie scripts sometimes get superseeded during filming. The cocktail server definately has a Mexican accent. Perhaps someone more knowlegable about the Caribbean would know how common (or uncommon) it was for Mexicans to be working at Caribbean resorts C. 1999. Jon 15:35, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Gringo
"gringo" is a term used mainly in Mexico to refer, insultingly or demeaningly, to United States citizens; it doesn't apply to any "white guy" as the trivia blurb would seem to imply. For instance, a german or a frenchman wouldn't be called "gringo"; neither would a british person. Perhaps this should be clarified? Roadmr 16:36, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Boston
''An early release of the film in the Boston area left out the hypnotherapist scene, as well as the subplot with Peter’s ex-girlfriend “Anne.” The conclusion was also different, with the co-workers splitting the money. While this more hardened story line resonated well with Bostonians, a softer story line was eventually preferred by the director.''

What's the basis for calling that "hardened"? The last sentence is unnecessary.

Is it just me, or am i right in thinking that if you took out the hypnotherapist scene, the ex girlfirend, and altered the ending you have a different movie right? just a thought. what would be the point?Dark_Wounds 16:00, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Alternate ending
I once read an interview with Mike Judge -- possibly in Entertainment Weekly -- in which he said that after the film was done he realized that the ending was wrong and what the ending should have been. The interviewer did not ask Judge what his preferred ending would have been. As the first half of Office Space is one of my favorite comedies, but the second half is poor, I have always wondered what the answer to this question is. Has anyone seen Judge spell this out anywhere? (If so, it would also be good for the article.)

Archaic 02:02, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup of Trivia
I did a clean up of the trivia section to re-organize it and integrate it into the other areas of the article.Slavlin 20:27, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Bug, or sheer volume?
However, it takes $305,326.13 in one day due to a small bug in the virus... I was under the impression that the sheer volume of money passing through the system is the cause of the large amount of fractional pennies accrued. Did they actually say in the dialogue that it was a bug, or did they say something like, "It must be a bug!", which leaves room for doubt? --205.201.141.146 22:01, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Michael Bolton says something like "I must have put a decimal point in the wrong place. I always do something like that!" So I always assumed it was a bug. Slavlin 22:24, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, it's obvious the chars believe it's a bug. As to weather it actually was or not, that depends upon weather they intended to round up to whole pennies on every single transaction passing thru the system. (Note the 13 cents at the end of the balance). If so then then the anon editor above is technically corect, but this shouldn't be stated in the article because the chas don't recongize it. There's still in fact two ways a decimal point could have been involed. The first is if they intended to only take up to 1/10th of a penny at a time. (Or some other faction). And the other is if they intended that only 10% of the time they take the fractional penny. (Or some other percent). Jon 15:45, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Soundtrack
The music of this movie should be posted. The soundtrack contains a lot of gangster rap/hip-hop, especially for a movie that is a satire of white culture. Maybe a few words about the usage of this particualr music? <font color="Green">Steamrunner 12:42, 24 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I was surprised I couldn't find any mention of Rap or the Soundtrack in the article, it's one of the movie's more hilarious points. LikuX 11:34, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe it actually needs mentioning because the choice of music is what makes many of the scenes funny. I know this is probs going to count as OR, but surely the opening scene with Michael rapping along to Scarface, then the irony as he locks the doors etc as the black flower seller walks by is only possible due to the choice of music? TheTrojanHought (talk) 11:14, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Bosses
I reverted the change from "Peter's boss" back to "Peter's main boss" as he specifically states that he has multiple bosses. Slavlin 19:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 8 bosses, to be exact. Miles Blues 04:38, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

This has to be be vanadalism
"The Shedd Aquarium in Chicago, Illinois houses a collection of gorilla paintings by Madelyne Thompson; one of which is a large silver back ape banging a red, Swingline stapler in a jungle version of an office."

I'm going to remove this, replace it if you want to.128.211.254.142 02:12, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That's just random vandalism. Miles Blues 04:38, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

It's a Printer not a Fax machine.
A fax Machine would have a telephone stylye key pad. This printer only has four buttons.

Please change the referances to a printer not a fax.

Thanks
 * Actually, you are incorrect on that. It is a fax machine. Many business fax machines have their phone key pads located where they are either covered or out of the way. If you note, when the machine is destroyed, there is a handset attached to it. If you can think of a reason for a printer to have a handset, more power to you. Also, please remember to sign your posts. Slavlin 14:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

First off I want to apologize if my comment came across as rude and/or too blunt. That being said I watched my VHS copy in slow motion recently and I saw no handset attached to it.

I am almost certain that this is a printer. Do you know exactly what model or make it is? I tried to search for it but I can not find it. Surely there is some one out there who is proud to say they own the same machine…

I would love to have this verified once and for all, but for right now I’m sticking to my guns and I believe it is a Printer and not a fax. In fact I think you bring up a good point and the absence of said handset is further evidence that this is a printer.

I’m new to this wiki thing so I’m not sure how to sign…

Evmsmd09


 * It is absolutely a printer and there is no handset, no keypad, and nothing indicating it is a fax machine. Slavlin, please provide a screenshot identifying such a handset please.  Cburnett 19:01, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree it is a printer as I always thought, and in a Who Want's to be A Millionaire Episode (Double Strip 4106) a contestant guesses the object they destroy is a Photo Copier and is eliminated from the game, the correct answer is listed as a printer. See screenshot http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/beck162/00_00_00_00.jpg Robert Beck 19:22, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of how you analyze what model/type of office machine it may appear to be in the film, Peter refers to it as a fax machine in the scene where he is trying to convince them to do the bank scheme (watch it again). This was first pointed out to me by the website redswinglinestapler.com - see Quiz question #9. We can assume this is how it was written/conceived and not some "intentional mistake" attributed to the character or an error by the actor speaking it. Therefore, as far as the context of the film is concerned, it's a Fax machine. I will work on updating this in the "Popular Culture" section in the next couple days unless there is some sudden revelation preventing me from doing so. I will mention the fact that it is assumed to be a printer by most viewers of the film, particularly an HP printer which came up with the original "PC Load Letter" error message. But early HP fax machines also would spit out these same error messages. I've also personally used or seen office fax machines which had no handset (either with speakerphone or no voice function at all). So, it kind of makes the original argument moot. Bsharkey 14:57, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the "PC Load Letter" suggests an HP machine. HP has intermittantly sold recieve-only FAX machine options for laser printers, so both positions could be "correct". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paulvdg (talk • contribs) 19:35, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Spongebob's Office Space Tribute
Sorry for not being logged in, I lost my account information, and I'm lazy. I'm going to put this out here and let the people who are editing the page decide if they want it in or not. A fourth season episode of Spongebob Squarepants titled "Selling Out" appears to be a tribute to Office Space. A businessman walks into the Krusty Krab and offers to buy the restaurant, which Mr. Krab accepts. The corporation quickly renovates the restaurant into a "Krabby O' Monday's" (Monday possibly as in "case of the Mondays") with the TGIF style decor also seen in Chotchkie's. Spongebob and Squidward meet their new manager in Lumburgh style glasses who appears to be a combination of Lumburg, Brian (overly cheerful Chotchkie's employee) and the Chotchkie's manager. The new manager threatens to send Squidward to human resources if he doesn't start following the company guidelines on cheerfulness. Squidward begins to works in fear with a smile on his face. J 24.21.209.135 19:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Samir's Last name
Changed last name to "Nayanajaad". I put the subtitles on in the DVD and that's how it was spelled 64.132.61.217 16:02, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The Stapler -- Discontinued or never made?
This article, under In Popular Culture, implies that the red swingline stapler never existed prior to Office Space. But the article about Swingline says that it hadn't been made "for several years," implying that it existed but had been discontinued.

So what's the skinny? Neither assertion is sourced... Anybody have a WP:RS? --Jaysweet 16:12, 29 June 2007 (UTC)


 * If I'm not mistaken, that particular stapler was had not yet been made by the time the movie was released. Swingline did make a red stapler, but it looked different.  They do make that same model now, because of the movie.  JN322 07:28, 25 July 2007 (UTC)