Talk:Officers of the Kingdom of Jerusalem

Hey Adam, do you have a list anywhere of baillis of the kingdom? This post, when it existed at least, was generally seen as the highest officer of the Kingdom, above the Constable. john k 04:47, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * La Monte's lists didn't include baillis, but I found a list in "Les Familles d'Outremer" by du Cange...if that's the same guy as Charles du Fresne, sieur du Cange, it must be extremely old (the book I was using is relatively recent, printed in 1869), so I'm not sure if it is still accurate, but I'll add it anyway. Incidentally, that book is huge and has lists of the holders of every office and lordship, so I might be able to fill out the Vassals page a bit more too. Adam Bishop 18:56, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Possible error
Hi. I think there is an error somewhere in the list. Balian of Ibelin is listed as being chamberlain 1183-85, but constable 1268-77 and Co-bailiff 1228-1240. My guess is, that the first is correct - his entry lists him as living 1134-1193, and the Battle of Jerusalem 1187. However, I am no historian, and cannot give a conclusive answer.


 * Balian (and John) were popular names among the Ibelins, so there are a lot of them and they all held various posts. It's not an error but I removed the link for the 13th century constable, since the Balian article is about the 12th century guy. Adam Bishop 01:59, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Error(s) in Bailiffs
The current list denotes Raymond II of Tripoli as a Bailiff from 1173-1177, but this is not possible as he died in 1152. Is this possibly his son, Raymond III of Tripoli? Also, Guy of Lusignan is listed as being a Bailiff in 1177, but Kings of Jerusalem says he was regent in 1183-1184. Was the office of Bailiff only occupied when there was a regency? I'm not sure of the precendents here, so I don't want to make a mistake, but these seem like major errors.--Eric 22:06, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Raymond II is a typo for Raymond III, I've fixed that. But the list says Reynald of Chatillon was baliff in 1177, and Guy in 1183-84, so that matches the Kings list. I'm not sure if bailiff and regent are necessarily exactly the same office, but I don't think Reynald was really ever "regent" like Raymond or Guy was. In 1177 Reynald led the army at Montgisard, but Baldwin IV was reasonably healthy for a couple of years at that point, so he didn't need a regent. (If there is an error it may be in La Monte's original list.) Adam Bishop 22:19, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Possible errors in chancellors
You add : Frederick, Archbishop of Tyre (c. 1150) as chancellor but it seems that the Frederick named in the charter RRH262 is not the chancellor, but just a chaplain (his title is in abbreviated form). Hans Eberhard Mayer, in article "Studies in the History of Queen Melisende of Jerusalem", Dumbarton Oaks Papers, vol. 26 (1972), p.139, thinks that he is just a chaplain of the queen, as there was probably no chancellot at this moment for many reasons he argues for in previous pages of the same article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:41D0:FE75:FB00:290:F5FF:FE8B:4EBF (talk) 08:54, 14 May 2014 (UTC)