Talk:Oh hell

Variant named Pasanya, Pasagna, Pasaña, Pysanya, Pasanja, Piss-On-Ya
A friend of mine vaguely recalls playing what amounts to an Oh Hell variant that goes by one of the names in the title or something similar with elderly relatives decades ago: 52 cards, 4 players, everyone for themselves, diminishing hand size 13-1, spades is always trump, the "Basic" scoring as shown in the article (1 point per trick plus 10 for matching your bid), screw the dealer on bidding. Does anyone recognize the name based on the above attempts to recreate it phonetically? Also, what are the "correct" rules? (Of course, it's our deck of cards, so we can play however we darn well please. I just want to see if anyone recognizes this variant/game.) Ryanker 17:29 23 August 2014 (UTC)

This is known in Hungary as rikiki or ri-ki-ki with a slight variation, can someone add this?
The variation is that all players bid at the same time the dealer counts to 3 or says ri - ki - ki and everybody shows their bids with their fingers. BTW rikiki does not mean anything in Hungarian. Don't know the origin of the name or command. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.59.9.186 (talk) 08:11, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Easy Random Chance?
What is the meaning of Easy Random Chance in the info box? --210.0.229.224 (talk) 04:50, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

No title
We have played this game for years as "Mormon Bridge". I am adding that name to the list of alternates and linking to this article from that name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.182.235.15 (talk • contribs)

number of hands
As played at LASFS, a four-player game goes 3, ..., 12, NT, NT, NT, NT, 12, ..., 3 &mdash; each player deals a no-trump hand in the middle of the game, and the 1- and 2-card hands are not played because they're too chaotic to be interesting. (Exception: a five-player game includes the 2-card hands, so that the same player does not suffer the first and last "dealer disadvantage".) &mdash;Tamfang 22:27, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, at LASFS, a five-handed game has a hand of 10 with trump, five hands of 10 cards in no-trump (with two cards out of play) then back to trump.JDZeff (talk) 06:56, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Steven Spielberg is a player. Hm, did he learn it from a LASFS member? —Tamfang (talk) 08:38, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Extra-profane names
Does this game really go by the name of "Oh Cunt"? It seems unlikely to be a widely used name because (1) "cunt" is such a strongly taboo word in most circles and (2) it's not used much as a general expletive. A bit of googling failed to turn up any sign of the game being known by this name, other than in copies of this article. I am skeptical. The edit that introduced the "Oh Cunt" name also introduced "Oh Fuck" and "Fuck your Neighbour", both of which are more plausible but neither of which, if really a name for this game, has left any trace I could find with Google. I suspect that either 220.238.44.174 (on 2005-11-14) was, er, playing games, or else s/he has run across a small group of determined and eccentric antibowdlerizers and taken their nomenclature a bit too seriously. (For what it's worth, most edits from 220.238.44.174 seem respectable.) Anyone got any evidence that the game is ever actually called "Oh Fuck", "Oh Cunt" or "Fuck your Neighbour"? If not, I propose to remove at least OC and FYN. (Maybe not OF, just because a game whose most usual name is "Oh Hell" must quite often be antibowdlerized and "oh fuck" is such a common expletive, so I bet it gets called that sometimes.) Gareth McCaughan 00:45, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I've removed all three; if anyone has evidence for any of them, I suggest putting it here as well as reinstating the name(s) in question. Gareth McCaughan 02:37, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * In my family we learned the game as "Estimation" and there was an extra round, "Half Blind". I've added both to the article. 91.105.33.24 19:12, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * When I played the game at University of Manitoba in the 1960's we called it either Fuck Your Buddy or Screw Your Neighbour, making that "Fuck your Neighbour" name seem plausible as well. BTW, why is user Cashewbrick undoing perfectly sensible edits in the name of counter-vandalism? Eugenwpg (talk) 05:31, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * We call it "oh bugger". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.39.11.68 (talk) 01:16, 19 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Whatever "we call it" is irrelevant. It's what reliable English-language sources use and that's almost invariable 'Oh Hell' today, although Arnold insists on calling it Nomination Whist, which would be fine except that there is another game with that name. Bermicourt (talk) 18:39, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Talk
I have always played this game with 8 cards (down the river, up the river), not the 7 that is mentioned in this write-up. I suppose the only difference is that you can play with up to 6 players instead of 7. Also, I've only ever played by scoring method "#2." Nonetheless, great game! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.99.231.207 (talk) 19:54, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * What is missing here are some of the main joys of the game - the name comes from the very unpredicatibility, which makes bidding very difficult and can frustrate to the amusement of all. 1. the game is good for 3,4,5 players. 2. it's good for mixed ability or family groups: the inability of weak players to predict their bids accurately makes it hard for experienced AND inexperienced players alike. 3. Play varies from trick-winning to trick-losing strategies.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.39.11.68 (talk) 01:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Should profanity under the "Names" section be uncensored?
While reading this article I noticed that a couple of list items under the Names section were censored ("F***"). Not only is this inconsistent with an earlier reference to an alternative name ("Rat Fuck"), I read this article that states words should not be censored when they are accurate. An earlier section on this Talk page already proved that these are accurate terms for this topic, but they are censored. Should this be changed? --OrangeCreeper (talk) 02:16, 11 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Regardless of the apparent censorship, most of those names were uncited, so they've gone. Bermicourt (talk) 18:40, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Variant Name Oh Shit?
I know the list has Oh Merde and Oh Mierda, but I'd only exclusively heard the game called Oh shit before now. Should that be added to the list of other names?


 * I've sourced the main names used in card game books and by pagat.com and removed those that are uncited. This is meant to be an English encyclopaedia so we shouldn't be listing every name under the sun, especially those that are simply "house names" or "what we always call it around here." Nor should the list contain the game's name in every language around the world. All we need are the main examples used in the English-speaking world and verified by reliable sources. My initial research shows that, even though the game was originally called Oh! Well - a name that continued to appear until the 1970s - by far the most common name today, on both sides of the Atlantic, is Oh Hell. Bermicourt (talk) 18:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Non-notable content removed
I've removed a lot of non-notable, unsourced text about purported world tournaments that were probably very small, unofficial competitions with grand sounding names, as well as lists of scoring systems and other uncited rule variations. I plan to expand the history section a little and may add another set of rules which uses ascending and descending trick sequences, although I want to check if there are other sources for it before I do. Bermicourt (talk) 18:01, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Oh Hell game
The following has been moved from my talk page to enable wider discussion here: Bermicourt (talk) 09:35, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

 Here are some references for the Turkish version of Oh Hell; https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohel https://www.iskambilci.com/ohel-nasil-oynanir/ https://benimleoyna.wordpress.com/2016/09/05/ohel-nasil-oynanir/ You can google "Ohel Kuralları" for much more. I wouldn't think of adding a new version, but I was suprised that no version in the current page has the "10 + square of bid" scoring system. It does add interesting twists in late game where more tricks are available. I did come across a few web pages in english where squared scoring is mentioned. One sample: https://www.pagat.com/exact/ohhell.html#scoring-vars — Preceding unsigned comment added by CemEgri (talk • contribs) 20:37, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

The following is a copy of the unsourced text removed:



Ohel
... as the game is known in Turkey. It's almost always played with 4 players. Some combine first two to play a total of 12 + 8 = 20 rounds
 * Scoring: Players who achieve their bid gets 10 + the square of the tricks they made. (0 tricks get 10, 2 tricks get 14, 4 tricks get 26...) This incentivizes high bids. In a special case for the 13 card hands, a succesful zero bid receives 35 points. No reductions for missing the bid.
 * Rounds: Game is played in ascending order from 1 to 13. After 6th round, the last bidder is not allowed to bid the value that would allow everybody to make their bids. For the 13 card rounds, slight variations are observed:
 * 1) Four rounds of no-trump hands are played
 * 1) Four rounds of hands are played with pre-determined trump
 * 1) Four rounds of hands are played with the first player declaring the trump, before the bids are made.

My initial comments are that, although French Wiki is not a valid source, if the other two sources are considered sufficiently reliable we could add a section for non-English variants such as Turkish Ohel with a brief summary of the main differences. Currently we only list the different names. What do other editors think? Bermicourt (talk) 09:46, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Quotation
hi, I can see why you removed the text from the infobox because it was uncited, but it is cited in the text by a WP:RS. Would you be happy to re-instate it with that citation? I agree we don't want everyone's personal opinion, but that of two notable games authors is surely helpful. Cheers. Bermicourt (talk) 19:18, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Oh, sorry about that, I missed the context for it.
 * Infobox card game doesn't give any guidance on usage of the subtitle field, but the equivalent one on Infobox game gives the example of "The Fast-Dealing Property Trading Game" for Monopoly, which I assume is printed on the box.
 * Review quotes, even very eminent ones, don't seem quite right for an infobox, to me. But I say that on instinct rather than invoking any particular policy. Belbury (talk) 19:44, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree we need to be careful, but there are so many games out there that a pointer (recommendation or brief description that captures the essence) from an expert is useful to those weighing up whether to learn a new game or not.
 * Interestingly John McLeod has now added "recommended" 2, 3 and 4 player games to pagat.com. Of course, there's a degree of subjectivity, but few people will have played as many games as he or have his sharp insight into what works well and what doesn't. It will be interesting to see if Oh Hell makes it to his recommended round/multi-player games. Cheers. Bermicourt (talk) 21:28, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not convinced that this is really the job of the infobox, when Wikipedia doesn't do this for films or books or other cultural artefacts. If a quote is worth including, it would seem better handled with dedicated "quote=", "quoting=" fields that put the text into quotemarks and attributed it to a particular person. Traditional card games do not have subtitles in the same way that something like Monopoly does.
 * But if this is the status quo across card game articles, I'll respect that. I've added the text back with a footnote. Belbury (talk) 10:27, 11 March 2023 (UTC)