Talk:Ohio Wesleyan University/Archive 4

Good article nomination
I'd hate to see this article fail. So here are a few points, mainly about appearance and could be browser-related:


 * OhioWesleyanCampus.gif is not properly tagged.
 * The background in Wesleyanseal.jpg does not match the table color; same issue with Bishop.gif.
 * Beeghly.jpg is not placed correctly.
 * The Presidents of Ohio Wesleyan University table needs some work.

I also think the introduction contains a little too much. - Eagletalk 03:06, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Needs organization
There's a lot of good information here, but I feel it is a bit unorganized. For instance, the academic section could include the list of available majors. Right now I feel the article is overwhelming and hard to navigate. BryanD 16:48, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe one good step in that direction would be to move nearly all the paragraphs about the buildings to a new article. I haven't seen another college's main article on WP that goes into such detail. Bob schwartz 21:38, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, Bob. I moved those paragraphs, and I think it works better. Should other information also be moved to separate articles (president list, major list)? BryanD 18:33, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I just got done with a little more organization. I was left with two images that I can't find a good place for. I'm not sure that the political leanings picture is relevant enough to keep (Wikipedia is not the place for unpublished research). But I'll put them both here in case someone else finds a good use for them. --BryanD 20:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Just got done with some work in the History section. I removed two paragraphs that were nearly directly plagiarized from copyrighted webpages. I'll list them here in the hopes that I or someone else can incorporate the information into the article someday. I think there ought to be a whole section on Greek life as well. -- BryanD 15:32, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * From
 * In 1870, Ohio Wesleyan University trustees banned fraternities because they were "unfavorable to morality, harmony and economy." Supporters of the Greek system argued that the best educational centers were those where fraternities flourished. Riding the crest of the re-instatement of fraternities, three sororities began and had a short life in the early 1880s before they were disbanded by a faculty edict. Anti-Greek voices cooled in 1888, when President Charles Payne, a fraternity man himself, announced, "It is the policy of Ohio Wesleyan to recognize, utilize and evaluate fraternities." Under this umbrella, sororities reorganized themselves as local clubs with non-Greek names; the women themselves, however, voted the clubs out of existence in 1912.


 * From
 * Ohio Wesleyan continued to grow in the 20th century to about 3/4 of its current size. Debates over the presence of sororities and fraternities emerged and continued well into the middle of the century. The World Wars had a financial impact on the school: half of the male student population served during World War I, and the student population once again decreased during World War II. Students were allowed to declare a major for the first time in 1919. The Great Depression caused financial difficulties for the college -- but administrators trimmed the budget, and the school continued to survive. During the 1960s and 1970s, student unrest led to the students having more of a say in campus decision-making. As a result of the protests, the university modified requirements that students attend religious services while also placing less of a focus on religion in education, in addition to offering new courses. Economic concerns and plans for the future have led university administrators to institute a number of fund-raising campaigns in recent decades.


 * Also these sentences were unverifiable, and in my opinion, the second statement is unlikely.
 * In 1850, four young women matriculated for the regular college course at the Ohio Wesleyan Female College. Three of the four graduated in 1854 and became the first women in America to receive AB degrees.

Methodist affiliation
I don't understand it, but it seems that whenever someone adds the Methodist Colleges category to this article, it gets removed by a newly registered user. Froshowu, Rossdaniel, whoever. These various (different?) people bother to register on WP just to do a quick category edit? Too weird.

And weirder still since OWU does state (on owu.edu/about.html): "Founded by Methodists in 1842, OWU maintains an active affiliation with The United Methodist Church and is recognized nationally for welcoming students of all religious faiths", and OWU is listed on the UMC General Board of Higher Education and Ministry site at gbhem.org/gbhem/colleges.html. Bob schwartz 21:38, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * As a student at OWU, I don't hear the word Methodist and Wesleyan in the same sentence at all and I see it more on this page than ever before. Your user page tells me that you are fascinated with the Methodist tradition but the OWU administration has steered in a different direction for almost 40 years when the UMC relinquished ownership and transferred its assets to the College’s Board of Trustees. There are only 4 UMC members on the Board and they have no voting power. To list the affiliation will suit your strong Methodist preferences only, not the current state of affairs at OWU. Should we list every aspect of the college's history under a separate category if it doesn't play a prominent role at OWU these days? I think not. Rossdaniel 22:05, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * What is interesting is that there are 4 UMC members on the board. There aren't 4 UMC members (voting or non-voting) on the board of Rhodes College or Harvard University. Why aren't there 4 UMC members on the board of these institutions? Well, probably because they aren't affiliated with the UMC. OWU does claim to be affiliated with the UMC -- they don't claim to be operated by or owned by the UMC. I'm not aware of any colleges actually owned by The Southern Baptist Convention, The Presbyterian Church, or the United Methodist Church -- yet there are dozens of institutions affiliated with these protestant denominations. I won't go into the Orthodox churches. I have reinserted the category because, no matter how tenous the affiliation might be, OWU is affiliated with the UMC. --Chiacomo talk 05:42, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

It happened again! Anyway, there seem to be to be 2 truths here. First, Methodism is not a major factor in daily life at OWU; it is not a bible college. Second, OWU does have an affiliation of some kind with the UMC. Perhaps the common ground here is to state both of those truths in the article, and include a bit of the history that Rossdaniel refers to. P.S. I'm not Methodist and don't find it "fascinating." I just put the OWU quote & UMC URL in the scrap area on my user page to find them later. Stuff on WP often gets deleted. Bob schwartz 17:34, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Your opinions are well-manifested by all of your edits. The truth was spelled out above by user Rossdaniel. Rcct 16:41, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi Bob schwartz:

You are correct. It happens again and someone will remove it again and again. I am guessing you are not familiar with Ohio Wesleyan and its student. I am a student at OWU and I can tell you that it will be happening if you keep adding it because it does not reflect the truth. A similar tension existed on campus late last year. There were about 10 people from the Campus Crusade on Christ organization that stirred a lot of controversy on campus and it resulted in a lot of problems with the administration itself. The faculty members are unhappy every time the chaplain (who also brands himself an interfaith one) brings up something remotely protestant in the campus discourse. For example the service initiative funded by the Lilly Endowment 3 years ago. Most of the trustees severely criticized the chaplain for his language in general as well.

The truth is that the Methodist affiliation of Ohio Wesleyan University is non-existent in practice. It is only a historic connection that manifests these days on campus with the focus on political activism and service.

Students are very secular. The Secular Student Alliance has more members than the Methodist student group. You will see a lot of people removing what you keep adding because you seem to misinterpreting a historic connection. This and the fact that it is not a big part of campus life at all. Rossdaniel 06:49, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

One thing struck me as remark-worthy in his comment. It was the predictable (and unpredictably unconvincing) moment when he tries to say, you know, I-just-put-the-OWU-quote-and-UMC-URL-in-the-scrap-area-on-my-user-page-to-find-them-later-Stuff-on-WP-often-gets-deleted. To which I say: yeah, right. Who are these users who edit only Methodist pages and seem to know more about Ohio Wesleyan's affiliation. Did I not go there or was a blind? Faria 19:55, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
 * To Bob schwartz, et al.:

One thing to note: The archives of Ohio United Methodism are based entirely at Ohio Wesleyan University, as well as funding provided by the Church. The UMC of Ohio is definately involved actively at OWU. The UMC also provides scholarship funds as well. Minimizing what they do, simply because you don't personally see it does not mean that the Methodist church is not a daily part of the University. Although, they work far more in the background these days than they once did. primarly because of the UMCs policy of support and tollerance for all people and religions (The UMC opened OWU to all far ahead of it's time). Do you honestly believe that you know everything and every group that has anything to do with Ohio Wesleyan? Seriously - your arguments against it sound as biggoted against religion in general as the homophobic comments that you rail against. Bob
 * To all:


 * What you say MAY be correct. But I assure you, OHIO Wesleyan is very much affiliated with the UMC, always has been -- and probably always WILL be!  Those who have problems with my edits must be mistaken.  Though I know Dickinson less well, I do know it, too, is still affiliated with the UMC!!  These are correct and accurate categories for these schools!!  Please contace the universities themselves if you have any doubt whatsoever!!  Ohio Wesleyan's affiliation with UMC is much more than nonexistant, it is celebrated every year at the East and West Ohio Annual Conference meetings, it is supported through scholarships and other financial aid, the children of UM pastors receive significant support because of this affiliation -- I could go ON AND ON!  OWU is most definately a UM school, just like Baldwin Wallace, Otterbein, Ohio Northern and Mount Union (to name but 4 other examples)  Thanks. Pastorwayne 12:48, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Wesleyantime
Template:Wesleyantime has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. BryanD 20:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Gay-friendly information
I moved the gay-friendly sentence down into the General Information section yesterday, and I noticed that someone added it into the introduction again today. Since it's already in the article later, I'm going to take it out of the introduction. My rationale was that, while it is important information to include, it is not a distinguising feature of the university (at least in my eyes). I'm willing to entertain a discussion, though, if people think it should be up in the introduction. Thanks -- BryanD 13:43, 8 June 2006 (UTC) Being 1 of 80 presenters at a 2005 gay college fair is a start, but do we have any further references to support OWU being especially gay-friendly? Bob schwartz 17:41, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * That is precisely where it should be. I tried that once and got labelled as a homophobe, so just be careful if User:Faria comes calling. Indrian 16:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 80 presenters at a gay college fair is more than a start. There are more than 3000 colleges in the U.S. 80 is a very small number. Maybe 2%? Remember, going to such a fair is actually funded by the college itself so it shows commitment. Rossdaniel 06:55, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

"Distinctive advisory system" question
Does anyone know how the advisory system is supposed to be "distinctive", or how it is related to Oxford? This seems like more "brochure" writing, but I don't want to remove it until I'm sure. BryanD 22:27, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

School Motto
The school's motto is In lumine tuo videbimus lumen : "In Your Light We Shall See the Light" Is it a coincidence that its the same as Columbia University Whats the story behind it?

Misnamed foreign language pages
Most of the foreign language translations translate to Wesleyan University. Obviously, Ohio Wesleyan University is not Wesleyan University. Whoever wrote the foreign language pages, (or understands these languages,) please change them. They communicate erroneous information. 24.2.244.245 05:15, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * All pages mention Ohio as the location of the school or translate to 'Ohio Wesleyan University'. Any confusion about which school the page is about unless you are completely unfamiliar with the schools (in which case any mixing of stereotypes can not occur) is thus impossible.
 * No offense meant, but this is exceptionally poor reasoning. The fact remains: this school's name is not Wesleyan University; it is Ohio Wesleyan University. The foreign language pages about Ohio Wesleyan University should reflect the proper name of the university. Misleadingly, these foreign language pages reflect the name of an arguably more well-known university in Connecticut. Frankly, for foreign language Wikipedians, this misnaming might also engender confusion with one of the other 25 (approx.) universities in the U.S.A. named Wesleyan (i.e. Virginia, Texas, etc.) Recall that foreign language users might not be as familiar with America's myriad Wesleyans as English speakers. After all, Wesleyan University is not a household word, like Harvard or Oxford... Seriously, do you expect, for example, Indonesian readers to be "completely familiar" with Wesleyan U, or Ohio Wesleyan U? In conclusion, we must rename the pages. Foreign language experts, let's get on it. 24.2.244.245 05:05, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I will not be the one judging your linguistic capabilities though I do appreciate you calling my reasoning poor. Ohio in its contextual use here serves as a modifier. That is to say that Wesleyan University of Ohio and Ohio Wesleyan University are linguistically equivalent just like language problems is equivalent to problems of the language. This gets reflected in OWU's Latin seal Wesleiana Universitas Ohioensis Delawarensi created in 1844 that literally translates to Wesleyan University in Delaware, Ohio. While I am not claiming that we should start using equivalent linguistic terms in English, I am pretty sure that there are good translations in a foreign language and bad literal translations. In any case, I looked at most of the translations that you brought up and all include Ohio in the foreign language version as well as as the original name in English Ohio Wesleyan University so I don't expect anyone to confuse schools here when the page specifically mentions In English: Ohio Wesleyan University. Rcct 17:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, I did a little research, and I think I understand what 24.2.244.245 is getting at. It's that the titles of many of the pages in other languages are the equivalent of "Wesleyan University," which they shouldn't be.  Furthermore, searching for "Wesleyan" in the French, Spanish, and German Wikipedias (the ones I checked) redirects to the Ohio Wesleyan page, which it probably shouldn't.  Not a huge problem, since as Rcct points out, the text of the article always refers to Ohio, but a problem nonetheless.  BryanD 21:21, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you, BryanD. That's the crux of it. Also, Rcct, as to your reasoning abilities, I apologize. 24.2.244.245 21:37, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Founding

 * User:Pastorwayne added 1841 as the first year of the school with the use of Wikipedia Category. I think this is factually incorrect, in addition to other things that he is trying to insert without discussion. Isn't the college founded in 1844? Remrem 00:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)


 * the organizational meeting of the founders took place in 1841, though the school did not actually offer its first classes until some years later. This comes directly from the minutes of those meetings published by the Ohio Conference of the ME church, one of the founding organizers.  Thanks.  Pastorwayne 12:50, 13 September 2006 (UTC)