Talk:Oi! punk ideology

There is a problem with all of these Punk ideology pages in that Punk does not have an ideology, so all of its off-shoots don't have ideologies either. They have cultural traits, but not ideology. There is a difference. Punk & its off-shoots have been used by different political movements from Anarchism to Communism to Liberalism to Nationalism, but these are all Punk being exploited for an external political movement's gain. As far as i can tell, Punk is apolitical and non-ideological. It is cultural & even then, it is a temporary & very young culture. Anyhow, i think that needs to be said before these articles can even be addressed. Sean P. Aaberg 06:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * You're free to that opinion, but the facts don't bear it out. True, the first American punk bands weren't particularly political other than being generally anti-establishment, but that changed later on, especially in the UK. Spylab 16:50, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Sean P. Aaberg 18:02, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's true that bands became increasingly political, but it was always due to outside political forces. You'd be hard pressed to find a Punk band that became political that didn't have outside political pressures & direction. As far as the earlier political elements go, with the Clash for example, they had socialist backing. This was going on across England with Socialist issues being pushed in popular music. We always get the whole National Front pushing into the Skinhead scene story, including the idea that Skinhead is ultimately apolitical, but with Punk, there isn't an acknowledged Socialist push into the subculture, even though it is obvious. I imagine it is because the push is still going on & Punk is still a leftist tool.


 * The idea that punk and Oi! bands only became political because they were pushed into it by political organizations is nonsense. You have it backwards. The bands were political on their own terms, and various organizions latched onto them because of that. Of course not all Oi! bands were overtly political, but most of them sung about issues like class, unemployment, the government and the police. That's politics, or "street socialism" as people like Micky Fitz or Garry Bushell would call it back in the day.Spylab 18:53, 5 July 2006 (UTC)Spylab


 * You might be right, maybe, but i'm exploring this. Bushell was actively working with the socialists at that point & used his media access to create Oi! which would suddenly have this socialist element. He however, (like Mussolini) has swung to the right. Anyhow, I very may well have this backwards, but i'm not sure yet. I'm working on a larger project exploring this. Anyhow. Sean P. Aaberg 04:28, 6 July 2006 (UTC)