Talk:Okiek people

Akie/ Akiek /Ogiek/ Okiek/ Mosiro

 * The Akiek, who live in Tanzania, are ethnically and linguistically related to the Ogiek of Kenya, and for that reason they are often considered a division of the Ogiek (e.g. by Corinne Kratz (1999), online version), and also Franz Rottland (1982).
 * Based on Rainer en Vossen (1977) and Rottland (1982) I would consider this Ethnologue page erroneous. Mosiro is an Akie clan name according to both of these sources, so that would make Mosiro a subgroup of Akie.
 * Finally, I think the Akie and Akiek are just the same. The introductory paragraph of Ogiek language, based on Rottland (1982), speaks of the Akiek of Kinare (Kenya) and the Akiek of Tanzania, but the distinction is only made there because the two shifted to different languages. The articles Akie and Akiek therefore will have to be merged. I wouldn't know what the best name is, although I would tend to go for Akie.
 * Summarizing: Okiek (or Ogiek, as the people themselves prefer) is the most inclusive term. The Akiek are often distinguished from the Ogiek because they live somewhat removed from the Kenyan Ogiek groups. And Mosiro is the least inclusive term, being confined only to a small portion of the Tanzanian Akiek. &mdash; mark &#9998; 14:55, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

68.166.19.242 16:51, 26 May 2007 (UTC) Corinne Kratz 26 May 2007 (cross-posting this from the article on Ogiek language, since I'm not sure where it should be placed) Perhaps I can explain the difference between the two spellings. The sound of the voiced velar stop consonant falls somewhere between [g] and [k] as spoken, so people could easily write it differently. In my publicatiaons, the spelling I use for the word Okiek and in transcriptions is phonemic. This is why my spelling differs from the Ogiek spelling adopted by local NGOs formed in the 1990s (websites noted above), which reflects phonetic variations in the language. To explain this distinction further, the inventory of consonant phonemes in Kalenjin languages like Okiek includes a series of unvoiced stop (or plosive) consonants. Most of these unvoiced stop phonemes (/p/, /t/, /c/, /k/) become voiced in intervocalic word environments, (i.e. when they occur between vowels). Toweett (1979:42) provides a more precise description of the sound of an intervocalic /k/ and comments on spelling conventions: “An intervocalic /k/ is articulated as if it were a velar fricative /ɤ/ which is a sound between an aspirated [gh] and [kh]. There is a faint gemination in the articulation of an intervocalic /k/. [Toweett’s footnote: In traditional conventional spelling intervocalic /k/ is replaced by /g/. In this study /k/ is preferred because it is morphemic.]” Describing the same phenomenon in Nandi, another Kalenjin language, Chet and Jane Tabsubei Creider say, “The phonetic realization of the stop phonemes is quite complex. /p/ and /k/ are voiced and optionally spirantized intervocalically. Thus /neeka/ ‘goats’ [is articulated] with [g] or [ɤ] [as the phonetic sound realizing the phoneme /k/].” (1989:13). In Kenyan press coverage in the last decade or so, the Ogiek spelling has indeed begun to be more conventional – in part because of the NGO’s usage in their names. Wikipedia will have to decide whether to emphasize and emerging social norm, with Ogiek, or the linguistic and scholarly practice, with Okiek, or whether it should simply note that both are in use, and the linguistic reasons for why they are both used. Here are the citations for the two sources noted, both written by linguists and Kalenjin speakers: Creider, Chet and Jane Tapsubei Creider 1989	A Grammar of Nandi. Hamburg: Helmut Buske Verlag. Toweett, Taaitta 1979	A Study of Kalenjin Linguistics. Nairobi: Kenya Literature Bureau.

Needs expansion
Given the significance of the subject and the long bibliography, this article is much too short.  Mini  apolis  19:16, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Removed references to "Akiek" as a subgroup
Akiek people do not exist as a group or subgroup of Ogiek or Akie people. See this talk page discussion. ~Cherri of Arctic Circle System (talk) 23:39, 9 May 2023 (UTC)