Talk:Oklahoma State University–Stillwater/Archive 1

Awards and distinctions
The awards and distinctions section is currently one large, hard to digest paragraph. It should probably be split into many (logical) smaller paragraphs and wikify'd. jareha 20:37, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Master Plan
Why is there no mention or criticism of the controversial Master Plan, which involves large expansion of the university, that has received SO MUCH attention in the past few months? --Jibran1 17:20, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I haven't heard anything about it. If you can add info about it, please do.--Nmajdan 13:00, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Main Picture
The current main picture on this article is of the OSU System seal... The University has a different and distinct logo for the Stillwater campus, which can be found on the website of the Unversity's Marketing department. It would be appropriate to change the logo to the image that appears here: http://universitymarketing.okstate.edu/styleguide/resources/primary_OSU.jpg 68.13.236.96 22:27, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Campus type?
What "type" of campus (urban, suburban, rural) should OSU's Stillwater campus be classified as? The article states "Urban", but this has been brought into dispute. Although Stillwater might not be a huge city, the term "urban" can still apply to it (see Table of United States Micropolitan Statistical Areas). One could also argue that the terms "suburban" and "rural" can apply to it as well. Comments? Scootey (talk) 00:23, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with you that it needs to be one of these terms or one similar. This actually applies to the campus. Is it an urban campus, suburban campus, rural campus? Stillwater is a college town, but it's not correct to say the campus is a college town. →Wordbuilder (talk) 03:45, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it's urban. Any campus A, dominating a small town of 50,000 people; B, bordered on one side by a vast rural expanse; and C, spanning across 1,500 acres isn't really urban. And it's not suburban because there isn't a major urban center adjacent that Stillwater can be a suburb of. OSU is definitely a rural university, which is something it does take pride in.IanEmenhiser (talk) 17:46, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

The Department of Education says that it's in a "Town: Distant," whatever that means. --ElKevbo (talk) 17:55, 3 April 2009 (UTC

Arkansas University is classified as a 'college town' campus. While I agree that OSU's CAMPUS isn't a college town simply by definition, I think these two universities are of a similar campus type.75.91.150.131 (talk) 21:20, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Native Americans
Is there a source that can substantiate the claim that the school has graduated more Native Americans than any other? -Harmil 23:18, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I haven't found anything conclusive one way or another yet - but I was able to find Accreditation Self-Study Report from the Summer of 2005 by OSU. However, it's a draft and says: "More Native American Degrees: OSU grants more graduate degrees to Native American students than any institution in the nation. (Not exactly correct—needs adjustment)".  I'll look a bit more into it later. Ash Lux 17:53, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Rankings
Perhaps I am just missing something when I look at the references, but I do not see where the following claims are cited in the accompanying sources:


 * The Oklahoma State Cowboys have a rich athletic heritage, being the home of 48 national championships, a total better than all but 3 schools in the nation, and first in the Big 12. Citation:
 * Further, "rich athletic heritage" is a bit WP:PEACOCK.


 * William S. Spears School of Business ranks among the top among the nation. Citation:
 * School of Engineering rank among the top among the nation. Citation:
 * School of Agricultural Sciences and Natural Resources rank among the top among the nation. Citation:
 * Oklahoma State University ranks #71 among Best Value universities (top-billing in the State of Oklahoma) according to Kiplinger magazine Citation: http://content.kiplinger.com/tools/colleges/pubcollege.php?sortby=INRANK04&orderby=flip&states[]=ALL&myschool[]=none&outputby=table (Due to the brackets, I was not able to link this one like the others, so copy and paste.)
 * This one is mostly true. It actually ranks 76 for "out of state" and 71 for "in-state". The source does not specifically say that OSU received "top-billing in the State of Oklahoma", so it is WP:OR. Further, the University of Oklahoma ranks at 61 for "out of state" so, in that regard, it would have "top-billing".


 * Oklahoma State has been named a Truman Honor Institution as a result of having 15 Truman scholars, one of the highest totals in the nation. Citation:
 * The source does confirm that OSU was named as an Honor Institution, it says nothing about the number of scholars and it says nothing regarding "one of the highest totals in the nation".


 * Every year the Cowboys student body puts on the largest annual student-produced concert in the world, known as Orange Peel. Citation:
 * Every fall the Stillwater community comes together to deck the streets in celebration for what is hailed as "America's Greatest Homecoming." Citation:
 * This type of claim clearly needs a reliable third-party source. OSU dubbing their own homecoming as the greatest in America is not neutral.

Additionally, I question the addition of these rankings to the lead without having them repeated in the body of the article. I am again reverting the changes until we can get this worked out. →Wordbuilder (talk) 19:53, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

The point of adding these rankings to the lead is that before I did such OSU had by far the weakest lead of any college article on Wikipedia. Now I see why.. you could contribute by adding these rankings to the body of the article if there's a problem with that instead of deleting them altogether. I'd like to point out a few things in response:
 * There's a reason "America's Greatest Homecoming" is in "quotes", because that is the name of the event. I recommend writing to the organizers in Stillwater, OK suggesting renaming the event if you disagree or find it a questionable claim.
 * If you go to the Orange Peel article there is more information, which is another one you erroneously redacted.
 * It is a fact that OSU is a Truman Honor Institution and has 15 Truman scholars..you do not get to be a Truman Honor Institution by not have very many Truman scholars.
 * Regarding the Kiplinger ranking, I don't see what's "half-true." Because we know that a university's enrollment is not half in-state and half out-of-state. A university's enrollment is going to be majority in-state. Making "OSU has top billing in state" mostly true. I have no problem clarifying the total is based off of in-state data.
 * "OSU's rich athletic tradition" is not a peacock term in the way I presented it. A peacock term is when you put in a significant opinion without qualifying it. You also deleted mention of OSU's 48 national championships, being the most in the Big 12, and the most outside of the PAC 10 as well.. (UCLA, USC, Stanford, and then OSU). That qualifies rich athletic tradition.

By the way, it's kind of sad to be sitting on an OSU article refusing to let a bunch of OSU people write good things about their school and put them in the lead like all of the other schools have done. I would figure any NCAA Division 1 could fairly make the claim that they have rich athletic tradition, even if they don't have a Heisman winner or dozens of national championships like OSU does. IanEmenhiser (talk) 21:24, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I have not done a comparison between the OSU article and all other college articles on Wikipedia so I do not know how the lead compares. Nevertheless, items should only be placed in the lead if they are repeated in the article. See WP:LEDE for details.
 * I am okay with leaving "America's Greatest Homecoming" as long as it is reworded to make it clear that it has been dubbed such rather than it seeming to be claimed that it is such.
 * I know there is an Orange Peel article, but it does not have any citations so cannot be used to support claims made here.
 * I do not refute that OSU is a Truman Honor Institution. But, if it has 15 Truman scholars, then add a citation to a source that backs up that claim.
 * For the Kiplinger claim, it should be completely true (verifiable), rather than mostly so. The source you point to never says that OSU has "top-billing" in the state. That portion needs to be cited or removed as WP:OR.
 * I still take exception to the term "rich athletic tradition" but would be willing to let it stand if you add a source for your claim regarding the 48 national championships. I also think it would be ideal to know in which sports those titles came. Further, without a source specifically stating as much, you must leave out the part of it being the most in the Big 12, etc., as original research.
 * You wrote, "By the way, it's kind of sad to be sitting on an OSU article refusing to let a bunch of OSU people write good things about their school and put them in the lead like all of the other schools have done." To clarify, this is not an "OSU article". It is a Wikipedia article about OSU and must ahere to Wikipedia standards.
 * I am not saying that the information you added is not true or should not be in the article. I am saying that it needs to be clear and verifed by reliable sources. Of all the articles related to schools in the Big 12, those for OSU are the worst when it comes to containing uncited claims. I have removed many such claims and will continue to do so. Take a look at Wikipedia's ideal university articles at Category:FA-Class Universities articles. →Wordbuilder (talk) 22:07, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

OK. I'm hoping that we can reach a compromise on the ethics of this Wikipedia article. I'm bringing back the information about the athletic legacy at OSU.


 * Not only is it true, backed up by a source, but it is also mentioned heavily in the article. And I don't care who you are, when you have 48 national championships..you have the ability to claim "rich athletic legacy."
 * I can't find sources backing up business, engineering, and agriculture, so I'm not going to put that in the article.
 * I'm rephrasing Kiplinger to sound less clumsy but emphasizing that ranking ahead of OU is factoring the in-state tuition total. I think that's a good compromise between someone wanting to talk up OSU and someone wanting to edit the hell out of an OSU article removing any potential Cowboy praise.
 * I'm bringing back the Truman Honor Institutions fact, using two different sources than the simple list of institutions on the govt website.
 * I backed up the Orange Peel claim with a different source, a newspaper article that states largest student-ran pep rally in the world.
 * I brought back "a stop for many high-profile speakers" because without it, mentioning the "cataclysmic" visits of various sitting presidents is just awkward, whereas with that qualifying phrase the transition is smooth and it enriches the lead.
 * "America's Greatest Homecoming Celebration" is back, in "" quotes. Though, they've been calling it that for nearly a century, at some point perception becomes reality..

I looked at many of the articles you suggested. I found that Texas Tech's article is among the A-rated ones, and was appalled at the lead of that article. The claim that Tech's campus is the most beautiful between the Mississippi and Stanford is completely un-cited. So is the claim of the Grand Award for grounds maintenance, and the top-ranked public art is also completely un-cited. I've always thought Tech was a very beautiful campus, but after experiencing the rigomorale of these lead articles, I think someone needs to get on citing this stuff.

I believe that citing these claims obviously makes an article better and I'm glad you hounded me to work on that, but I don't think you can really say that OSU people are the worst about un-cited claims, when look at this Texas Tech article. OU's article also has a lot of un-cited athletic claims in the lead, granted I do happen to know those claims to be true.. IanEmenhiser (talk) 03:02, 6 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The claim for 48 titles is backed up by this source. Please tell me where on that page it says anything about 48 titles or about the related claims (i.e., "a total better than all but 3 schools in the nation, and first in the Big 12").


 * I will give you the Kiplinger claim, even though it never directly states what you wrote. If this article ever comes up as an FA candidate, that will be an issue.


 * For the Truman Honors, I must be missing "15" in the sources but they are much better at backing up the overall claim.


 * The source for Orange Peel states, "Gator Growl is in its 85th year of existence. It has grown to the largest student-run pep rally in the world." Gator Growl, wich inspired Orange Peel, is the largest. Orange Peel is not.


 * I like the new wording for the homecoming sentence.


 * Regarding the Texas Tech University article. It is a Featured Article, one of the best articles on Wikipedia. (A-rated articles are actually a few notches lower.) Nothing in that article is uncited. Because everything in the lead is repeated in the article, the citations are in the body. "Most beautiful" is in the Campus section and is backed up with multiple citations. The art collection claim and the Grand Award claim are in the same section, and include citations.


 * I do not think that OSU people are worst of all colleges folks when it comes to failing to cite claims. Just the worst of the Big 12 school articles I have edited. I have not doubt that other Big 12-related articles have uncited claims. When I see them, I will tag them or remove them. →Wordbuilder (talk) 03:56, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I used the wrong sources. I changed them. These are the ones I meant to use.

http://www.okstate.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=200&KEY=&SPID=162&SPSID=2371 "It is the home of 48 national team championships – a total better than all but three schools in America. This is Oklahoma State Athletics."

http://osu.okstate.edu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=430&Itemid=90 "Now in its 11th year, Orange Peel is the nation’s largest student-run pep rally and concert series. Grammy Award-winning country artist Alan Jackson this year will be the headline performer. Jackson has won 96 awards and sold 43 million albums. He also is the singer of 31 No. 1 hits."

So now I understand why you kept having a problem with the athletics thing. And as for this article becoming an FA candidate or whatever, that's not going to happen anytime soon. The rest of this article is simply horrible and I don't have the time to devote to fixing the rest of it.. IanEmenhiser (talk) 12:44, 6 April 2009 (UTC)


 * That is much better. Those sources support the claims made in the article. If you ever decide to try to move the article up to the next level, let me know and I'll be happy to lend a hand. In the meantime, if you have any questions, post a message on my talk page. →Wordbuilder (talk) 13:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Name
Can you provide a source that the name of this University is exactly "Oklahoma State University–Stillwater" and not, for example, "Oklahoma State University – Stillwater", "Oklahoma State University" or a particular "Oklahoma State University" that is located in Stillwater? OrangeDog (talk • edits) 01:35, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Copying and pasting directly from the website, it is formatted as: Oklahoma State University - Stillwater. →Wordbuilder (talk) 01:42, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * a) The title of a website is not a reliable source. The article about this website is at Wikipedia, not Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, or even Editing Talk:Oklahoma State University–Stillwater (section) - Preview - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
 * b) That would make the title of the article "Oklahoma State University - Stillwater", not "Oklahoma State University–Stillwater"
 * c) The references listed, including, name it as "Oklahoma State University". OrangeDog (talk • edits) 02:02, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It is not just the title of the website; it also appears at the bottom of the page. I don't have a position here. I'm just advising you of how the university refers to itself. →Wordbuilder (talk) 03:36, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * As I've just been through all the refs to give them titles (many need appropriate cite templates to record publisher, date, etc.) I now know what's going on. Oklahoma State University consists of a number of campuses, the main one being in Stillwater. That fact that almost all references say only "Oklahoma State University" means they cannot be said to be talking about the Stillwater campus, which is what this article is supposed to be about. None of them explains the strange typography used by the article's title.
 * The solution is probably to create an article at Oklahoma State University, to which much of the information on this page should be moved, and renaming all the campus articles to either the Oklahoma State University, Stillwater or Oklahoma State University - Stillwater format.OrangeDog (talk • edits) 03:56, 18 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree, this article should be at Oklahoma State University. The flagship institution of the Oklahoma State University System is located in Stillwater and officially named "Oklahoma State University".  Refer to the university's catalog and the two supporting references from the above user.  &mdash;RJN (talk) 18:30, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

infobox logo removal/inclusion
A discussion regarding logo removal/inclusion that occurred during a recent edit to this article is ongoing at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities. CrazyPaco (talk) 20:45, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Big 12 WikiProject
I'm trying to gauge the interested in created a Big 12 WikiProject and wondering who would like to be involved. There are already pages for WikiProject Big Ten and WikiProject ACC. A Big 12 project would cover the schools themselves and anything to do with conference sports including: events, rivalries, teams, seasons, championships and lore. There is already quite a bit of activity here on Wikipedia regarding the Big 12, and I think a project could help coordinate and unify our efforts. Please see WikiProject Council/Proposals/Big 12 if you are interested, and add your name to the list. Grey Wanderer (talk) 00:21, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Kendall Hunter, Brandon Pettigrew, Zac Robinson?
Shouldn't Kendall Hunter, Brandon Pettigrew, and Zac Robinson be added to the NFL list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.229.231.23 (talk) 19:23, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

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Choir
I think it's important to talk about the choir and its important director. cordial greetings --Jacobus (talk) 09:36, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

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Alumnus
Ponnala Lakshmaiah (15 February 1944) an Indian politician, who served as the minister for information technology and communications for the state of Andhra Pradesh, India.[2] a member of the legislature assembly of Andhra Pradesh, and a Member of the All India Congress Committee.[3] He was named President of the newly created Telangana Pradesh Congress Committee (TPCC) did masters in this university receiving MS in mechanical engineering in 1969. — Preceding unsigned comment added by K.NAGARAJU987 (talk • contribs) 08:13, 25 January 2017 (UTC)