Talk:Old Roman Symbol

Stub
This precursor of the Apostles Creed is a worthy entry into Wikipedia I believe. drboisclair 14:04, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I added references, and I will add more text later. Perhaps a provenance would be helpful to a reader, right not the bare translations are not as useful. We are writing to laymen, and they need a little help to understand the backstory of why this is important enough to separate from Apostles Creed. Dominick (TALK) 20:33, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I think this is worth being an entry and thank you guys for writing it. Jcmiller 03:16, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

old roman creed
I'm adding current references, which sometimes contradict the references from 35 years ago. Leadwind (talk) 03:59, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Not-so-minor ?typo? in the Latin...
I have checked the Rufinus text (PDF at the Documenta Catholica Omnia site, supposed to have been transcribed, with corrections, from Migne) and it is ex Maria vigine, not et.

Perhaps the contributor was unconsciously influenced by the kai in the Greek?

In any case this is not a trivial matter, since et, like ex, produces a version that is both grammatical and plausible.

I am correcting the offending word, and posting this here as a record of my reasons for so doing.

Mjhrynick (talk) 23:56, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Rename
Don't want to get into a war here, but I think the name should be "Roman Creed." This must have been discussed earlier and therefore I am reluctant to move it. Student7 (talk) 21:13, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It would be helpful if you would indicate why you think the name should be "Roman Creed", not even "Old Roman Creed". Is it because of the word "Symbol"?  The Roman Missal refers to the Apostles' Creed as "the baptismal Symbol of the Roman Church".  "Old Roman Symbol" is the term used in reliable sources like American Journal of Theology (1902) Church History (1965) Arthur Cushman McGiffert, The Apostles' Creed: Its Origin, Its Purpose, and Its Historical Interpretation (ISBN: 157910665X / 1-57910-665-X) - to mention only the first three that come up on Google.  But, no doubt you have good reasons for saying the name should be "Roman Creed".  Esoglou (talk) 07:39, 26 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "Symbol" sounds odd to the American (if not English) ear. I am amenable to "old" Roman Creed, but there really is no "new" one. Not sure why that would be necessary. It appears to be a statement that was memorized or said, which resembles a "creed" more than a "symbol" in current English. I have seen both symbol and creed.
 * For example, The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia article contains both (discussing the apostles creed) but puts "symbol" in quotes and explains that it was taken from the Greek. In other words, it seemed unusual to them and the author mostly used "Roman Creed" in that article. Student7 (talk) 23:30, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The creed in question is called "old" to distinguish it from the present Roman Creed or Symbol, also known as "the Apostles' Creed (Latin: Symbolum Apostolorum or Symbolum Apostolicum), sometimes titled Symbol of the Apostles", to quote the Wikipedia article on it. Esoglou (talk) 06:25, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It still sounds stilted (and confusing) to me since no one uses this in real speech. But it stays the way it is until someone else weighs in. Student7 (talk) 13:01, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Typo in the Greek Creed
Shouldn't ὅθεν be πόθεν ("whence")? Or is this misspelling also in the original Creed? -- 20:18, 4 February 2013‎ 74.94.105.81


 * Ὅθεν is the relative "whence". Πόθεν would be the interrogative "whence?".  Esoglou (talk) 21:43, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

"Old Roman Symbol" name origin?
What is the SOURCE of this name? Who first called it this? What was it called in the early church in the 2nd and 3rd centuries? And, WHY is it labeled as "Roman", if it is that early? It also seems weird that this supposedly came from the 2nd Century but is being called "old" vs. "early". (I read the other thread on this.) Compared with the Nicene or Apostles' documents, perhaps it was old; but "early" might be preferable. WHO exactly is titling it "old", Wikipedia or who? What was it called at its origin? That perhaps should be its actual title, if known. Misty MH (talk) 14:52, 19 January 2022 (UTC)