Talk:Olomouc

Hanakian (Central Moravian dialect) name of Olomouc: Olomóc or Holomóc.

There are many 16th-century sources that have 'Holomauc', should this be included?


 * I am not sure. I think it is one of several variations of the name that occurred in the Middle and early Modern Ages. If you (or anybody else) have more information about etymology of the name, maybe there could be a separate chapter on this topic. Jan.Kamenicek 17:59, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

When Jan Blahoslav published his music treatise 'Muzyka, to gest knizka' in Olomouc (1558) he used 'Holomauc'. I have also seen an 18th-century folk-map from Prerov which has 'Holomoc'. I can go on and on. Also modern-day Hanaks (though, rarely in Olomouc itself) still preserve the 'H' at the beginning of the word (this is also why they use 'ten' with 'Olomouc'; the spelling changed over time, but the dialect preserved 'ten'. I would be grateful if you would change the Hanak version back to 'Holomauc'.  If you still doubt, just try Googling 'Holomauc'.
 * I come from a village near Olomouc and partly can speak the dialect. I meet some people who speak the dialect fluently. I have never heard the version with "Holomóc", though I admit that it could be spoken in some parts of the region (I have not visited all the Haná villages). In my opinion, most frequent modern version is "Olomóc". I doubt that it could be pronounced "Holomauc" anywhere in the region.
 * The fact that Jan Blahoslav (and may be others as well) used it in the 16 century would be a good contribution to a separate chapter on the history of the name.
 * Please, sign your messages with four tildes, like this: ~, it will produce your username and date.
 * Jan.Kamenicek 11:45, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, OK. ComeniusUK 11:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Jan, thanks so much for your post. Since I am not a native speaker, I'll give your observations weight. I can tell you though, I (and others in and around Olomouc, have heard 'Holomauc'. Either way, it is surely archaic, as you have suggested.  It may be worth mentioning as the early use of 'H' may teach us something about the origins of the name itself.  ComeniusUK 11:53, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I have to write my previous contribution in a more precise way: I have never heard saying "Holomóc" in everyday usage by a native dialect speaker. However, it exists in people's minds, probably as a remnant of old-time usage. If you ask somebody how to say "Olomouc" in the Haná dialect, you may here "Holomóc". But I have never heard a native speaker using it while naturally speaking, I have always heard just "Olomóc" (the akute above the last "o" means that it is pronounced long: ).
 * Haná dialect is very variable, there may occur some slight differences from one village to another. Therefore I am not able to say that the "H" version is not used anywhere (but it is definitely not used in Olomouc). However, I really doubt that in modern usage you could meet this name with the spelling "Holomauc" (in Czech language and all Czech dialects "au" is pronounced in the same way as the diphtong in the end of the English word "cow"). I did some googling as you have suggested, and found just 17 sites with this spelling, which can be considered as a proof that it exists, but none of them suggested that it is used by present day Haná dialect speakers.
 * I am also afraid that arguments of both of us resemble something that Wikipedia calls "original research", which is not allowed here. Unless we find some independent citeable sources which have explored the dialect and noted how the name is used by the dialect speakers nowadays, we should omit it from the first paragraph completely. The 16th century version of "Holomauc" could be mentioned somewhere in the history section, unless a separate chapter is devoted to the etymology of the name in the article.
 * Jan.Kamenicek 21:09, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Jan, thanks for that. I agree, let's let it go and use the modern spelling as you suggest. For what it's worth I do speak and understand Czech and my specialty is 17th and 18th-century Czech things; so I am way out of date! ComeniusUK 13:01, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, I'll do it.
 * I am pleased that you are interested in 17th and 18th century Czech history. There seems to be a lack of such articles in Wikipedia, it would be great, if you could contribute with some.

Jan.Kamenicek 13:28, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Convent of Dominican Sisters in Olomouc
The article in question was just created today. I have already wikified it to the best of my ability but there's still very little context for someone who isn't familiar with Olomouc (like myself). Therefore, it's hard for me to determine if a merge is the way to go in this case but I thought I'd at least go ahead and suggest it. -- Seed 2.0 17:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:UNESCO World Heritage Site - small logo.svg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 22:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

University
(Posted at Talk:Palacký University, Olomouc identically:)

The main Olomouc article only very briefly mentions Palacký University, Olomouc the university, in a single sentence. Considering that the lead here suggests that the university is a very significant part of the the town, shouldn't it get a bigger mention in that article? Si Trew (talk) 12:11, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Subsection "University" added. Cimmerian praetor (talk) 10:05, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Mozart
If I don't misremember what I read in some museum sign, Mozart's family spent some time in Olomouc and was greatly helped by the then bishop. Should it be mentioned? Was some remarkable composition created there? --Error (talk) 21:56, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Percentage of Protestants and name of the state
Cimmerian praetor, I understand the Palacký Unversity is your alma mater, but that doesn't mean that you are supervisor of this article and therefore you can forced your own statistics and names.

I have got two objections: Regards. --Iaroslavvs (talk) 16:55, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Numbers of Protestants in the Czech lands before 1620 are only estimated and re-calculated according to the number of churches and parishes. Due to this lack of knowledge (incomplete sources) ratio of Protestants and Catholics variated between 70% (e.g. historian cs:Petr Čornej) and 90%. Even in the book cited by you can be found various figures: ... Josef Pekař uvádí, že katolíky u nás byla zhruba jedna sedmina obyvatel... (i.e. ~14–15% Catholics); ... Ze zhruba 2 mil. obyvatel Čech bylo ... pouze 300 tisíc katolíků. Na Moravě pouze asi 70 tisíc z celkového počtu 750 tisíc obyvatel, tedy zhruba pouze jedna desetina... (i.e. ~15% Catholics in Bohemia Proper and ~9% in Moravia; average = 12%, not 10 as you assert). In view of these facts, I consider quarrel "85 or 90" as purposelessly dogmatic. I suggest a compromise: 88%
 * 2) "Czech Crown lands" is ahistoric term used by some present authors only in auxiliary sense, similarly to "Czech state" or "Czech lands". Proper name of the Bohemian state after 1348 was – as you certainly know – The Crown of the Bohemian Kingdom; typized "wikiname" is Crown of Bohemia (cf. other institutionalized "Crowns", like Crown of Aragon, Crown of Castile, Crown of Spain, Crown of Great Britain, Crown of the Kingdom of Poland and so on). I don't understand your incorrect edits in this case and I oppose them.


 * Dear Iaroslavvs, the fact that I have studied in Olomouc has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I don't feel being supervisor of the article, but I like to keep an eye on the part, which I have introduced into the article. I have introduced both the Czech Crown lands as well as "roughly nine out of ten". I hate to see somebody coming in and changing it for no good reason.

I am sorry but it is very arrogant, to start changing things for no good reason. It is even more arrogant to blame the author of the original sentences of "feeling being a supervisor, when he merely corrects fiddling with his own edits. I hate arrogance. Please stop fiddling with my edits, unless you build a majority consensus, that what I have written is wrong. Cimmerian praetor (talk) 18:23, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) You have deliberately change roughly nine out of ten to 85%. I got it back to 90% and added a source for the claim. You also recognize, that the figure I put there is much closer to the source, than the one you wrote (not to mention, that the original phrase was probably the best one, but out of courtesy to you, I have stayed with the percentage, which you have introduced).
 * 2) Czech Crown lands is not ahistoric term. It is simply used by some contemporary authors in order to cover the territory of the contemporary Czech Republic, before the Czech Republic existed. One of the issues of writing there "Crown of Bohemia" is, that it is a historically very precise term, which in the issue of 1550s covers also the largest of the lands - Silesia - which is not covered in the estimates by the source I have provided.

"English" pronunciation
Looks like original research to me. There could be many ways of approximating the Czech pronunciation based on dialect. I would say the first syllable as /ɒ/ rather than /ɔː/. Any source that there's a widely used English pronunciation? - filelake shoe &#xF0F6;  11:06, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

old books
Maybe it should be added that in old books, the city is called by its German name? The name changes are pretty confusing for non-Czechs/non-Germans... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.121.10.165 (talk) 21:44, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Mentioning the German name in the lede should be enough. - filelake shoe  &#xF0F6;   15:39, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Is Olmütz not only the German name ? Is ist Anglo-Saxon for "All-Meet". Maybe it is located on an old war-path that leads to South-East. The Anglo-Saxons/Britain and maybe the Scandinavians came along the river Elbe heading Southeast and continued their path Southeast towards Olmütz = All-meet. The warriors maybe have met in this place before they continued their path Southeast. It could be similar to the French town Metz, I heard crusaders have met there (Metz=meet). guest comment by P. Kempe 61.8.138.131 (talk) 18:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Modern - section
The same text is here: http://www.tracesofevil.com/search/label/Olomouc Who was the first?Xx236 (talk) 11:03, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Aglomeration population

 * The 480,000 is unsourced.
 * Here between 363.7 and 437.5.
 * Here between 363.5 and 493.1 Xx236 (talk) 11:40, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The Larger urban zone doesn't contain Olomouc. My sources say Aglomerace.Xx236 (talk) 13:09, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Is it notable?
Olomouc is mentioned in chapter 27 Xx236 (talk) 07:28, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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In popular culture : R.E.M.
where's the reference to Olomouc in the linked song lyrics ? Stipe though, did play in town with Merchant and Bragg in 1990 as by many youtube videos

Historical capital city?
Lead mentions: "the city [Olomouc] ... was a historical capital city of Moravia". How can a historical region, that is Moravia (meaning having no administrative role), have a capital city? Might need to check this one. Danial Bass (talk) 17:26, 4 July 2022 (UTC)