Talk:Olympic Airways Flight 411

To the Greek IP user updating this article
I'm sorry for the impersonal form of address but anonymous editing means, well, no name. Thank you for updating extensively the flight summary. I am curious, though, where this information comes from. I previously added that section using local Greek news sources but I had to depend on machine translation because I don't read more than a few words of Greek. Since this is a very sub-optimal way of sourcing information I am glad that a Greek editor has been able to add more information. Are you using the same sources that I previously cited? If not, could you please indicate what sources you are using? Don't worry too much about formatting any source you use, just put in what you can and I or another user will make it fit the usual formats. Thanks in advance. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 18:43, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Investigation section title
I am not finding anything about a formal investigation being performed. Should "Investigation" be changed to "Conclusion" or something else?–CaroleHenson (talk) 05:21, 17 February 2022 (UTC)


 * I changed it to "Conclusions". Feel free to change it to something better.–CaroleHenson (talk) 19:43, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Accident aircraft
I removed this information here, because the source is a personal website. I didn't have any luck finding another source that ties aircraft specific info to Flight 411. Does anyone know a reliable source for this information?–CaroleHenson (talk) 06:03, 17 February 2022 (UTC)


 * I found this in a "note" from the Greek article, but it seems like general information about the SX-OAA - and not specifically connecting the SX-OAA to the aircraft used in this flight.


 *  SX-OAA  {{refn | group = "Note" | Aircraft specifications:
 * * Name:  OLYMPIC ZEUS 

Other useful information: It was a personal order of one of the aircraft (advanced) technology (then) "Jumbo jets" of Aristotle Onassis, to cover transatlantic flights, so its registration was  "Onassis Aristotelis A"  (the first of the fleet). {{refn | group = "Par. Note" | ite {cite journal | author = Edited by Pavlos Papadimitropoulos (former aircraft technician of OA) | journal = Another Flight (Magazine of the Cultural Center of Olympic Aviation Workers (POL.KE.OA) | title = Correspondence POL.KE.OA | url = www .polkeoa.gr | volume = Issue 841 | issue = January - February - March 2016 | year = 2016 | pages = 31 | doi = 23 June 2016}}
 * Date of first commercial flight: December 8, 1973 (from Athens International (Athens) to John F. Kennedy International Airport (New York), USA


 * Is there a way to tie the information about SX-OAA to this particular flight?–CaroleHenson (talk) 07:12, 17 February 2022 (UTC)


 * {{done}}. I found this and updated the info in the infobox for SX-OAA.–CaroleHenson (talk) 02:56, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

water injection system / overheating
I have not found this in the Greek articles, nor the televised interview with the article s. The only English language content is coming from personal websites and personal YouTubes - some of which has the info ( incorrectly flipping the switch, one says he thinks it was a pump issue.

The citation for this content says it's from the Se Proto Plano program, but there's no video of it:
 * The plane's water injection system had been left on prior to takeoff, and the flight engineer failed to notice this during preflight checks, flipping the switch to the off position.

In this video of the television show "One in a Thousand" (1994), about the flight, the captain says that the engine blows out on take off and that the three other engines have reduced power, but makes no mention of the water injection system.

When asked what caused the issue he mentions that there were system problems, unable to gain sufficient speed, and third thing seems to be a translation error "I was not shaking the plane". He doesn't mention the water injection system. Who knows, that may be because he didn't want to draw attention to it, but we just don't know.

When the Greek articles mention what is being done as the result of this flight, they mention that some policies and procedures changed - which would allow the pilot to circumvent some of the policies to get out of a similar situation (like raising the landing gear in the midst of takeoff). Boeing has said that its changed its training program to bring up the set of circumstance that happened with this flight. There is no mention that Boeing thinks it was pilot error. They do say that the aircraft is now "lost" and considered to be crashed / inoperable. I have not heard an explanation for that.

So
 * I had added the overheating part from this article: "Before the wheels detached from the ground, an explosion was heard from the right engine, which exploded due to overheating of the turbine cooling pipes, while the other 3 lost their power."
 * Removed the part that I could not confirm that states it's pilot error

I sure could use some insight on this. Am I missing something that makes it clear it was pilot error? Because there was no proper investigation, I could not find any post-incident report or summary about the overheating situation.–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:28, 17 February 2022 (UTC)


 * minor edits with strike out and underline–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:40, 17 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Found this.–CaroleHenson (talk) 02:57, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Boeing reportedly considered the aircraft a write-off, but the article leads off with a picture of it 8 years later
According to Wiki, this article, Boeing reportedly considered the aircraft a write-off, but the article leads off with a picture of it 8 years later. Maybe it can be blamed on conspiracy theorists. &&&& 2600:6C56:6600:1ECF:788A:F7F9:9C86:7D2F (talk) 04:02, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
 * It just says Boeing considered it a writeoff, they still repaired it anyway.---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss 04:09, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
 * You are correct. Thank you. I found documentation. https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b747-20742.htm &&&& 2600:6C56:6600:1ECF:788A:F7F9:9C86:7D2F (talk) 04:42, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Really scrambled article
Did the engine explode, or didn't it? If the plane landed safely, it seems like it would have been easy to determine, and there would be records of some sort. Why did Boeing consider the plane trashed and a "write-off" if nothing ever malfunctioned and it landed safely? Was it damaged that badly by the TV antennas? And then how did it come to be repaired and back in use years later? Who exactly turned off the water? The pilots? Engineer? Someone else? Nobody knows, or known info was just left out? Why does the article say the plane was climbing normally, then the next sentence says "X number seconds after engine shutdown..."? Engines shutting down at takeoff is "climbing normally"? 2600:1700:B930:7B90:B038:56B0:ACEA:FC6F (talk) 14:19, 13 May 2023 (UTC)


 * All of those questions sound great to research. Do you have some sources for that?


 * And, hopefully, are they in English?–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:30, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Additional topic for research?
I have spoken to people who worked in making the ceramic molds for casting turbine blades, and they have said that excessive levels of lead and bismuth in the ceramic mold can result in subsequent failure of turbine blades. They told me that the lead and bismuth can leach into the metal blades, making them brittle, and that at least three crashes have been linked to that problem.

This is totally unfounded conjecture on my part, but it might spur someone into investigating a new possibility. Snezzy (talk) 02:10, 8 May 2024 (UTC)