Talk:Omar Sharif/Archive 1

Contribution
I am suggesting the top to be as follows;

Michel Demitri Shalhoub born April 10, 1932, in Alexandria, Egypt, to Joseph and Claire Shalhoub. Known as Omar El-Sharif(Arabic: عمر الشريف;) he is an Egyptian-born actor (of Lebanese and Syrian origin) who has starred in many Hollywood films. Commonly known and credited as Omar Sharif

Also, I think we should add his Arabic Filmography.

Omernos 16:30, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed; the current phrasing is inadequate. If I don't hear any objections within a few weeks, I plan to rephrase major parts of this article. Hoot (talk) 14:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Al-Qaida death threat claim?
I believe the section (under "trivia") about the purported Al-Qaida "hitlist" is inaccurate.

In the article: "...placed on a hit list issued by the terrorist group al-Qaeda"; while if you follow the link you find out it's more like "some unknown person logging into a website purportedly frequented by Al-Qaida sympathizers, posted a message saying that he should be killed."

Needless to say that's no where near "placed on an Al-Qaida hitlist." A lot of people log into jihadist forums, and a lot of them say a lot of stuff. Official Al-Qaida announcements are posted only on the bigger forums and are usually signed by some high ranking member of their media arm.

Hence I'm removing that section.

IBaghdadi 04:08, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps the wording was inapt, but I do think the friction between him and the jihadist wing of Islam needs to be explored.


 * In fact, you could say that the entire film of Monsieur Ibrahim was an indictment of Salafist/Wahabbi doctrine.


 * I'll try to find some more (credible) information that could be included in this article.
 * Ruthfulbarbarity 20:01, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Here's the arab report of the death threat...it's pretty old.

http://www.albawaba.com/en/main/190926 Bustter 20:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Accusations of Zionism
He's definitely accused of being a Zionist. He was way back when he costarred with Streisand in Funny Girl. But times are worse these days; he's even more resented for "Mr Ibrahim." And, in a 2004 interview he apparently made a remark about letting his grandkids -- Moslem and Jew -- decide for themselves what religion they should follow. According to reports at the time (no longer available on the web), "According to the London based Elaph, the remarks that caused the storm of anger were Omar's revealing that he has two grandchildren, one Jewish and the other a Muslim. The actor had stressed that he does not interfere in religious matters and is giving his grandchildren the freedom of choosing which religion they want to follow. Omar added that he will not in any way try to influence them to both follow Islam even if his Muslim grandchild wanted to convert."

recently, there's been some level of outrage about him being given honorary presidency of the cairo film fest.

pump this page through Google's Arabic translater:

http://www.alwatan.com.sa/daily/2006-07-09/socity/socity09.htm

It's about criticism leveled at the official running the Cairo International Film Festival for making Sharif "Honorary President" of the fest.

Bustter 20:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

or this one:

http://www.almasry-alyoum.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=22643

it says that the magazine "Arts," a quarterly published by the General Federation of Movie and Musical Trades Unions, has accuse Omar al-Sharif of appearing in over ten films that are hostile to Arabs and Moslems.

The text concludes "It is worth mentioning that the Cairo International Film Festival refused to show the Omar al-Sharif film, "Mr. Ibrahim and the flowers of the Koran." Bustter 21:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * About that, wasn't one of his reasons for conversion related to his film career, i.e. in order to achieve popularity as an Arabic film star?

Ruthfulbarbarity 04:24, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Says he Quit Bridge
In response to an interviewer's question about bridge:

"I've stopped all together. I decided I didn't want to be a slave to any passion any more except for my work. I had too many passions, bridge, horses, gambling. I want to live a different kind of life, be with my family more because I didn't give them enough time." http://www.reeltalkreviews.com/browse/viewitem.asp?type=feature&id=98

Some digging required to determine if he still does the syndicated column (or whether someone still writes it under his name)...if no one else does it, I suppose I may get to it eventually

Never mind, done. Found out that the column he used to write has been replaced by SUDOKU. Bustter 20:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The word puzzle game?
 * Ruthfulbarbarity 02:51, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Family Prominence
The recent BBC documentary “Suez: A Very British Crisis” included numerous clips from an interview of Omar Sharif. Both he and his family knew socially both King Farouk and (later?) Abdul Nasser. Even claiming that Farouk regularly came to his parent’s home to attend dinner parties and play Bridge. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/6045808.stm

This would indicate that his family was/is quite prominent in it’s own right. Perhaps more mention should be made of this?

It was also clear that he was “supporter” of Nasser: As private citizen…he made no mention of actual political activity. Also he served in some sort of “Citizens Militia” in Cairo during the 1956 Suez crisis. Jalipa 07:54, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

missing info
The filmography doesn't mention a classic film he starred in, "A Man in our House" (fee baytina ragul), based on the story by Ihsan Abdel Quddous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.73.64.18 (talk) 19:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Omar Sharif Scroggins
Omar Sharif also appears in some TV shows credited as "Omar Sharif Scroggins" http://www.tv.com/omar-sharif-scroggins/person/25898/summary.html. I just saw him as a Taxi driver on Law & Order. SVU Jalipa (talk) 22:46, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

wasnt he a christian before he converted to islam? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.126.4.21 (talk) 08:45, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Boardgame?
I seem to recall Sharif lending his name to a boardgame in the seventies. Is this worth mention? I cannot remember the title of the game (it had the number seven in the title I think) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.64.190.54 (talk) 21:32, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Ancestry
Numerous unreliable websites, such as given below make very varying claims regarding Omar Sharif's birth or origin as follows:


 * Greek: http://books.google.com/books?id=kjUHZrPBPPYC&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq=%22omar+sharif%22+%22greek-born%22&source=bl&ots=bJ661viyey&sig=KkmHXYeJ9KjZLXSA2_Q-84r6rPQ&hl=en&ei=tRg4StzVOIecsgOEmJT-Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1
 * Palestinian: http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/Omar_Sharif
 * Lebanese: http://www.starpulse.com/Actors/Sharif,_Omar/, http://movies.msn.com/celebrities/celebrity-biography/omar-sharif.1/, http://movies.nytimes.com/person/64847/Omar-Sharif, and http://www.facebook.com/pages/Omar-Sharif/10542471812?v=info&viewas=0
 * British: http://www.movieretriever.com/castandcredits/9521/Omar-Sharif
 * Egyptian: http://looklex.com/e.o/o_sharif.htm, http://www.egypttoday.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=8335, http://www.filmreference.com/Actors-and-Actresses-Sc-St/Sharif-Omar.html, http://www.celebwelove.com/Omar_Sharif/biography.html, http://www.nndb.com/people/627/000023558/, http://omar_sharif.justsuperstar.com/bio/, etc.

However, in Omar Sharif's own autobiography, The Eternmal Male, http://www.biography.com/articles/Omar-Sharif-9480603, Omar Sharif states that he is Egyptian at least once on every page and makes no lineal association with any other country. He states that he was born to Catholic parents which he never describes as other than Egyptian, though there are indirect references that they had Lebanese-Syrian social/familial associations. Omar Sharif's autobiography should be regarded as the only reliable authority on the subject of his anscestry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.124.102 (talk) 17:44, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I added he may have been born in Alexandria or Greece, wikiinfo is not accepted source, it is already in the article that his parents were from Lebanon. British, I don't know, not likely, does he have British citizenship? Egyptian citizenship is most likely true and already in the article. You have to provide a source showing the exact text from the book "The Eternmal Male". --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 17:50, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * You're welcome to purchase the book and read it. I have my own copy.  Your statements above wreak with personal points of view and your references (deleted) were selective, leaning toward your selected personal point of view, and none is more reliable than the official Egyptian Governemnt's website and Omar Sharif's autobiography. In his book, page 39, he states that he was born in Alexandria, which makes your reference of Greek birth, which you also used to reference a Hungarian citizenship for Stephan Rosti, completely worthless.(98.194.124.102 (talk) 18:09, 17 June 2009 (UTC))
 * His parents could just be Lebanese with Egyptian citizenship, that would justify for him to call them Egyptian in his biography. FunkMonk (talk) 18:57, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

FunkMonk, That was what I had written, that he is Egyptian of lebanese ancestry, but this user deleted his lebanese ancestry and my sources and added his own made up texts. Look: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Omar_Sharif&diff=296998174&oldid=296994828 --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 18:59, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * "that would justify for him to call them Egyptian in his biography", FunkMonk, I agree. (98.194.124.102 (talk) 23:02, 17 June 2009 (UTC))

Turner Classic Movies have stated that he was born to a Lebanese father and his mother was Syrian AND Lebanese. The Cairo Times March 05 1998 has stated "Omar Sherif was born Michel Dimitri Shalhoub in 1931 to a wealthy Alexandrian family of Christian Lebanese origin" http://omarsharif.netfirms.com/articles.htm http://www.tcm.com/thismonth/article/?cid=178897&rss=mrqe very reliable All sites seem to agree that he was of Lebanese origin and that his father and mother both were Lebanese. His father was an obvious emigrant from Lebanon. I think these facts should be stated because although Omar Sharif is a citizen of Egypt his country of origin is still Lebanon. His real name is Michael Shalhoub, Shalhoub is a Lebanese last name other Lebanese with the same last name is, Tony Shalhoub the actor of Monk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.208.37.205 (talk) 11:23, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Discussion regarding new information and sources
I'll attempt to moderate a discussion between User:Supreme_Deliciousness and 98.194.124.102.

First, from each of you, are there statements in this revision (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Omar_Sharif&oldid=297013832) that you believe are inaccurate? Quote them in the section "Possible inaccuracies" that follows.

Second, are there statements that you wish to add? List them, along with your source in the section "Statements to add".

Let's collect the set of changes you both wish to make without passing judgement on any of them until some time has passed. Simply list them, with as simple an explanation as possible, like "unreliable source", or a new source in the case of an addition. After we've collected all the changes you both wish to make, we can discuss them.

Please use bullets, and sign your posts. Sancho 19:41, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Possible inaccuracies
Current inaccuracies that must be removed is this: "Contrary to many websites that declare Omar Sharif of Greek, Lebanese, Syrian, Palestinian, or British birth or citizenship, Sharif was born in Egypt to Catholic Egyptian parents"

This is a complete made up sentence without source. His parents were Lebanese. I have provided many sources that debunked this.

This is also completely made up by 98.194.124.102‎ and must be removed: "Sharif affirms his Egyptian identity and his life-story intertwines with the history of Egypt especially during the eras of King Farouk and President Nasser. He makes no reference to any lineage to, or citizenship of, other countries."

You can see the differences between my edit and his: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Omar_Sharif&diff=297013832&oldid=296994828 Notice that while I have several sources, 98.194.124.102 has deleted them and added amazon.com (with no text) He has made up the texts he have implanted. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:04, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep it simple Let's not worry about who added what. Just state what the inaccuracy is and a simple reason for why you believe it is. We won't get anywhere if we talk about editors instead of content. Sancho 20:07, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Example: "Contrary to many websites that declare Omar Sharif of Greek, Lebanese, Syrian, Palestinian, or British birth or citizenship, Sharif was born in Egypt to Catholic Egyptian parents" - no source provided, conflicting evidence at . Sancho 20:11, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * "Omar Sharif was born Michel Demitri Shalhoub in Alexandria, Egypt" - conflicting evidence at: http://books.google.com/books?id=kjUHZrPBPPYC&pg=PA28&dq=omar+sharif+Encyclopedia+of+twentieth-century+African+history


 * "Contrary to many websites that declare Omar Sharif of Greek, Lebanese, Syrian, Palestinian, or British birth or citizenship, Sharif was born in Egypt to Catholic Egyptian parents" - No source for this whole recently made up sentence and evidence says otherwise;http://onefineart.com/en/artists/omar-sharif/ and http://www.proud2blebanese.com/famous_lebanese.cfm?p2bl_id=2


 * " Sharif affirms his Egyptian identity and his life-story intertwines with the history of Egypt especially during the eras of King Farouk and President Nasser. He makes no reference to any lineage to, or citizenship of, other countries." - complete made up sentence that is recently created and without source.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:46, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Statements to add

 * The article must say he was an Egyptian actor of Lebanese descent, because his background is 100% Lebanese, he was born Michel Demitri Chalhoub which is a Christan lebanese name. Both his parents are Lebanese from Zahle, this must be added. The article doesn't say anything about him being born in Greece, this must also be implanted. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 19:58, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you give an example sentence and source? Sancho 20:08, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Lebanese background: http://onefineart.com/en/artists/omar-sharif/ and http://www.proud2blebanese.com/famous_lebanese.cfm?p2bl_id=2
 * Omar Sharif born in Greece: http://books.google.com/books?id=kjUHZrPBPPYC&pg=PA28&dq=omar+sharif+Encyclopedia+of+twentieth-century+African+history --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:13, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What sentence would you like the article to include? Sancho 20:14, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Like my sourced version was here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Omar_Sharif&diff=297013832&oldid=296994828 --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:16, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's very difficult to discuss mass changes like that. Let's talk about individual sentences that you'd like to add. What is one sentence you'd like to add, and what is the source that justifies it? Sancho 20:20, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * "Omar Sharif is an Egyptian actor of Lebanese descent" http://onefineart.com/en/artists/omar-sharif/ and http://www.proud2blebanese.com/famous_lebanese.cfm?p2bl_id=2


 * "Omar Sharif was born Michel Demitri Shalhoub in Alexandria, Egypt or in Greece" http://books.google.com/books?id=kjUHZrPBPPYC&pg=PA28&dq=omar+sharif+Encyclopedia+of+twentieth-century+African+history


 * "Both his mother and father were Lebanese christians." http://onefineart.com/en/artists/omar-sharif/ and http://www.proud2blebanese.com/famous_lebanese.cfm?p2bl_id=2 --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:24, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Nothing to change from current version of 19:39 17 June 2009
Sancho, I believe that the current version is accurate based on my reading of Omar Sharif's autobiography, The Eternal Male. On Page 39 Line 7 of the autobiography, Omar Sharif states: "My birthplace was Alexandria... amazing Alexandria where there are so many reminders of the men who have passed through over the centuries." This alone destroys the credibility of SD's references. All of those sources, which I have previously listed here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Omar_Sharif#Anscestry) and from which SD derives their information are contradictory and unreliable. SD had initially argued on the article page that Omar Sharif was of Syrian descent, then that he was of Lebanese descent, then that he was of Greek birth. SD does not seem to like the idea that he was of Palestenian or British origin as some of the same unreliable sources also allege.

Citizenship of any country is not based on DNA and bloodline as user SD prefers to base their arguments, here and on many other articles. Although it is not explicitly stated in the autobiagraphy, it is a known fact that many Catholic Egyptians, probably including Omar Sharif's family roots, have Lebanese, Syrian, Palestinian, or Italian origins yet they remain full-fledged Egyptians, just as the Coptic Orthodox Lebanese have Egyptian heritage while they remain full-fledged Lebanese. Coptic Orthodox Christianity is an officially recognized religious sect in Lebanon although most of that Lebanese community hails from Egypt and have Egyptian last names. These Lebanese are never referred to as "of Egyptian origin" for the justifiable fear of discrimination. The same applies to Catholics in Egypt. They are Egyptian regardless of last names and where their DNA derives from. Omar Sharif has converted to Islam anyway, so SD's argument is based entirely on racial delineation.

There is no need to get racist and discuss DNA and bloodlines in Wikipedia articles, especially when Omar Sharif and others (whose articles SD has vandalized) have never referred to themselves as other than Egyptian. (98.194.124.102 (talk) 20:29, 17 June 2009 (UTC))

The following article statement, "Omar Sharif was born Michel Demitri Shalhoub in Alexandria, Egypt[1]. Contrary to many websites that declare Omar Sharif of Greek, Lebanese, Syrian, Palestinian, or British birth or citizenship, Sharif was born in Egypt to Catholic Egyptian parents[2]. In his autobiography, The Eternal Male.[3], Sharif affirms his Egyptian identity and his life-story intertwines with the history of Egypt especially during the eras of King Farouk and President Nasser. He makes no reference to any lineage to, or citizenship of, other countries." is clearly properly referenced, 3 times. (98.194.124.102 (talk) 21:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC))
 * 98.194.124.102: You've done exactly what I hoped to avoid in this discussion. I asked you to discuss additions or deletions without judgement. Please refrain from criticism or defensiveness at this point. Cease your characterization of SD as racist. Don't even mention the other contributor. Discuss only content. SD (after a bit of coaching) has done this, and his/her contributions to this discussion are much easier to read and it's easier to see the claimed justification for them. I'm assuming from your discussion here that you don't request any additional information to be added to this article. Do you have any specific sentences that you think are inaccurate? Could you please add them to the section above in the way that SD has: bullet points with a short, simple explanation. Thanks. Sancho 00:18, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I have answered your question in the title of this section: "Nothing to change from current version of 19:39, 17 June 2009". I went ahead and made my case for my request. (98.194.124.102 (talk) 00:44, 18 June 2009 (UTC))
 * Okay. Thanks. A lot of this text isn't so helpful though. Claims of racism, vandalism, and discussion of other articles is a distraction. I'll take a look through your and SD's contributions in this discussion and try to come up with the next steps for resolving this content dispute. Sancho 00:47, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Summary and moving forward
Here's my attempt to summarize the dispute:
 * 1) Supreme Deliciousness (SD) does not recognize the source The Eternal Male, Omar Sharif's autobiography as a reliable source.
 * 2) SD has provided a seemingly reliable source describing Sharif as "Greek-born"
 * 3) SD disagrees that this sentence is supported by Sharif's autobiography: Contrary to many websites that declare Omar Sharif of Greek, Lebanese, Syrian, Palestinian, or British birth or citizenship, Sharif was born in Egypt to Catholic Egyptian parents
 * 4) SD disagrees that this sentence is supported by Sharif's autobiography: Sharif affirms his Egyptian identity and his life-story intertwines with the history of Egypt especially during the eras of King Farouk and President Nasser. He makes no reference to any lineage to, or citizenship of, other countries.
 * 5) SD believes two sources,  establish that Sarif is of Lebanese descent and that his parents were Lebanese Christians.
 * 6) 98.194.124.102 (98) believes the source The Eternal Male supports the statements mentioned in points 3 and 4
 * 7) 98 believes the references that SD provides to establish Greek birth, Lebanese descent, and Christian parents are unreliable

Here's my opinion:
 * The Eternal Male, published by Doubleday is a reliable source. The objection that the text is not available online is not a valid objection. Two statements from Wikipedia policy resolve this issue:
 * From WP:RS: It is useful but by no means necessary for the archived copy to be accessible via the internet., and
 * From WP:BLP (after listing some restrictions on accepting self-published sources): These provisions do not apply to subjects' autobiographies that have been published by reliable third-party publishing houses; these are treated as reliable sources, because they are not self-published.
 * SD's source establishing Sharif as Greek-born is a reliable source. However, because of the amount of sources that give Alexandria as Sharif's birthplace, I'm in contact with the author of that encyclopedia article to see if it is in error.
 * I'll have to take a look at Sharif's autobiography today, but I suspect that only the un-struck portion of this sentence is supported by the autobiography:  Contrary to many websites that declare Omar Sharif of Greek, Lebanese, Syrian, Palestinian, or British birth or citizenship, Sharif was born in Egypt to Catholic Egyptian parents.
 * Again, I'll have to look at the source today, but I think the section, "Sharif affirms his Egyptian identity and his life-story intertwines with the history of Egypt especially during the eras of King Farouk and President Nasser." generalizes too much. How does his life-story intertwine? Did he live there during a certain time? If so, say that, rather than being vague. Specifics will be easier to support through the source rather than generalizations.
 * He makes no reference to any lineage to, or citizenship of, other countries: This seems like original research. We don't report what he didn't say unless some reliable source points this out.
 * The source doesn't establish that his parents were Lebanese or Christian, only that they lived in Zahleh before moving to Egypt.
 * The source only establishes that Omar was born to Lebanese parents. No source calls them Christian. No source describes him as having Lebanese descent. We could say at most something like, "Sharif's parents were Lebanese". The only question remaining is: do we consider www.proud2blebanese.com a reliable source. Does it have a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy? Or is it a questionable source with an unknown level of fact-checking and accuracy?

Points for improvement:
 * 98, use Citation templates that include page numbers in text that isn't available online to make it easier for other editors/readers to verify your contributions.
 * SD, avoid original research. Even the leap from "Sharif's parents were Lebanese", to "Sharif is of Lebanese descent" is going too far in an article about a living person.
 * Both of you need to calm down. Start by being less aggressive and less defensive. Focus on content. Don't characterize the other in any way in your discussions.

I'll check out the autobiography today and am in touch with the author of that encyclopedia article. I'll stick around and help out with this article for a bit too. You can follow up in this section with any questions you have about my opinion/interpretation. If one of you wants to start a discussion together regarding improvements to the article, maybe starting a new section will be best. Sancho 16:40, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * NY TIMES: http://movies.nytimes.com/person/64847/Omar-Sharif/biography, states Sharif was born in Alexandria, Egypt and his nationality is Egyptian. Has additional family info: "wealthy Lebanese-Egyptian" etc. NYT is considered a reliable source.Tttom1 (talk) 19:05, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, NYT says he is Lebanese-Egyptian, this is what the article should say. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:35, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It says his family is, not that he is. Please stay true to the sources. Sancho 21:37, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

"Born into a wealthy Lebanese-Egyptian family" If you are born into a Lebanese-Egyptian family, what does that make you?--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:41, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * "what does that make you?" ...It does not make you anything.  It's whatever you make of yourself and your own life.  (98.194.124.102 (talk) 01:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC))


 * Even if we suppose that the info. in the NYT is correct, the NYT article states that Omar Sharif's family was "wealthy Lebanese-Egyptian", not that Omar Sharif himself was such. This Wikipedia article is about Omar Sharif, not his family.  As Sancho also said, "the leap from "Sharif's parents were Lebanese", to "Sharif is of Lebanese descent" is going too far in an article about a living person."  It is an un-academic leap.  I would like to point out that labeling Omar Sharif as "Lebanese-Egyptian", inspite of his Egyptian birth and identity, may be analogous to labelling every Hispanic person in America as "Mexican-American".


 * On the issue of how "his life-story intertwines with the history of Egypt especially during the eras of King Farouk and President Nasser", and in response to Sancho's questions, in his autobiography, Omar Sharif recounts that he lived in Egypt from birth in 1932 till he moved to Europe in 1965. The Egyptian revolution took place in 1952.  Before 1952, Omar Sharif tells, at length, that King Farouk was an almost nighly guest at Omar's family's house, and that the King was a close personal friend and card game partner of Omar's mother.  Omar recounts that his mother was too delighted with this association because it gave her the privilege of "consorting only with the elite" of Egyptian society.  He also recounts that his father's timber business sky-rocketed during this time, in ways that Omar himself describes as dishonest or immoral.  By contrast, after 1952, Omar states that wealth changed hands (or names) in Egypt, under Nasser's nationalization policies.  His father's business "took a beating".  Travel restrictions in the form of "exit visas" were required of Egyptians, and his own travel to take part in international films was sometimes impeded, which he could not tolerate. The Nasser government's travel restrictions influenced Omar's decision to remain in Europe between his film shoots, a decision that cost him his marriage to Egyptian film legend Haten Hamama.  It was a major cross-roads in Omar's life and changed him from an established family man to a life-long bachelor living in European hotels.  His Egyptian citizenship was almost withdrawn by Nasser's government when Omar's affair with Barbra Streisand (a loud supporter of Israel) was made public in the Egyptian press.  These are some brief points, but one would need to read the book for details.


 * "www.proud2blebanese.com" and "www.forgottensyrians.com" and similar sources are not reliable because their motive is merely to take nationalistic/ethnic pride in anything (good) that may remotely have something to do with Lebanon and Syria, respectively, while their efforts in "fact-checking and accuracy" may be unscientific and highly questionable.


 * (98.194.124.102 (talk) 22:27, 18 June 2009 (UTC))
 * I'd suggest using a couple of those details rather than summarizing them into a sentence the way that is is right now. Not only will it be more accurate, it will also tell his life story better, and readers will get a better experience. Sancho 01:38, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Sancho, I have incorporated those changes in the article as per your suggestion. I have also included a statement that Omar Sharif's family may have had Levantine roots, as a compromise, only so that we can move on to other Egyptian articles currently being manipulated.  Please let me know what you think.(98.194.124.102 (talk) 22:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC))


 * "similar sources are not reliable because their motive is merely to take nationalistic/ethnic pride in anything (good)" .. you mean like Egyptian government homepage you have used several times? http://www.sis.gov.eg/VR/figures/english/html/Wagdy.htm --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:41, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd rather not digress from the subject at hand on this talk page about Omar Sharif. (98.194.124.102 (talk) 23:08, 18 June 2009 (UTC))
 * (replying to SD: "what does that make you?") Nobody's answer to that question matters... we aren't reliable sources, and we can't participate in original research. What's wrong with just saying that his family was Lebanese-Egyptian? Readers can infer what they want from that. Sancho 01:38, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Turner Classic Movies have stated that he was born to a Lebanese father and his mother was Syrian AND Lebanese. The Cairo Times March 05 1998 has stated "Omar Sherif was born Michel Dimitri Shalhoub in 1931 to a wealthy Alexandrian family of Christian Lebanese origin" http://omarsharif.netfirms.com/articles.htm http://www.tcm.com/thismonth/article/?cid=178897&rss=mrqe very reliable All sites seem to agree that he was of Lebanese origin and that his father and mother both were Lebanese. His father was an obvious emigrant from Lebanon. I think these facts should be stated because although Omar Sharif is a citizen of Egypt his country of origin is still Lebanon. His real name is Michael Shalhoub, Shalhoub is a Lebanese last name other Lebanese with the same last name is, Tony Shalhoub the actor of Monk.

This is not digressing from the subject at hand, these are relevant facts. Lebanese Egyptian sounds like you are saying his father was Lebanese and his mother was Egyptian which is not true. Sancho because by -origin- he was Lebanese and by citizenship he was Egyptian.

I do not see why people cannot just accept the truth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.208.37.205 (talk) 11:27, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Too much synthesis
I'm referring to this section: "Sharif was born in Egypt to Catholic parents, who, as many Egyptian Catholics, may have had roots in the The Levant. In his autobiography, The Eternal Male., Sharif affirms his Egyptian identity and his life-story intertwines with the history of Egypt especially during the eras of King Farouk and President Nasser. He makes no reference to any lineage to, or citizenship of, other countries. He proudly affirms, 'I am a son of Alexandria'." Sancho 23:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You provide no reference for "who, as many Egyptian Catholics, may have had roots in the The Levant."
 * In his autobiography, The Eternal Male.[1], Sharif affirms his Egyptian identity and his life-story intertwines with the history of Egypt especially during the eras of King Farouk and President Nasser. - This is too much synthesis. You describe the details of this in a later paragraph... no need to summarize it here, and we're not actually allowed to by policy.
 * He makes no reference to any lineage to, or citizenship of, other countries. - We don't have a source that notes this. We don't need to say what he doesn't say unless a reliable source points it out.
 * He proudly affirms, "I am a son of Alexandria - We don't know he "proudly" affirmed this. Also, we don't even need this sentence. It's already said at the start of the section that he's born in Alexandria.


 * OK, I agree. All of the above can be removed.  (98.194.124.102 (talk) 23:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC))
 * Cool, I'll change it. Also, take a look at Referencing_for_beginners. If you're using the exact same reference (same page and everything) more than once, you can use that to shorten the amount you need to write. Sancho 23:13, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for changing it. I am tired of changing it myself.  Can we move on to the other articles?  Initially, I referenced only once, then found {citation needed} after each sentence in the paragraph!  (98.194.124.102 (talk) 23:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC))