Talk:Omega Psi Phi/2006-Archive

Bulldog as insignia
Correct me if i'm wrong the bulldog is not a symbol of Omega and i think that there was an announcement somewhere that any frat member wearing such insignia, would be expelled from the fraternity. Also, I think the official nickname of the frat members is "Omega Men", not Ques, not Omegas. Am I right? Cuz if I am, I'll go ahead and change it. Project2501a 00:05, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Please do not just blank talk pages. It's really bad ettiquete. You're not protecting OPP by blanking the talk page. Try to to make a better article, instead. Project2501a 8 July 2005 21:19 (UTC)

That standpoint regarding the nickname & symbol has been disbanded. Official or not, the nickname 'Ques' has stood the test of time.

Dog symbol and nickname updates
The official website makes no mention of the dog insignia (unlike the lamp). Please provide reliable sources to verify these additions. If these are unofficial symbols or nicknames, an additional section discussing the history (and any controvesy) would be a great addition (so long as there are reliable sources to verify) Thanks -- Siobhan Hansa  23:43, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Que Dawg
Someone with the IP number 70.18.243.237 keeps post Que dog/dawgs as Omega Psi Phi Fraaternity member's nickname. The canine reference is not official. Please do not add it again.

Que Dog, Q dog and Que Dawg
Que Dog is an unofficial nickname that was given to members of the fraternity. It can be seen at various fraternity websites

http://www.quedog.com/

"8. What's the distinction between an "Omega Man" and a "Que Dog"?

A: An "Omega Man" is the name sake term bestowed upon members of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity, Inc. once it's members cross the burning sands. A "Que-Dog" is a mythical term used to identify pledges while on line during the final stage of the pledge process. It's important to understand that "Que Dogs", canine calls, and camouflage paraphernalia doesn't directly reflect the entire outlook of the organization as set in the guideline by the Grand Chapter. *Please note* Never address or call a member of Omega a "Que-Dog" for it is rather disrespectful. In essence "MEMBERSHIP HAS ITS PRIVILEGES!" "

http://www.msstate.edu/org/nphc/to%2015%20faq.htm

www.cafepress.com/greekorigins/1121389

64.131.205.160 02:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Alpha Phi Alpha and Kappa Alpha Psi
I believe this sentence to be irrelavent to Omega Psi Phi introductory paragraph as well as history.

Alpha Phi Alpha (December 1906) and Kappa Alpha Psi (January 1911), founded at predominately white universities, predates the Omega Psi Phi founding.[1] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 152.163.101.6 (talk).


 * If not for the NPHC section that I added, this article would only be an introduction. If you want to move it from the introduction, then you can place it in the main body if you choose to expand the article. Ccson 20:06, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Focus on omega history and accomplishments of its members not of the history of another fraternity. 64.131.205.160 07:48, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * when this is placed or something similiar is placed on the Alpha Phi Alpha article, maybe it'll seem relavent, but right now it just seems to be show boating. "Phi Beta Kappa, the first American college fraternity, was organized on the campus of the College of William and Mary in 1776. Men and women are members of this college honorary scholarship society. Greek-lettered fraternities and sororities have played a major role in American college life since 1776. Black college fraternities and sororities did not emerge until the early 1900's. Unlike their white counterparts, the black groups have remained very active at the graduate level. Since their founding, these groups have played a major role in the cultural, social and civic life of their communities. " —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.131.205.160 (talk).


 * Ccson, I don't really see the point in expanding the article if the content isn't abput the subject of the article. Is there some connection that isn't spelt out in the paragraph?  Because at the moment it seems like an addition that focuses on other fraternities, not this one.  --Siobhan Hansa 19:37, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * NPOV. I'm surprised that you can't see that the article is now more than just 4 introductory paragraphs. There's a History, Membership, and International programs sections.  The information regarding the other organization was present for months, but was removed by another user; so it's not part of the expansion request.  I just re-added the information; please see the history pages, but you may have to look further back than 2 weeks when your presence was noticed.  The Omega website makes a reference to Phi Beta Kappa as part of its history, do you see any connection between an honor society and the founding of a social fraternity for black men on historically black college campus? There wasn't a PBK chapter at Howard in 1911, and I'm not aware of any Omega founder transferring to Howard from a school with a PBK chapter, but AKA and APA were present?  If PBK was the impetus for Omeag, they would have created an academic honor society for black students.  PBK is mentioned becaue it began the fraternal movement, and the other NPHC members are in this article because  because it presents a solid foundation for the black fraternal movement that evolved during the 1900s, thus a NPOV.  Plus, from the Omega info added my NinjaNubian above, the Omega site does makes reference to Black college fraternities and sororities did not emerge until the early 1900's, I'm just providing the facts of what organizations began this new fraternal movemment.


 * The request to expand is barely 48 hours old, but is extended to all wikipedia contributors, including yourself.  I invite you to be bold and provide brilliant prose to this article that has been stagnant for months, but allow those trying to improve the article a little more time to do the necessary research and obtain the proper information that is factual, reputable, citable and verifiable. Ccson 05:21, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * CCson - Sorry if it looked like I was attacking all the work that has gone into expanding this article. I agree that it is much improved.  I was merely voicing agreement with the IP contributor(s) above,that this particular small part of the addition is inappropriate.  Providing facts on the organizations that began the black fraternity and soroity movement would be appropriate on an article about black fraternities and srorities (or about fraternities and soroities in general).  But putting it into an article on one particular organization in the way that it is written takes the focus away from the subject of the article.  I had refrained from rewriting the section myself because I saw you had reverted other editors on the matter. Posting here seemed a more constructive way to address the matter.  I suggest something more like Omega Psi Phi became the first African-American fraternity to be established at a black college when founded on November 11, 1911 at Howard University. (other fraternal organizations had been founded at predominately white universities before this date ).  By 1920 Omega Psi Phi had 10 chapters and in 1930 the organization became a founding member of the National Pan-Hellenic Council.  --Siobhan Hansa 09:20, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm also sorry if I misunderstood. The other editors were not rewriting the text, they were summarily removing it, and that is supppression.  Again, the Omega site is clear in mentioning Phi Beta Kappa's role in the fraternal movement and they are not offended. Your version would be suppressing information as if it were an insult to Omega Psi Phi.   It only hints at the black fraternal movement.  I think the readers deserve to know which organizations began the black fraternal movement and a simple mention of their name just shows a neutral point.  The point of wikipedia is that it provides links to lead readers to other articles within the same subject matter.  I'll see if I can strike a compriese. Thanks for you input and please let me know your thoughts. Ccson 12:03, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Ccson, all you are really trying to do is to insert Alpha Phi Alpha's name into the website of Omega Psi Phi.  You are a member of the fraternity and have been doing it in various other websites including, Kappa Alpha Psi, and Alpha Kappa Alpha.  If you're so for the non supression of evidence I would dare you to recognize Sigma Pi Phi in Alpha Phi Alpha's website or recognize Alpha Kappa Nu as the first inter-collegiate black fraternity.   We both know you won't, so move on!  64.131.205.160 03:41, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

ps Phi Beta Kappa is now an honor society, but previous to this it was a fraternity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phi_Beta_Kappa

64.131.205.160 03:41, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Is this a fantasy article?
First of all, the anti-hazing policy statement while technically true, is total fiction as far as its enforcement. That needs to be mentioned on a realistic page about the fraternity. Secondly, I noticed the discussion above about the nickname Q dawg and the bulldog as mascot. While these might not be "official" nicknames or symbols of the fraternity, they need to be included on a page that aspires to be truly informative because of the overwhelming popularity of both of those symbols.Pihanki 06:19, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


 * If you can find references form reliable sources it would be great to see this sort of thing in the article. --Siobhan Hansa 11:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Karl Malone a member?
Are you sure that Karl Malone a member of the Omega Psi Phi Fraternity? Please verify. Contact Omega Psi Phi national headquarters for proper verification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 147.72.108.1 (talk).

Karl Malone
Karl Malone is not an Omega. He displayed the Omega hand sign during the 1995 playoffs. As there was a lot of media attention within the fraternity about it, he is not a member of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity. Jsmith212 21:18, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

He's generally believed to be a member of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity,Inc.but this has been in dispute for a few years now.

The above sentence was written by 68.53.147.54. Please sign your name or IP #. Jsmith212 14:35, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Mandated Programs
I agree that this article must be expanded, therefore I add the manadated programs section. Also, I will add citations.

Jsmith212 14:33, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

The sections is good, but I don't think you need to list all of them. for example, the memorial service program. There should be a sentence to describe the International programs and rather a bullet list, put them in more of an encyclopedic tone, just discuss the major programs here. I have to leave now, but will try to add more copyedit later. Ccson 18:56, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Ernest E. Just
Ernest E. Just's photograph was added by me to include more visuals on this article page.

Jsmith212 15:08, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Ccson
there is a talk section going on,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Omega_Psi_Phi#Alpha_Phi_Alpha_and_Kappa_Alpha_Psi

Ccson is a member of Alpha Phi Alpha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ccson Ccson is continuously placing Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity in various portions of the article. One time in the intro paragraph of the Omega PSi Phi article ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Omega_Psi_Phi&oldid=76794285

his contributions

of the omega psi phi article. this doesn't happen in any other article. i.e Alpha Phi Alpha  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Phi_Alpha

there is an entire history that can be added basd from the official website http://www.oppf.org/about/history.asp

his talks are semi helpful at best with other users, but his contributions at best seem be showboating for his fraternity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jsmith212

64.131.205.160 17:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Skip Mason
I'm wondering what makes the contributions of Skip Mason any different from a personal website, opinion article or editorial..

Reading this, I wonder if it really is less objective and more subjective

"As a historian who recognizes that laying a foundation for any period of history, I find their omission inexcusable and without merit. Permit me to share some a few statements (and of course my personal commentary in between) from their books:  "

http://www.skipmason.com/hm/hm08.htm

on some of his website pages he states "DISCLAIMER: This page is not affiliated with the National Organization. I am not the Historian of the fraternity, just a brother who is and has always been thirsty for more knowledge on this organization. The information provided has been thoroughly researched and documented and is brought to you with all the fraternal love and spirit I possess. Sources are available upon request. " http://www.skipmason.com/about.htm

ManOfTke 18:14, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
 * the facts are true, but his personal opinion regarding the facts are his view, are that's why his opinion is put in quotations. Ccson 19:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

with no sources except for his words, how is one to differentiate? 64.131.205.160 03:23, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Membership
A section was added to describe Omega different types of membership.

Jsmith212 20:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I provided some copyedit to this section to make it less verbose and hopefully a little more reader friendly. Let me know what you think. Ccson 06:31, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your assistance Ccson.

Jsmith212 14:02, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

False Info
Someone with the IP# 70.179.64.119 is adding false infomation, such as only African American students can pledge and Omegas 'must' receive a brand.

Jsmith212 13:54, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Dealing with Vandalism
You may wish to review the various template warnings that may be placed on the talk pages of vandals, even if they are writing in from anon IPs (found at WP:USETEMP). If the bad edit was an honest mistake, you can put the person on a good-faith notice; you also help create a "paper trail" if the editor is operating in bad faith, which is usually required before blocking. I would also suggest checking out WP:VANDAL as well. -Robotam 16:00, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

First African-American fraternity ...?
Looking at previous discussions, I may be raising a sore point, but...

From a recent edit:

"Omega Psi Phi became the first African-American fraternity to be established at a black college when founded on 17 November 1911 at Howard University. It was founded by Edgar Love, Frank Coleman, and Oscar Cooper also known as the 'Three Musketeers'. At this time the only fraternity at Howard University was Alpha Phi Alpha."

Now, if Howard is a black college, and Alpha Phi Alpha is an African-American fraternity, then it is not possible that (a) Alpha Phi Alpha was at Howard before Omega Psi Phi and (b) Omega Psi Phi was the first African-American fraternity to be established at a black college. Peronally, I have no knowledge either way, but which is it? -- Pawl 05:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * You're missing a the established in your interpretation. Alpha Phi Alpha was established at Cornell, which was not a black college. So there were black fraternities operating in black colleges before Omega Psi Phi was founded, but none of them were started at black colleges.  --Siobhan Hansa 20:04, 3 December 2006 (UTC)