Talk:Omorashi

Factual Accuracy re: Lohan
I'm not one to spring to Lindsay's defense for her sake, but the article referenced (http://socialitelife.buzznet.com/2005/09/28/lindsay_lohan_gets_moist.php) does not in any way make it clear that she has ever actually wet herself publicly, nor does it link her possibly having done so to any other such events. It definitely wasn't on the Howard Stern show. In addition, Lindsay Lohan makes no mention whatsoever of this occurrence. Until someone can source this a little better, I'm removing it. Personman (talk) 01:44, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Relevence to the diaper lover article
BTW, does anyone know if omorashi is even for real? I never heard of it before yesterday, and the article seems to have been written single-handedly by Fsecret. Anonymous55 21:31, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It appears to be a real Japanese word, but other pages don't seem to use it to describe a specific paraphilia. One ABDL page that discusses the word, defines it as "a colloquial term for the act of urination" or "peeing uncontrollably."  A non-ABDL online dictionary  translates it simply as "peeing."  There might be fine nuances involved that are best left in the hands of editors who know Japanese, in the Japanese language wiki.BitterGrey 05:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, but the omorashi article I was referring to is an English-language one that Fsecret recently created. The article claims that it's a fetish with some kind of special association with Japanese culture, which seems dubious to me.  Fetishes generally don't depend on nationality, and if it's for real, I would expect there would be an English word for it, and that word should be the title of the article.  I'll leave it for people who know something about the subject to deal with, but I'm definitely not going to add a link to it.  This whole thing is setting off a bunch of red flags for me. Anonymous55 06:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * As in the case of panalphilia, the test was to find sources outside of wikipedia. If Google can't find a substantial number of English uses of the word, then perhaps it doesn't belong in the English wikipedia.  I've read Fsecret's article, which seems to apply the same word to game show contestants as to those with a paraphilia.  If the word simply means "urination," "urinary urge," or "urinary accident," this isn't incorrect.  This would, however, not be grounds for an English article. BitterGrey 14:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Check the outside links. Omorashi is a type of erotica in which women experiance bathroom desperation and wet themselves, usually in their panties, sometimes in a diaper. The game shows and the erotic (though admitedly, only erotic to someone turned on by girls wetting themselves) videos are produced by the same handful of companies for the same fanbase: people who enjoy seeing girls try to hold it and fail. A quick visit to Giga or Sanwa should statisfy anyone who is sceptical about the existance of omorashi. There are also some fetish glossaries here that define it.


 * A Japanese fetish glossary
 * Another Japanese fetish glossary

I added the reference on the diaper lover page because omutsu omorashi is the Japanese equivalent of diaper fetishish. What is interesting about it is that unlike in english speaking countries, their diaper lover community is not associated with their adult baby community. (Which, FYI, is called Aka-chan.) Certainly notable on the diaper lover page, in my opinion.

As for the info I added, I am glad that Anonymous55 has gone on record to say that there were ideas there that might be fitted into the article. I will tread a little lighter next time, and perhaps these contributions can be worked in without so much fuss. Sorry for rushing in like that. I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. Fsecret 23:42, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, by the way, if checking for relevence to omorashi, Sanwa primarily focuses on diaper content, where Giga has more of the little "I-have-to-pee-but-can't-make-it" dramas. Fsecret 23:49, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I have copied and pasted the omorashi discussion to the appropriate talk page. Fsecret 23:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I looked at your links. In the first one, the word "omorashi" does not appear anywhere.  In the second one, it's hard to tell because the English is so fractured (in fact it looks like a machine translation from Japanese), but it looks like it's describing a type of service offered by prostitutes.  It says that "omorashi" means to pee ones pants, but in what context?  Only in an erotic context as your article suggests, or in any context?  You can't tell from the link.  And the way the service is described makes it sound like the prostitute is playing a "mommy" role, as in infantilism, which sounds completely different from what your article says.


 * Your link to "Giga" brings up what looks like a page of pornographic video covers. I'm sorry, but I'm not about to wade through a bunch of material like that in order to find out what a word means.  The one to "Sanwa" just brings up what I assume to be an explicit content warning in Japanese (which I can't read), so I'm going to assume it's more of the same.


 * You just said that omorashi is a type of erotica, by which I assume you mean pornography. But your article says its a fetish.  Which is it? Those are two different things.  (This ties into another problem I had with your edits to diaper lover, which I left out because I couldn't figure out how to express it before - that you seem to talk about fetishes and genres of pornography as if they're the same thing.  And I hope I don't have to explain why that's a huge problem as far as the infantilism and diaper lover articles are concerned.)


 * I'm finding this all very confusing, and I'm afraid I'm still no closer to understanding what "omorashi" encompases, and what relation it has, if any, to diaper lovers.


 * And I just want to clarify that the reason I reverted your edits was the specific problems that they introduced (including the ones I listed previously), and not just because you weren't discussing first. I appreciate your discussing first, and by discussing we can hopefully avoid the problems that make reverts necessary.  But the reverts were based on the content, not on behavior. Anonymous55 10:10, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, first of all I suppose I should address my use of the term erotica vs. pornography. Pornography generally implies nudity or sex. Omorashi activity never involves sex and rarely involves any nudity at all. Someone totally unacquainted with the idea might watch an omorashi video and not see anything sexual about it. However, for an omorashi fetishist, seeing a girl have a bathroom accident is very erotic. Without actual sex to worry about, the omorashi fetish videos provided by companies like Giga and Sanwa range from documentary (video of a fetish convention where girls are wetting their pants or having diapers changed) to dramatic (a staged scenario with actors and a script which ends in a girl wetting herself) to game shows (like Giga's Desperation Tournament.) It is hard to call a gameshow pornography when we generally associate the term with people who get off from watching actual sex. However, Giga and companies like it market all of these side by side as "omorashi." Even if one cannot read Japanese, it is easy to verify this by looking at the page that you described as looking like "a page of pornographic video covers." Most of these videos have the word OMORASHI printed in roman letters on the front. As for the translation, what can I say? Google has yet to perfect the automatic translator. You could ask it to show you the original page, but then it would be in all Japanese. By the way, anyone wanting to view the main sight can scroll to the bottom of the page and click "TOP PAGE," clearly printed in English. This will take you away from the omorashi page to the main page, where you can see Giga's other "erotic-but-not-necessarily-pornographic" movies.

The "prostitution" you refer to is probably the omorashi service at an "image club" or "pink salon." Prostitution is illegal in Japan, though the only thing the Japanese government defines as such is genital-to-genital contact. Pink Salons are establishments that have in the past specialized in oral sex, but these days have gradually added a number of other "not-quite-sex" services. They are a place where one can go to receive a massage plus oral sex or a range of other fetish oriented services that are not sex, but are as good as sex to a fetishist. Image clubs offer an extensive range of fantasy services that include costumes and settings. An omorashi service can involve either the client, the masseuse, or both, wetting themselves, with or without a diaper. This can sometimes involved a "teiku auto" or "take out" where you get to take home your masseuse's wet panties or diaper, or just their urine in a bottle.

Omorashi is more than a "genre of pornography." It is a highly developed Japanese fetish subculture that, though it does not involve sex or even in most cases nudity, is catered to by the purveyors of adult entertainment in that country.

By the way, the Sanwa link that you said looks like an adult content warning is. Click on the button in the middle of the page and you will go into the site and onto a page that says "omorashi web club." That much is in English. Not much else on the site is, but there will be one of a few randomly assorted welcome pictures of a girl in wet panties or a diaper that anyone can understand.

Omorashi is a fetish thing. Anyone who would describe themselves as an omorashi fan will tell you that seeing a girl wet herself in a diaper gets them off. This is not always true of those who identify as "AB/DL." I think it would benefit both this page and the paraphilc infantilism page to find a statistic regarding exactly how many "AB/DLs" do not regard what they do as sexual.

Anyhow, those who identify as diaper fetishists and would agree that seeing a girl wet herself in a diaper is erotic for them. They would probably regard diaper-wearing omorashi fans as fellow diaper lovers. Fsecret 02:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The presence or absence of sexual practices, such as masturbation, etc., is plotted in Figure #8 of the first results report on the AB, DL, Etc survey. The level of sexual interest (but possibly not activity) is plotted in Figure #7.


 * Back on the subject of omorashi, I think more material needs to be available on the subject. The second fetish glossary doesn't distinguish it from common AB practices (wetting and being changed), and the first doesn't seem to list the word. BitterGrey 05:40, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, that clears up some things. If "omorashi" is the name of a subculture, then it actually does make some sense to have an article by that name in the English language wikipedia, describing the subculture.  However, I think you definitely need to change the opening paragraph of your article so it says that it's a subculture, rather than saying it's a fetish.  That would do a lot to reduce the confusion.


 * A fetish is not a subculture, and vice versa. A fetish is a psychological state, and is independent of culture.  A subculture can revolve around a fetish, but that doesn't make the two equivilent. A person can be a fetishist without being a member of/participant in any subculture.


 * When I was using the word "pornography", I meant it in a way that includes things that don't depict nudity or intercourse, including what you're calling "erotica" rather than pornography. The distiction between material that's only erotic to someone with a paraphilia and that which isn't is the least of the distinctions I'm concerned about.  And on that note, I obviously do need to explain why it's a problem to couch infantilism and diaper fetishes in the kind of terms that you were.


 * These things you're talking about, the "omorashi fetish videos", the "pink salons", even the game shows - they're all about sexual gratification turned into a product, to be bought and sold. What the infantilism and diaper lover articles are about, when they're about behaviors at all rather than mere psychological states, is for the most part things that people do in private, either by themselves, or with partners who are consenting adults, and who are taking part because they want to, and not because they're being paid.  Nobody's being exploited. But in this "omorashi" stuff, you've got real women, doing things that demean themselves, (whether or not a straight person would recognise it as being sexual), for someone else's gratification, for money.  And you've got companies whose business is exploiting these women sexually/financially, selling videos of them on sites like the ones you pointed me to, or whatever. (And I'm not going to go look at those sites again, no matter how many times you say it.  That shit offends me, okay?)


 * I know this stuff exists, and that it isn't going away. And its existence might as well be documented.  And Wikipedia isn't censored.  But when you do things like compare the situation of diaper lovers to that of "omorashi enthusiasts", and use words like "hardcore" and "softcore", and "participate", and go on about how hard it is for diaper lovers to find their "materials" on the web, etc., the picture you're painting is of someone who is automatically going to be someone who's contributing to/providing a market for that kind of exploitation.  And there's enough of a stigma attached to infantilism already without adding in that whole new dimension. Anonymous55 09:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Anonymous55 - I think you need to lighten up. By all means explore the definitions, and try to learn and understand more, but don't berate contributors and abusively refuse to look at information they provide because of some pre-existing personal moral crusade of yours.

Omorashi is for real, and the fact that you had not heard of it before, or that one person took it upon himself to write an article, is irrelevant. What the word actually means I can't say, but the "fetish" (for want of a better word) of wetting oneself, or liking to see others wet themselves, is very real, and is certainly not confined to Japan. I could point you at a number of US and UK websites that deal with the topic, but you'd probably refuse to look at them too. As far as I know there is no English word for it, other than the simple descriptive "wetting" or "desperation", i.e. there is no equivalent of urolagnia or urophagia, but again that doesn't make it any less real. It's all part of the spectrum of "pee-play", but there are people who although they enjoy wetting would not want to be urinated on, or to drink urine.Wetmikep 02:30, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't usually associate with articles like this, I came across it accidentally, but it seems odd that there is a company like that named Giga... I have a username on an online game named Gigabyte, usually abbreviated with Giga. A lot of people in my school class (in 2005) knew that... and they also knew that I passionately hate subjects like "Omorashi", or whatever it's called... and so did some people on that website... nice try Fsecret but you can't fool me. Although I'm sure the fetish is real due to insane (probably fake) stories I've overheard people tell. I guess Fsecret is proof isn't he? Ghostkaiba297 (talk) 23:46, 29 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Besides, I was unfortunate enough to see the image here once and it looked fake. Ghostkaiba297 (talk) 23:48, 29 March 2011 (UTC)


 * If any aspects of this article ARE fake, then it can qualify as either original research or vandalism, then he'll have to answer to wikipedia's chief admin, Bignole. Wikipedia was nicknamed "ErikBignolepedia" for a reason, and the guy's extremely strict about verifiable info... Although it IS a bit questionable as to why he'd let some potential OR or vandalism be on here, AND I've seen stuff in other articles with potentially fake resources that he mysteriously seems to ignore... Nah, I think he's just too busy reverting edits on Jason Voorhees's page to pay attention to other articles, but if I receive any evidence of false info that Fsecret put simply to indulge his fetish, I'll report him to Bignole. Ghostkaiba297 (talk) 00:51, 30 March 2011 (UTC)


 * OK, Bignole should be on his way. Except for where Jason Voorhees is concerned, he's gotta be good at checking resources for verifiability if he's the chief admin here. He should clear up any misunderstandings and arguments here. If he says Fsecret's resources check out, he may never be questioned again. If not, well I've never seen what he does to people who REALLY anger him, I've argued with him but I've always spoken to him with as much respect as possible in an argument and he hasn't banned me. And if he ignores it entirely, then there might be a chance that either he's a fake or is too worried about "cleaning up" Jason's article to check other articles. Either way, I shan't be making a return trip to this unsettling article. Ghostkaiba297 (talk) 03:39, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Deletion
If anyone has plans to reference this, then it doesn't get deleted. A part of the reason why nobody knows what this is about is the lack of references.Lotusduck 03:32, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I am compiling references. However, it seems that I am the only one working on this article, so it may take a little while. There are already many within the article, so this is not an article for deletion. Just be patient. I will babysit this article and add better references periodically, and in time more intersted parties will gravitate towards it. Fsecret 03:33, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not exactly sure where to place this comment so it is going here for now. In reading the comments about this article I noticed a few individuals who felt the use of a Japanese word to describe a (for lack of a better word) subculture in an English article as incorrect usage. I just felt it would be useful to point out that western society often assimilates foreign concepts and vocabulary.


 * In the taste of the "sexual interests" department I'd like to point out some examples of Japanese sexual subcultures/fetishes (am I correct in the usage) that influenced western sexual practices:
 * Shibari - The use of ropes sexually and erotically. Often tied in a particular style popularly attributed to Japanese origin. This could fall under a subculture of rope fetishes and or BDSM play. And further influenced by other Japanese words such as: Karada and Shinju.
 * Hentai - Often noticed in western culture as pornographic images that are animated and/or drawn. This is an excellent example of a Japanese word that takes on a subculture meaning in western cultures because in Japan the term is not specific to animated pornography but a broader slang term meaning sexually perverse and/or explicit.
 * Bukkake - Another popular sexual subculture from Japan with a Japanese word. Western cultures use this as a term to describe such a subculture and/or sexual practice.
 * Lotion play - A possible example of another Japanese originated practice that was assimilated into western culture.


 * I'm sure there are many others. The point is all of these Japanese oriented sexual practises and/or subcultures have been to some extent assimilated by western culture. Yet we find thier articles on the English wikipedia. Why would Omorashi be any different? --Sukima 04:54, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Cited sources
I have removed the "This article does not site any sources" tag due to the fact that it now cites many sources. However, it still needs a little work. Any help anyone wants to offer would be great. Fsecret 23:54, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

This article has come a long way as far as sourcing goes. Unless anyone can find any specific claims that demand sourcing, I think it is time to take down the "orginal research" tag too. If no objections are voiced within a week, the tag will be taken down and the discussion archived. Further sourcing is always a good thing though ... now that there are some more people discovering this article, I encourage everyone to look for new links and sources to help it grow, especially with regard to communities and publications outside of Japan. Fsecret 15:24, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Title of video and caption of sign
According to the official site, the title of the cited DVD is "New Pee-holding Tournament, Vol. 2, Part 1."

And I'm afraid that "don't urinate" sign in Japan is quite misleading. It never is standard nor official sign in Japan. It may only be one of the possible design examples of private posters. Did Fsecret make that by himself? The caption should be specified anyway to avoid misunderstanding. -- unsigned

The title was taken from the index of japanese fetish videos listed in external links. If that is the correct title, then it should be changed. The "don't urinate" sign is from google. I was reading about japanese attitudes toward public urination when I recalled that I had seen images of such signs before. I did an image search a sure enough, it popped up. It may vary well be a private practice to post such signs. If the person who commented above would like to look into such details, it would certainly strengthen the article. Fsecret 00:29, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I have been digging around trying to find out more about Japanese public ordinances on urination. I discovered a few variations on the listed sign. I have removed the qualifier "street" from the description of the sign to give a more general impression that does not specifically imply that the city government is solely responsible for such signs. Fsecret 20:01, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Yagai
I think that there are already sufficant photo referances here, but this is a very good example of yagai:

http://ethnorotica.com/article/80/only-in-japan

Fsecret 01:27, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Working on a list
I'm compiling a list of anime and manga featuring omorashi. When it has become well populated, it may be moved to list of media featuring omorashi to include live action videos and eroge entries. As always, help would be welcome.

Fsecret 02:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The list of dipictions in the popular arts in the Urolagnia article might have dipictions in movies,TV shows that might be of use here. There are a couple of Japanese movies listed. I would copy not move them here as this is loosly a sub catagory of Urolagnia in most of the west.

Fair use rationale for Image:Shizukuishi kyuun kyuun toilet paper.jpg
Image:Shizukuishi kyuun kyuun toilet paper.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:19, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Omorashi in Japan
This is because we don't use selfreferential names in headings.68.148.164.166 (talk) 03:51, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

In "Western publications and media" the quotation needs to be unitatlized, "The Leak" needs to be "The Leak", "In print" needs to be "Print", and "In music" needs to be "Music".-68.148.164.166 (talk) 04:00, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Duly noted ... but next time you find errors like that, please correct them yourself instead of leaving the job for the next person. Fsecret (talk) 20:51, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Would the anonymous editor who insists upon reverting the new Brooklyn Rail reference please help discuss how it should be included?
Recently, the Brooklyn rail has run a second omorashi story. This story is by a different author than the one they ran in 2006, and it is notable for the fact that it does not contain Japanese characters or settings as the last one did. This makes it of unique importance to the "Outside of Japan" section. Clearly, it is an example of purely American omorashi subculture.

The original inclusion of this reference attempted to contrast the differences in content between Japanese and non-Japanese manifestations of the fetish with their similarities in attitude. It read as follows:

''Feminine submission remains a constant in omorashi materials published outside of Japan, even when no female characters are involved. For instance, the June 2008 issue of The Brooklyn Rail featured a piece of short fiction focused on the sexual feelings of a young man who wets his pants when he is tickled. Though he expresses sexual feelings toward girls, he becomes the submissive partner in a gay relationship when another boy discovers and exploits this weakness.''

The problem with this revision was that it contained original research. The first sentence is an unsourced fact, a fact which must remain unsourced (and therefore not included on wikipedia) due to the fact that discussion in fetish communities takes place most often on message boards rather than in published articles. Therefore, the first attempt at a revision was altered as follows:

''However, not all American omorashi materials center around Japanese characters and female wetters. For instance, a June 2008 issue of The Brooklyn Rail featured a piece of short fiction focused on the sexual feelings of a young man who wets his pants when he is tickled. Though he expresses sexual feelings toward girls, he becomes the submissive partner in a gay relationship when another boy discovers and exploits this weakness.''

This revision continued to be met with the objection that the source contains only story, and that analysis and commentary by WP editors is WP:OR. One needs an outside party in order to make an analysis.

In the opinion of this editor, the revision above did not qualify as analysis so much as a plot summery, a summery which leaves it up to the reader how to interpret the events described and their departures from the Japanese standard. However, I could certainly see how the description in the last sentence could skew the perspective of the article away from neutrality. I revised the statement a second time:

''However, not all American omorashi materials center around Japanese characters and female wetters. For instance, a June 2008 issue of The Brooklyn Rail featured a piece of short fiction focused on the sexual feelings of a young American man who wets his pants when he is tickled.''

It is certainly true that the source cited, the story itself, if examined even a glance, will reveal that the sentence "not all American omorashi materials center around Japanese characters and female wetters" is true. The narrator and wetter is an American man. To summarize the text as describing this character's sexual feelings does not seem to be debatable either. The story is erotica - a form which by definition begins and ends with a description of the protagonist's sexual feelings. There have been no objections to the earlier reference that the 2006 story describes the shooting of an omorashi film in Japan with Japanese characters. I am confused as to what needs to be done to make the new reference as acceptable as the old. Could the editor concerned make any suggestions on this matter? Fsecret (talk) 21:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * My objection is that YOU are using the actual stories to provide evidence for analysis and other claims. Use of such primary sources easily slips from direct quotes to original research where Wikipedia editors are making the claims and analysis. All claims and analysis in Wikpedia need to be made and quoted from reliable sources. If you are able to provide a link to a preface to the article where the claim "not all American omorashi materials center around Japanese characters and female wetters" is made by someone other than you (say the editor of the magazine), then that claim can be included in the article attributed to the person who made the analysis. Your analysis no matter how brilliant and true it may be, if it is not verifiable by being published in a reliable source should not be in the Wikipedia article and will continue to be removed. 207.69.140.25 (talk) 06:51, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I would consider a simple declarative statement: The American periodical Brooklyn Rail has published diaper lover fiction. citation citation to be permisable use of the primary sources. Pretty much anything else and you are getting into analysis.207.69.140.25 (talk) 06:51, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, I suppose something like "In 2008, the Brooklyn Rail ran a second omorashi story." would be an acceptable compromise since it would at least allow the reference to be included. However, a statement like that doesn't really explain why this second story is being mentioned at that point in the article. It is pretty standard procedure to include plot summaries when talking about short fiction on wikipedia. The sentence "A June 2008 issue of The Brooklyn Rail featured a piece of short fiction focused on the sexual feelings of a young American man who wets his pants when he is tickled." Is definitely not WP:OR any more than the article for The Fall of the House of Usher, which contains a far more detailed plot summery and is rated as a B class article. Though there are WP:OR tags in the article there are none in the plot summery section. Ideally, there would be at least a sentence there to at least indicate that it is a purely American story and therefore notable. Fsecret (talk) 00:46, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I understand the point you want to make, but the fact is that it is a point that you are making = OR. You need to find someone else who has made the point in some other reliable source.

Establishing notability isn't really a point I am trying to make ... it is a requirement of Wikipedia. It seems unavoidable that to include the reference it must be explained why a link to the online version of that particular issue of Brooklyn Rail is appearing in the section on Omorashi in print outside of Japan. Fsecret (talk) 21:54, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * "must be explained why a link to the online version of that particular issue of Brooklyn Rail is appearing" - EXACTLY - and that is why the pieces of fiction themselves are of little use as sources for Wikipedia as primary sources/evidence. What you need is someone in say Slate.com who writes "Gee, there is a lot of Omorashi fiction appearing in American magazines like BR. Bladder desperation is no longer a phenomena limited to Japanese fetish culture." Unlike research conducted for school, you need to find a secondary source that has noticed your pieces of evidence and makes the analysis/claim that you want to add to the article - you cannot make the analysis yourself. If no one else has made that claim, it is original research and not allowed. 207.69.137.23 (talk) 22:50, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

link farm
Wikipedia is not a clollection of external links. These have been moved form the article to see which gain consensus of meeting the guidelines for external links. Please add your comments.

comments on which (if any) to include and how they meet the guidelines
Well, the Wet Set and Brooklyn Rail links seem to fit pretty clearly into the first category of WP:ELYES. The article mentions the publications by name and references specific issues of both magazines. In the case of Brooklyn Rail, the articles in question are freely availible on their website. Specific Wet Set articles, issues, and photosets aren't freely available, but they do have their back issues cataloged in an index with notes on what issues featured what.

Link number 5 seems to fit under the WP:ELMAYBE criteria since it is a review of a game that the article addresses specifically. Fsecret (talk) 01:33, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Fergie and 'the leak'
AskMen appears to be a questionable source at best. It is purporting to report information from Heat article - I was not able to locate the article in Heat. -4.158.222.249 (talk) 00:38, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Fergie reference in need of verification
Though Fergie would bring it up again during an interview with the British Heat magazine, the singer claimed that she would "never live it down."

Mass deletions
You "couldn't find" the Heat reference? I understand the criticism of using celebrity gossip blogs as sources, but this is a real magazine. What, did you go to the library, run a check for Fergie interviews in men's magazines, index and pull the ones that came up, and read each of them looking for quotes? Did you not see it there? Is that what you mean?

I'm going to assume good faith here and say that I appreciate what you are doing. Establishing legitimacy through reliable sources is one of the most important, difficult, and time consuming things that needs to happen for a Wikipedia article. However, a wholesale wipe of an entire section of an article with real sources in newspapers and magazines is not helpful. I realize that some of these sources need improvement. Blogs and internet gossip sites get their information from somewhere, usually the associated press, and the sources in the section which are (for now) less than ideal are eventually going to have to be replaced with better ones. Someone with a lot of time and energy will have to track down whatever these gossip people were reading when they wrote this stuff and put it on here instead.

Do a google search for "Fergie wets herself." It turns up ridiculous amounts of hits, chronicling the entire absurd saga in articles, interviews and photographs. Replace Fergie's name with Paris Hilton's, and you will find that the same is true. You will find several different sources detailing how she wet herself first while waiting in line at a restaurant opening (the name of the establishment is "Tao"), then while in a taxi cab in Hawaii. This information is out there.

The stuff with Jenny McCarthy on the Howard Stern show and the Playmates on Night Calls was broadcast on national radio programs, which are a sources all by themselves.

What your deletions boiled the section down to was a single fact without context. This article has come a long way as far as sourcing goes. I ask only that anyone who wants to help in that area do so not with an axe, but a scalpel. Of course anything about celebrities is going to be buried in these kinds of messy sources, but these kinds of placeholder references beat a bunch of unsourced tags. The goal should be to find the original information in their newspaper and magazine sources and document all the dates and numbers needed to make the references comprehensive. I will endeavor to find the issue number for the Heat interview. I would appreciate it if others would help out with the rest of the source work that needs to be done for this section, but just coming in and tearing it up is just not appreciated.

Thank you. -Fsecret (talk) 18:01, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * TL;DR 174.59.16.35 (talk) 21:21, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Original research and synthesis
Sources that are not talking about omarashi cannot be included in this article. Pulling articles that you think are related, but do not specifically mention this topic is original research and not allowed. 207.69.139.142 (talk) 02:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I apologize, please do not doubt my good faith. I was previously not aware of the rules regarding synthesis. -- Fsecret (talk) 23:19, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Omorashi (オモラシ / おもらし / お 漏らし?) Jest subkultury fetysz uznane głównie w Japonii, w której uczestnicy doświadczenia pobudzenia od posiadania pełnego pęcherza lub atrakcyjności seksualnej komuś przeżywa uczucie pełnego pęcherza. Poza Japonią, zwykle nie jest określone oddzielnie od Urofilia (fetysz moczu), choć jednak są to różne rzeczy. Zachodu, którzy czynią rozróżnienia często używać zwrotów takich jak "desperacja pęcherza" lub "panty zwilżania. Język japoński termin, od którego subkultury pochodzi nazwa oznacza "na mokro siebie", co dosłownie tłumaczone, "wyciek". Wyraz ten jest także czasem latynizacją jako "omorasi" w Kunrei-shiki latynizacji systemu.

Postawy wobec seksualności w mediach omorashi

Większość działań fetysz dotyczących wykorzystania odpadów ciała te uważane są przez społeczeństwo jako "hardcore" tabu lub edgeplay. [1] Jednakże, ponieważ przedmiot fetyszem jest ubrany moczu, wideo omorashi nie funkcji bezpośredniego kontaktu seksualnego. Koncentrować się na ubraniu, a nie otwarcie obrazów seksualnego sprawia, że fetyszyzm odzieży czołowych funkcji w większości erotyka omorashi: często opisywany obejmują te stroje noszone przez uczennice, kobiet zajmujących się zawodowo, i innych kobiet próbuje szukać godnego przed ulegając na potrzebę mokre siebie.

Yagai

Jedną ze zmian jest znany jako omorashi yagai, co tłumaczy się jako "mokry do siebie na zewnątrz (lub publicznie)." Dalszych zmian obejmuje yagai hōnyō, lub "na zewnątrz (lub publicznego) oddawanie moczu", w której przedmiotem publicznej odbiera im ubrania do oddania moczu. Inne yagai hōnyō praktyków działają podobnie jak artyści graffiti, próbując akty publiczne oddawanie moczu bez podlegania [2]. Pieluchy

Inny wariant gry omorashi jest omutsu omorashi mniej powszechnie nazywane oshime omorashi, które to przetłumaczyć jako "mokry sobie w pieluchę." Ta odmiana omutsu jest zasadniczo taki sam, jak normy omorashi, chyba że uczestnicy mają na sobie pieluchę, zamiast majtek. Pieluszki mogą być korzystne dla społeczeństwa, gdyż zwilżenie uczynić ją bardziej dyskretny i wyeliminować bałagan, a ich stosowanie nie jest ograniczone w szczególności do tych, z fetyszem pieluchę. Jednak fetyszystów omorashi szczególnie zainteresowani tym aspektem subkultury można uznać japońskie odmiany kochanka pieluchy community.Fetish mediów

Oprócz licznych usług fantasy, które choć fanów omorashi mogą żyć swoje pragnienia, różnych nośnikach fetysz istnieje dzięki którym mogą one doświadczyć zwilżania scenariuszy. Chociaż te oczywiście podać przykłady pełnowymiarową pornografii, miękki charakter rdzeń omorashi nadaje się równie dobrze do spektakli telewizyjnych, anime, ecchi, teleturnieje, oraz inne, bardziej społecznie akceptowalne formy rozrywki. [edytuj] Fetish Films Główny artykuł: Różowe tabletki

W latach po zakończeniu II wojny światowej, erotyzm był stopniowo podejmowania w japońskiej kinematografii. Pierwszy pocałunek, należy rozpatrywać w japońskich filmów dyskretnie pół ukryte umbrella-spowodowane krajowych sensacji w 1946 roku. [3] W 1940 i na początku 1950, nagość w japońskim kinie, jak w większości krajów świata, został tabu. [4] Obecnie, z zagranicznych filmów, takich jak Summer Ingmar Bergman z Monika (1953), Louis Malle's Les amants (1958), a Russ Meyer Immoral Mr Herbaty (1959) wprowadzenie kobieta nagość w międzynarodowych kina, seksualności w filmów był przywożony do Japonii bez problemu. [4] Niemniej jednak, aż do początku lat 1960, graficznych obrazów nagości i seksu w języku japońskim film mógłby być postrzegane tylko w jednym zwoju "filmów jelenia", wykonane nielegalnie przez podziemne producentów filmowych, takich jak przedstawiona w filmie reżysera jest Pornographers (1966) [5].

To właśnie podczas tego okresu z początku lat sześćdziesiątych, że pierwsza fala film Pink rozpoczęła. Nagość i płeć oficjalnie wszedł japoński kina z kontrowersyjnych i popularnych niezależnych produkcji Satoru Kobayashi's Flesh Market (Nikutai nie Ichiba, 1962), który uważany jest za pierwszego prawdziwego różowe film [6]. "Made for 8 milionów jenów, niezależny film Kobayashi jest cechą miała ponad 100 milionów jenów.

Popularność filmów Pink nadal rosła, i na początku 1970, płci i seksualności znalazły drogę do nawet najbardziej powszechnej japońskie filmy. Tak bardzo bowiem, że wiele poważnych studiów będzie zmuszony powołać się na takich filmach, aby zapobiec utracie teatralnej publiczności. Z dostępu do większej produkcji, wartości i talenty, niektóre z tych filmów stała się krytyczna i popularnych sukcesów [7].

W celu uniknięcia surowe prawo Japonia cenzury, która do rzeczywistych obrazów seksu i włosów łonowych, tych filmów często powołuje się na elementach, które mogłyby fetysz spódnica takich ograniczeń. Jednym z takich filmów, przerażająca Girls 'High School: Lynch Law Classroom w 1973 roku, będzie pierwszym dla zobrazowania sytuacji omorashi do teatralnej publiczności.

Jak AV (video dla dorosłych) gatunek chwycił w 1980, wideo poświęcona właśnie omorashi zaczął się pojawić. Kilka znanych idoli AV nie wystąpił w takich scenariuszy, w tym Sakura Sakurada. Jednakże, być może ze względu na jej charakter softcore, nigdy omorashi został zdegradowany do taryfy wyłącznie pornograficznych.

Gra przedstawia

Dzisiaj, japońscy fani omorashi również korzystać teleturnieje, w którym zawodnicy muszą konkurować w różnych moczu gospodarstwa wyzwania [8]. Giga [9] firma wideo "Desperation turnieju serii jest przykładem tego rodzaju konkursie. Jednym z takich działań było panelu zawodnicy konkurują ze sobą na przeprowadzenie swoich pęcherzy lub zgadywać który kobieta musi korzystać z ubikacja.

Anime i manga W osobnym artykule: Lista anime i mangi featuring omorashi

Japoński produkowane mediów omorashi także komiksów i animacji. Są to zarówno samodzielnie produkowane Dōjinshi dużych produkowany mangi. Niektóre skupiają się wyłącznie na historii omorashi, podczas gdy inne zawierają jedynie sporadyczne sceny. Niektóre zawierają oczywiste tematyki erotycznej i może być traktowane jako forma manga h, podczas gdy inne, jak Iinari! Aibure-shon znane są jako all-ages komiksy, wyposażony jedynie łagodne ecchi treści, takie jak panchira [10]. Zwilżania sceny istniały w anime już popularne Devilman z 1970 roku. Jednak te nie mają erotycznej kontekście, który charakteryzuje nowoczesne media omorashi, ponieważ miało miejsce przed pierwszą pełnowymiarową anime pornografii, który nie był dostępny do 1984 roku, kiedy z nadejściem pierwszych Ovas anime O takich jak Anime Lolita Wonder Kids 'zostały możliwe dzięki powszechnej dostępności home video. Jednym z przykładów tym kontekście później erotyczny jest 1994 H anime OVA Vixens, które funkcje sceny moczu w ustalaniu, które jawnie seksualnej. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.89.173.162 (talk) 21:20, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Is half this stuff even true?
Some of this seems a little farfetched to me. It's clear people have the fetish, but I think whoever wrote this article wrote it to indulge his fetish or cater up a fetish group. Besides, I bet if someone looked at the resources or translated the japanese text, they'd turn out to be fake. I hear people sometimes tell made-up stories about it, either in public or online, that are completely made up yet they want everyone to think they're true... why I don't know, especially since half of the people telling the stories are female. (I can tell when they're made up, but I'm not CIA or anything like that) Enferloup (talk) 23:34, 8 April 2011 (UTC)


 * And there's more. I recently looked up Giga on wikipedia, and from the sound of things it's a gaming company (as in video games), which also does visual novels. There's nothing on Giga's wikipedia article about gameshows or about Omorashi, and I already heard someone say the resource's Japanese translation didn't check out. Of course, I could be wrong, but still it's something to think about. Enferloup (talk) 04:12, 6 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Omorashi is indeed very real, and has a lot more popularity in the west then you may think. There are entire websites devoted to Omorashi, such as AnimePee.me. It is an American site that is centralized entirely around Omorashi, with a member base of nearly 3,000 people, and over 20,000 posts. The site shares images, videos, fiction, and real life experiences all centralized around Omorashi, and is clearly referenced to as Omorashi. Though this may not be considered an entirely valid reference, there's even definitions of it listed on UrbanDictionary. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Omorashi

Just wanted to let you all know, there's omorashi.org out there, big reference. I have to admit that I am slightly obsessed with omorashi, and thus can prove, yes, it is real! -75.146.106.69 (talk) 01:50, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to be straightforward here. I have seen three of the GIGA Desperation Tournament videos in whole or partial form. I know that this does not help or constitute a case for inclusion in the article; I'm just letting editors know informally so those infected with morbid curiosity can seek reliable sources if they desire without doubting the initial existence of the content. I do not know the full name of the company; this is a common occurrence in Western culture concerning Japanese companies and franchise names, particularly regarding more obscure or taboo topics. GIGA is far from the only example one could note; for all I know it is out of business and has been for a long time, and no one who's interested even knows or remembers what the organization was called (as its full name) to begin with. I would not be surprised if there are in fact several other Japanese companies commonly referred to in some community or other as simply "Giga". If I may venture to speculate, the reason that the GIGA videos were mentioned here at all is that they're something of an obsession...they're reputed to be excellent and are next to unobtainable. I came across a few other videos by the same organization seemingly in my search for the aforementioned videos, one of which was scatological in nature, indicating that Giga had produced some variety of fetishistic content. I don't know what the company really is or who is behind it, and no one else seems to know in the looking around I've done. Probably some of the videos were leaked once by someone in Japan and managed to catch a bit of attention but not enough for reliable access to the pirated files, then it caught on in a memetic nature amongst the scattered pockets of undinists, omorashi enthusiasts and urolagniacs, and that was the end of that. I can attest that the obsession can be magnetic and that the search can become a time-waster above and beyond the normal level of obsession of any given paraphile who hears about it. Falls right in the difficulty zone that appeals to a lot of file hunters, I guess. So, for the overall quality of the article, it would probably be easier to just find some Japanese articles about the fetish or omorashi in the Japanese pornography industry in general, and include whatever companies or products those companies may list, if relevant. If memory serves, there are at least a few more well-documented ones which serve omorashi content solely, mostly, or at least as a major component. That said, if anyone ever just feels like testing their internet mettle in legally dubious ways and sifting through lots and lots of webpages containing content and discussion they will likely find repulsive, and myriads of dead end request threads and dead links...all for no reward they would be likely to find satisfying...GIGA Desperation Tournament is a sort of as-of-yet unwinnable (as far as I know) "Gotta catch em all" of omorashi. There are even some instances of one "issue" being mislabeled as another, so you think you found two but actually found one. Late apologies if this is too rambling or written in a style inappropriate for wiki pages (though I pray to anything that may be listening that wiki talk pages have not become a 'safe space' with their own censorship or style guides) 172.111.133.30 (talk) 06:18, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 6 one external links on Omorashi. Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.wetset.net/photoset/Photoset_hod_84.htm
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://wetset.net/photoset/Photoset_85.htm
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://wetset.net/photoset/Photoset_86.htm
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.wetset.net/photoset/Photoset_hod_87.htm
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://wetset.net/photoset/Photoset_88.htm
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://wetset.net/photoset/Photoset_89.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 10:33, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Dubious
How was this phenomenon described by Europeans before 1600 if no one knew that Japan even existed at the time? Joe Vorilong (talk) 17:11, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Could you point at the section in the article that says this? ~ RobTalk 17:20, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

First paragraph is a mess
It keeps jumping back and forth between etymological stuff (what the word means, how it is spelled in Japanese, etc.) and facts about the actual fetish. These two concerns should be split into separate paragraphs. 2A00:23C5:FE0C:2100:7945:6387:B4F1:3559 (talk) 04:45, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Trouble with drawing a clear distinction between omorashi, urolagnia, desperation and wetting.
Hi. Let me preface this discussion by saying that I'm not anti-omo, nor am I calling into question its existence, relevance or importance. "Omorashi" is a common-used term, if not one of the more dominant terms used with relation to kinks around pee desperation and/or wetting.

However, I do feel like there are some parts of how we define "omorashi" that are dubious, vague, or inconsistent with other facts, and I'm hoping we can talk about that a little bit so that maybe we can drill down to the essence of what omo is (and hopefully continue to improve the article for everybody to learn from). Here are some things that bother me:

- This article defines omorashi as "a fetish subculture [...] in which participants experience arousal from having a full bladder or wetting themselves, wearing a diaper, or from seeing someone else experiencing a full bladder or wetting themselves.", but is omo truly a separate fetish from "desperation" and "wetting" fetishes? Or is omo simply the Japanese term for the combined [urolagnia subgenres] of "desperation" + "wetting"? What's the exact delineation here? Where do we draw the line?

- Second, this article (and others too) describe omorashi as "originating and [being] predominately recognized in Japan". No doubt Omorashi is a Japanese word, and no doubt it describes a fetish subculture involving pee desperation and/or wetting. But does that imply that desperation and wetting fetishes originated in Japan in general? Or are we just trying to say that the word "omorashi", used to describe these fetishes, originated in Japan? Certainly desperation and wetting fetish content is not uniquely Japanese and also has been a part of western society for much longer than "omorashi" has been a common loan-word in the English-speaking world, so it might be worth clarifying that the Japanese-invention is not the act it self but the "omorashi" label.

- Third, in the section "Japanese subcultures" we have other things like "yagai", "omutsu", etc. But again, many of these are simply Japanese-language labels for things that have corresponding English-language counterparts like "public wetting", "diaper fetish", and so on.

- Fourth, there's a line in this article that says "Though there is a small community devoted to such fetishism outside Japan, it is usually overshadowed by the more hardcore fetishes, urolagnia and urophagia". But, is that true? Do we have evidence to suggest that omo is relatively more popular in Japan than desperation/wetting fetishes are in "the west" or even the rest of the world?

- Fifth, there's another line that says "because of the western stigma in numerous countries against urine, omorashi subculture has not received such diverse exposure in non-Japanese media". But is this meaning to imply that there is no/little stigma against urine or omorashi fetish in Japan?

Anyway... I'm not trying to erase omo! But I do feel that sometimes our definitions and delineations can be awfully vague and culturally relativist, maybe even verging on "orientalism". What do you all think? FuwaFuwaDL (talk) 21:30, 1 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Here's how I've decided to tackle this in the diaper fetish article:
 * "The Japanese-language term omorashi (オモラシ / おもらし / お漏らし), which means "to wet oneself", has become a common colloquial term for the sub-genre of urolagnia involving the need to urinate, urinary desperation, and potentially wetting ones clothes or bed. While sexual interests in urine, desperation and incontinence are not new or exclusively Japanese, the categorization of "omorashi" as a specific fetish sub-culture in Japan has allowed the term to gain global recognition and predominance in the kink space."
 * I think that's pretty clear and accurate, so I wonder what you all think about using something similar here? FuwaFuwaDL (talk) 00:28, 9 May 2023 (UTC)