Talk:Once Upon a Time season 4/Archive 2

Just a note
Since someone came in trying to change the character values to make smash the mirror one episode, here is a source where Adam confirms that it is indead 2 episodes: https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/543100188751982592 -- Ditto51 ( My Talk Page ) 11:31, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Operation Mongoose episode page
When it comes to the episode, should we make two separate pages or put them both onto one page?-- Ditto51 ( My Talk Page ) 12:06, 30 March 2015 (UTC) As it seems the two episodes will air the same night as a big finale. I think one page for both would be fine like "Smash the Mirror". I just hope we won't have the one episode/two episodes issue we had with "Smash the Mirror" from some editors. TeamGale (talk) 05:41, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not opposed to making it one page if both episodes play consecutively like Smash the Mirror did. However, I wouldn't mind hearing a few more opinions. If we do make it one page there is the question of whether we should simply convert the current page to an episode page and add a hatnote linking to the Cuban Project page or if we should just create a new page with (Once Upon a Time) at the end of the title and put a hatnote on the Cuban Project page that links to it. Amducker (talk) 02:17, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and created the page for Operation Mongoose as a redirect to the Season 4 page. If the community wants to break it up into two pages when it airs it is an option, although it's probably better to keep it as one page since it worked for Smash the Mirror. Looking at the Cuban Project page again, it was my opinion that the Operation Mongoose page that redirected to it was best left as is. Amducker (talk) 04:23, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Live+7 numbers
Is anyone planning on updating this area? I would do it myself but the page is protected until June unfortunately. 86.15.195.205 (talk) 18:40, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * You can provide us with the reliable sources that you were going to use, if you want it updated. Or create an account on Wikipedia, and wait until you're autoconfirmed, so you can add the required edits. Alex &#124; The &#124; Whovian  01:07, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Thankyou for the kind advice. As you can see, I was just wondering why no one was updating the numbers reported by TVbythenumbers for a while now that's all. It wasn't a case of want. That table is looking awfully empty for 4b.86.15.195.205 (talk) 20:03, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Season 4 DVD
There is news about the DVD including the cover art. The Image should be changed and the color of the season template too. source: http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Time-Season-4/21086

79.181.9.151 (talk) 16:00, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 May 2015
Good evening! If possible, under the US Live Ratings for season 4, could you change the Weekly 18-49 rating from NA to 22. Here is the source confirming that information:

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/04/28/tv-ratings-broadcast-top-25-bruce-jenner-the-interview-tops-adults-18-49-total-viewers-for-the-week-ending-april-26-2015/395009/

Thank you very much!

Scottoc (talk) 02:02, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

✅ TeamGale (talk) 02:26, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Smash the Mirror and Season 5
Before people jump in and begin to revert, I suggest you come over to the season five page to see why this has been done. Horowitz has been referring to the 100th episode as something special, but because of the way in which the episodes are labeled here, it didn't quite line up with what he was saying as the production team considered Smash the Mirror as one episode. If you object then can you also provide a way of working around this on the season 5 page as well please.


 * And before anyone even thinks of reverting these changes, keep in mind the co-creator, Adam Horowitz, of the series called the matter "semantics". LLArrow (talk) 19:10, 17 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Also, because of the confusion, I don't think the flag on the episode's description is necessary. Even if the producers consider it one episode, it was still made as two, so the double-length episode description seems entirely reasonable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.93.5.131 (talk) 17:02, 24 October 2015 (UTC)


 * No, actually it's quite warranted. No matter the length of the episode(s), the summary is in need of some extensive tightening. LLArrow (talk) 18:20, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Summaries should be a maximum of 200 words for a single episode, so if you make that 400 words for a double-episode, it's still over the limit - it's currently over 700 words. Alex &#124; The &#124; Whovian  00:47, 25 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Which is different. I saw it and assumed it was for being double length, but actually being over double length is a different story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.93.5.132 (talk) 14:56, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Can we please go back to the way it was? The 100th episode shot WILL be something special; however, it's going to be the 101st episode AIRED. It's really not that complicated, and doesn't warrant the erroneous and confusing reversion (which completely throws off the actual episode count of Season 4 as presented on both Netflix, ABC.Com, and the DVDs) of something that had already been agreed upon and solved to everyone's satisfaction.DigificWriter (talk) 18:39, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * No, unless you can provide reliable sources that go against the obvious consensus that has been developed in this discussion. Alex &#124; The &#124; Whovian  18:44, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * We already had this conversation, and sources were already provided previously.DigificWriter (talk) 18:46, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * And yet, the clear and solid consensus is still to display Season 4 to have contained 22 episodes. Alex &#124; The &#124; Whovian  18:47, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Why are we re-litigating something that had already been unequivocally proven to be correct? ABC.Com, Netflix, Adam and Eddy's own previous statements, and a myriad of other sources demonstrate that Season 4 contains 23 episodes, and yet it's suddenly been decided to throw all of that away and erroneously list the season as having 22 episodes? That doesn't make any sense.DigificWriter (talk) 18:50, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Do not resort to attacks on the editors who have contributed towards this consensus. (Concerning the quote of "I thought everybody was smarter than that" before you changed it.) Please read the discussion between multiple users before forcing your edits. Alex &#124; The &#124; Whovian  18:53, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I realized that the last part of my comment was out of line... hence the edit. That doesn't change the fact, however, that this had already been resolved satisfactorily last year, and yet has now suddenly been reversed in spite of what had already previously been determined and agreed to be factually correct.DigificWriter (talk) 18:57, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Consensuses change with new source and new information, as per this case. If you think it's up for discussion again, start another new discussion or take it to the previous one. Alex &#124; The &#124; Whovian 19:02, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Why was it decided to suddenly give Adam and Eddy's word on things - when we already know why they see things as they do, as per the previous discussion - precedence over ABC.Com, Netflix, the official Season 4 DVDs, previous statements from themselves and from Jane Espenson and others, and myriad other sources?DigificWriter (talk) 19:09, 5 November 2015 (UTC)


 * DigificWriter, stop pursuing a dead cause. This matter has been decided upon and no one else sees your point of view. Do not commence edit warring or you will be reported to the administrators. LLArrow (talk) 20:35, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Since when does concensus get to override fact?DigificWriter (talk) 23:05, 5 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Since never. The facts have already been stated. Adam Horowitz, the co-creator of the series, has stated that 512 is the 100th episode of the series on Twitter. End of discussion. P.S. you misspelled consensus. LLArrow (talk) 00:19, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * We've known for a year-plus why such is the case. That doesn't change the fact that Season 4 has 23 episodes.DigificWriter (talk) 00:34, 6 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Yeah well, good luck with that. LLArrow (talk) 04:33, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * You're really going to make me post the evidence again? Fine, I will.DigificWriter (talk) 05:15, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Season 4 has 23 episodes
Even though this had already been well-established and resolved, I'm apparently having to make the case for it AGAIN, so here's the empirical evidence proving that Season 4 has 23 episodes: 1) http://abc.go.com/shows/once-upon-a-time/episode-guide/season-04 2) http://www.amazon.com/Once-Upon-Time-Season-DVD/dp/B00X797M9I (pay attention to the official synopsis) 3) http://tvline.com/2014/10/23/once-upon-a-time-greys-anatomy-more-episodes-abc-schedule/ 4) https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/525310605628940288 DigificWriter (talk) 05:27, 6 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Might as well dignify this useless use of time, with an assured response. Horowitz's tweets clarifying 512 as the 100th episode,, . LLArrow (talk) 06:30, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Please remain civil during discussions. Alex &#124; The &#124; Whovian  06:33, 6 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Is it worth mentioning that all of the recent casting news for the 100th episode from the usual entertainment websites are all calling it the 100th episode too? Like this one on Entertainment Weekly for Giancarlo Esposito/Sidney Glass returning. 86.15.195.121 (talk) 12:52, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Souls of the Departed is the 100th episode FILMED, but will be the 101st episode AIRED. We've known this and why it is so for nearly a year. To suddenly decide that tweets from Adam that don't actually change anything whatsoever regarding what we have known for nearly a year override everything else makes absolutely no sense and renders this article factually useless and completely inaccurate.DigificWriter (talk) 03:12, 9 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Well if that opinion gains consensus, then the change can be implemented. As of now you are the only person on the planet, it seems, that holds said opinion, including the creators of the series. Good luck. LLArrow (talk) 04:01, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * It's not an opinion that Season 4 contains 23 episodes; it's a documented fact, and yet a consensus vote has made it so that said fact is being ignored for no apparent reason.DigificWriter (talk) 07:27, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

You must be incapable of understanding the reasoning behind the decision, that has been clearly detailed in this conversation, the one on the season 5 talk page, and by the creator of the show. It is semantics, you should look the word up, because it seems you don't understand the definition. LLArrow (talk) 17:56, 9 November 2015 (UTC)


 * But facts and opinions are constantly changing when new evidence comes to light, or when something is discovered. Just because something was accepted a year ago, doesn't mean it'll be accepted today on the same basis. Take Smash the Mirror, it was concieved as one episode and had one production code, just because ABC wanted it extended doesn't mean it deserves to have two seperate episode numbers. Especially when the co creator himself and lots of entertainment websites are calling Souls of the Departed the 100th episode. 86.15.195.121 (talk) 00:03, 10 November 2015 (UTC)


 * My sockpuppetry senses are tingling... LLArrow (talk) 01:00, 10 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Really? Because I wasn't agreeing with him, I was answering his post aimed at me. You placed it under yours and wrote that which is odd. You're welcome to think what you like regardless, my edits and his are nothing alike, and I use Wikipedia to add ratings + update episode info on various pages. There was also a reason why I didn't do that ":" thing. I was using a bit of etiquette and wrote that reply in the hope he would answer underneath me. 86.15.195.121 (talk) 01:42, 10 November 2015 (UTC)