Talk:Ontario/Archive 1

Maps
Can we get proper maps? somthing for "northern" ontario, then something seprate for "southern" ontario? the current map is crowded, and... well, ugly. Pellaken 12:52, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Sorry about that, it's temporary. Earl Andrew 21:21, 3 March 2004 (UTC)

Time zones
I added EDT (UTC -4) to the time zones. Is that inconsistent? --Big_Iron 10:59, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes. Reference to UTC -4 removed.  Snickerdo 05:49, 23 December 2004 (UTC)

-- If u look at the bottom part of ontario with your head tilted to the left (west :P) it looks like an elephant hamilton being the armpit :/

Yes, and who would like to live in Owen Sound!

Demographics questions
A couple of questions regarding the Demographics section:

In the summary of Ontario's demographic breakdown, "Native American" is listed as an ethnic group. Is this term to be understood as being synonymous with First Nations?

Also, might there be a more appropriate term than "Latino American"? It sounds to my ears like "Latino, and also American (in the sense of U.S.A.)." There must be better options, such as dropping the "o" to make it read "Latin American" which would emphasize people in this group being "of the Americas" (to include Canada, Guatemala, the U.S.A., etc.). Alternatively, have the terms "Latino Canadian" or "Hispanic Canadian" achieved any currency? Those seem yet more accurate.

Being neither Native nor Latino nor Canadian, I've refrained from editing the article so as to avoid stepping on toes, but don't there exist agreed-upon, less misleading/offensive terms for the many Canadian demographic groups? Joshers 08:14, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I have changed "Native American" to "Aboriginal", and "Latino American" to "Latin-American". Ground Zero | t 21:34, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Also, Black is not an ethnic origin. It is either African decent, or if a further differentiation is whished, African, Caribbean, etc. In this context, it would be better to stay away from political labels as black is. --Txwikinger 23:20, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The New Ontario


I think a divided Ontario is a good idea. What does anyone else think? Dhastings 03:49, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * First of all, if Ontario was to be divided, the capital of the Eastern Ontario province would be Ottawa, not Kingston. 60% of everyone in the East lives in Ottawa. Ottawa has 9 times the population of Kingston. Why did you think of Kingston? And also, Hastings, Prince Edward and Lennox-Addington counties are almost always considered Central Ontario.


 * To define Eastern Ontario, draw a line segment heading north, 90 degrees from the easternmost point on Amherst Island, that starts at the US border and continues straight until Sharbot Lake, at which point it changes direction so that is moves 45 degrees (in the northwestern direction) until reaching the Ottawa River. The reason why the line is usually bent in a northwestern direction is so that the line can pass west of Pembroke. There. Everything east of that line within Ontario is Eastern Ontario.


 * Also, Ontario is not likely to be split up. The only parts of Ontario that are even remotely likely to become seperate provinces are Northern Ontario and perhaps Ottawa (some want a seperate national capital region like the US). Although some have proposed that Toronto become a province, such an idea is usually proposed in a tongue-in-cheek manner. But there is near-zero support for a the Southwest or Central Ontario to form seperate provinces. Also, to refer to the part of Ontario just northwest of Toronto as "Western Ontario" is misleading, as Thunder Bay (which is in Ontario, as I'm sure you know) is over 700 km west of Owen Sound (Thunder Bay is even further west than Windsor). The Ontario-Manitoba Border is much, much, much more west than the "western" area labelled on that map. --216.106.110.239 00:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Dividing Ontario may or may not be a good idea, but it would almost be impossible to acheive. In order to change the constitution you would have to get the other provinces to agree.  The new provinces would get their own senators thus giving what was once Ontario more power on the federal level.  I don't think the other provinces would be very enthusiastic about that.  It would also screw up things like equalization and create a controversy no federal politician would want to get stuck in.  From the financial perspective, it would cost more to pay for six lieutenant governors, primiers, legislatures, and the buildings required to house these governments. --Lesouris 07:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

What the hell does any of this have to do with anything factual for an encyclopedic article? Camcurwood (talk) 04:22, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Ditto what Camcurwood said.Matt Leeck (talk) 06:21, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Official Language
Can someone please link a document that shows Ontario's official language, I wasn't even aware we had one.


 * I think saying that french has some legal status is an understatement. I think Ontario is only English (as Newfoundland is bilingual (officially)), there is sill a lot of regions that are french, and English, so maybe a rephrase? paat 20:09, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * True, while there are many heavy francophone areas in Ontario, just because the majority of citizens speak french, it does not give it any additional legal status, just like there are anglophone communities in Quebec, but Quebec's official language is still French only. but according to This there are no official languages, but english is the dominant. Also, its New Brunswick thats Bilingual, not Newfoundland


 * Oops i knew it was sumwhere in the maritimes. But i was just saying that stating that the french had just some legal status, wouldn't be what it should be (maybe just has a legal status. I know ottawa is now bilangual, and its starting to be sumthing in other cities too, little and a little more paat 01:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

hmm, I was under the impression that Ottawa is only bilingual because it is the capital of a bilingual nation. but continuing on, if we just wrote French has legal status, it would confuse many people who would mistake legal with official. plus, according to the link I posted above, there is no official language and English is de facto. if that is true than nothing should be written under official language.


 * Ottawa is bilingual also because of its proximity to Gatineau and having francophones being 1/5th-1/4 of the population.Dan Carkner 16:26, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Ontario is not an officially bilingual province. The only bilingual province is New Brunswick (see the Constitution of 1982). For more information on the legal status of French in Ontario, see the 1986 French Language Services Act and the summary site. Pour plusier information, regardez le Loi sur les services en français de Ontario (1986) et l'attendant site d'explication. Cleduc 21:23, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I think that Ontario's official language is De Facto English. I looked all over the Ontario Government website (ironically provided in French and English) and it seems to provide no information at all regarding Official Languages. However in Ontario, French does have some legal status for the following reasons:


 * The Ontario Provincial Legislature is required by Law to operate in both English and French.
 * Unlike most provinces, Ontario requires their bills to be both in French and English.
 * Most Ontario Agencies have French equivelents, serving over 23 regions.
 * Ontario's website also provides a French equivelent (excluding Quebec, only Manitoba and New Brunswick also operate Official French websites).

I'm trying to say is, right now Ontario has no official language, although it's de facto one would be English. However, if Ontario ever did adopt an official language it would probably be both English and French. CuffX 04:43, 03 May 2007 (UTC)

This, on the Ontario Government's webite: http://www.gov.on.ca/ont/portal/!ut/p/.cmd/cs/.ce/7_0_A/.s/7_0_252/_s.7_0_A/7_0_252/_l/en?docid=004564 says 'English is Ontario's official language, although French language rights have been extended to the legal and educational systems" so where do people get the concept "Ontario has no official language" or "Ontario's official language is De Facto English. I looked all over the Ontario Government website"? Cleduc above was correct..  Camcurwood (talk) 04:27, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Looking at Ontario's homepage http://www.ontario.ca/ English and French seem to be quite equal. Aaker (talk) 12:32, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

John Darnielle & Trivia
I removed the reference to John Darnielle and the Trivia section as it is nn.--J2000ca 23:26, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

See http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ca_on_fr.html http://www.hrma-agrh.gc.ca/ollo/aud-ver/province_e.asp http://www.ocol-clo.gc.ca/archives/articles/2005/anniversary_ontario_anniversaire_e.htm http://www.woodland-centre.on.ca/languages.html

New logo
Someone should probably update the provincial logo with the new one. — ceejayoz talk 18:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Land
It is stated in the introduction that "Ontario is the most populous and second-largest in area of Canada's ten provinces." However, further down the article in the grey box, Ontario is ranked as 5th overall in area. (B.C.'s article also claims 5th overall). If this holds true, Ontario would be third overall. I'm no statistician, so I wouldn't know how total area is calculated, but I do think either the introduction should be reworded, or the correct ranking be used in the box. Doing so would solve to maintain the article's integrity.--Petro 56 20:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC) Petro_56

The introduction states that Ontario is the 2nd largest in area and references the 1st reference at the end of the page. This reference (http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/phys01.htm) states that the province is at most the 4th largest in either total area or land area (i.e. area excluding water area). Therefore the fact listed in the introduction is a misrepresentation of the reference used. 65.27.149.63 05:00, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Climate
hm, I don't know if sandbanks represents the climate of ontario, why not show some farmland? far more representative I think.. Dan Carkner 16:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps a winter scene should also be shown - Ontario is not the Bahamas AlexiusHoratius 01:51, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Ottawa-Montreal?
"Ottawa is the national capital, and being next to Montreal, it forms one of the largest metropolitan areas in Canada."

Perhaps this is supposed to refer to Ottawa as being next to Gatineau (which together forms the National Capital Region (a census recognized metropolitan area)? Ottawa is not next to Montreal, and the two cities certainly do not form a metropolitan area. Perhaps maybe this is in reference to its ranking in size? Either way, I think we should find a less ambiguous way of wording this. Gsmit011 20:10, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Pauline Johnson
I've requested a peer review for this article. If you're interested in giving some feedback, click here. Thanks, Bobanny 00:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Francophonie
Why does the Ontario page display Francophonie?--J2000ca 03:46, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Removed navbox. --Qyd 21:09, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

When I visited Western Ontario a few years back, I found it unexpectedly Francophone. Most people were in fact bilingual, but it seemed as if French was their hearth language while English was something to speak outside the home in more formal settings. My struggles to recall high school French really seemed to relax them, no matter how stressful it was for me!

Especially, out in the far boonies there were lots of people of mixed French-Indian blood. How much has really happened out there since the Voyageurs came through and fathered children by Indian women?

Although I don't question the statistic that Francophones are a relatively small minority percentage-wise, I suspect they inhabit more of Ontario's land area than English speakers. LADave 12:14, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh dear. Well, http://www.ofa.gov.on.ca/english/stats/general2005-h.html says: "In absolute numbers, Eastern Ontario accounts for 41.3% of Ontario's Francophone population; Central Ontario accounts for 25.6%, and Northeastern Ontario accounts for 25.2%. Southwestern Ontario accounts for 6.3% of Ontario's Francophone population and Northwestern Ontario accounts for 1.6%" so in your wanderings into "Western Ontario" you must have found the 10 people that speak French. I am pretty sure the Voyaguers kids are dead now, and their offspring have been influenced by 300 years of English. :S Joking aside, we'll ignore the comment about 5% of Ontarions inhabiting more land than 80% of others. Many areas ARE very Francophone but, as the stats above confirm, they are in the east and north-east - Chochrane, Timmins, Ottawa, Cornwall. Camcurwood (talk) 04:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Ottawa CMA
It seems a little unfair that Gatineau is not included in the population figure for Ottawa's CMA. It includes 226,296 additional residents, most of whom live within a few kilometers from Ottawa. Although it is not part of Ontario, it makes Ottawa's metropolitan area seem about 25% smaller than it actually is. --70.81.251.32 03:39, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Economy
As of 08 August 2007 a couple of questionable claims (and not backed up) are mentioned in the 'economy' section. Moreover, these two claims seem to contradict one another! The first claims that "some" economists blame NAFTA for a decline in manufacturing (they should be listed, but I think better would be to drop this claim as Mexico is not an automobile-manufacturing powerhouse - is it?); the second blames China and India for this same phenomenon (and, more vaguely, "globalization"). NAFTA, if anything, would tend to build up the North American region's resilience against outcompetition by China or India. If anyone knows more about this than I do, I suggest he/she update the article appropriately. Dmhaglund 12:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that Mexico is very big in the auto industry. Didn't GM move a whole bunch of plants down there recently to capitalize on their low wage rates and lack of a unionized labour force? Also NAFTA was heavily criticized for its impact to the manufacturing sector. I think it is very relevant, however I don't have any sources to back this up (sorry). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.245.177.172 (talk) 13:27, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Manufacturing output has actually been going up but now it's more capital and less labour. We are very productive right now. Canadian auto plants are some of the most productive in North America, more so than the Mexican ones too. We have been losing manufacturing jobs because of increase output but also because of cheap goods from China. Warrior1867 (talk) 21:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

It is claimed that Ontario Power Generation produces over 85% of the power for the providence. According to Bruce Power (http://www.brucepower.com/pagecontent.aspx?navuid=1) they source more then 20% of the electricity for Ontario. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.131.120.199 (talk) 03:38, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Ontario in Popular Culture
I don't think this section of the article is relevant at all. It gives one example of Ontario mentioned in a song and then a small list of a few famous people from Ontario. I've checked the articles for other provinces and states and nothing like this is included. If no one has any objections, I will remove it soon. --Lesouris 06:10, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I've removed this section. --Lesouris 07:24, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

OK, I object. I thought that was an interesting section. Let other geographical areas include their famous artists. Musicbones 23:29, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * My problem though is that it is "Ontario in Popular Culture" not "Famous People From Ontario". A lot of famous people are from Ontario, but that doesn't mean Ontario is represented in their work.  I think the whole "Famous People From..." is better suited for articles about cities and towns.  I would say only include this section if you can define a general perception of Ontario in pop culture, not just a few lyrics and a list of famous people. --Lesouris (talk) 03:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed. There are some people who are so, um, sheltered, that they think a lyric mentioning their city or town is noteworthy, when, uh, it's not. Camcurwood (talk) 04:50, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I think it might be note worthy to add up and coming Ontario artist David Vida, although based out of Los Angeles, they are recognized within counter culture circles of the Punk and Anti-Folk variety. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.171.1.97 (talk) 09:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

IPA
That IPA pronunciation can't possibly be right. For one thing, I think it's using a trilled r. For another, is that really how the "air" sound is transcribed? Number3Pencils (talk) 19:42, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Historical Importance
This appears in the section History 1896 to Present: "The sale and consumption of liquor, wine, and beer are still controlled by some of the most extreme laws in North America to ensure that strict community standards and revenue generation from the alcohol retail monopoly are upheld. In April 2007, Ontario Member of Provincial Parliament Kim Craitor suggested that local brewers should be able to sell their beer in local corner stores, however, the motion was quickly rejected by Premier Dalton McGuinty." Is this a) historical b) important c) written by Kim Craitor d) an opinion? Believe me, I am all for the loosening of alcohol laws in Ontario but I don't see how this is at all important, or maybe even true (there are many dry counties in the U.S. for example). Camcurwood (talk) 04:57, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

small NPOV edit in niagara falls box
hi folks, i just made a small edit to the box with the picture of niagara falls which stated that it is a major source of 'clean hydroelectric energy'. the inclusion of this word is problematic in two ways: first it assumes and implies that hydroelectric energy has a neutral environmental impact. secondly, it places a value judgement on the existence of the hydro facilities at niagara falls when merely stating the fact of said facilities existence (and that it supplies energy) should be the goal of a wikipedia article. therefore i edited the box to read that niagara falls is a major source of 'hydroelectric energy' (sans 'clean'). sincerely, 99.233.145.194 (talk) 03:26, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

"World's Busiest Highway"
As of 08 August 2007, the 401 was claimed to be the "world's busiest highway" in at least two sentences. Two references are provided, but neither actually back up this claim. The first says it is "among the world's busiest highways", which I believe. The second comes from the Toronto Sun (bias?) and says it is "probably" the busiest in the world, which I don't believe.

It's a big highway by Canadian standards, yeah, but the GTA has only some 5,000,000 people - comparing that with cities like Mexico City, Tokyo, New York City, or Jakarta - all of which have many more people and some of which have much worse infrastructure - I think this claim should be dropped. I am therefore changing the claim to "one of the busiest highways in the world," which is surely more accurate and maintains the point - that it's a busy highway! Dmhaglund 13:11, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * '''9 million people in the horseshoe area. the land area covered by that area is similar to the large metro cities you are comparing it to.

Well the GTA comment is irrelevant since a) most of the 401 is nowhere near the GTA and b) "only" 5 million is still freaking big compared to most of the world. However, sit between Brockville and Cornwall and tell me its busy... you can't. It *IS* busy in many places, but as you mention, the 'world's busiest' is an unrealistic claim. Camcurwood (talk) 04:47, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I think this claim is dubious, too. The sources cited have an interest in promoting the region, and Canadians have a seemingly insatiable desire to promote every aspect of their country on Wikipedia (e.g. "busiest this", the "second biggest" that, or the third biggest that, all with dubious citations).  According to the article, there's 8.1 million people in the Golden Horseshoe.  If it were in the US and a metro area, it would be fourth, between Chicago and Dallas/Fort Worth.  (It would also be further behind LA and Chicago if the US defined Metropolitan Statistical Areas in the same way that this vast Golden Horseshoe region is defined, because San Diego is contiguous with LA and Milwaukee is contiguous with Chicago).


 * I mention this only to make my point about Highway 401: I have a hard time believing that the transportation kommisars in New York and Los Angelas and Chicago are all so much more talented than the ones in Toronto (in that they were able to avoid the apparent congestion that just seems to be plaguing Toronto).  Is Toronto congested compared to LA?  Does anyone really think that more people commute to downtown Toronto than downtown Chicago?  Either someone is measuring the same thing in different ways or this is nothing more than another empty boast. --Antigrandiose (talk) 01:38, 31 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I think you may be confusing the Golden Horseshoe with the Greater Toronto Area. The Golden Horseshoe is not a Metropolitan Statistical Area or Census Metropolitan Area rather an area or region similar to the Boston–Washington megalopolis, Inland Empire, or South Florida metropolitan area. The Golden Horseshoe contains several different “MSA’s” or “CMA’s” within it.
 * As for the 401’s claim to be the “busiest”. You ask  “Is Toronto congested compared to LA ?” . Toronto has in fact surpassed Los Angeles in traffic congestion as illustrated here. A fact someone not familiar with Southern Ontario would have to consider is that the interstate system in the United States is far superior to the 400-Series system of Ontario. There are far more interstates to use in the area’s you mention. While in Southern Ontario the 401 is the only major east – west freeway across this particular area of the province. Where the freeway system in Chicago and LA may serve the local community more, the 401 is a major “thru-fare”. All thru-traffic and cargo between Detroit, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, etc. uses this freeway. Po&#39; buster (talk) 16:25, 31 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Please also see this discussion from last year. Mind  matrix  17:33, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Mindmatrix. I wasn't confusing metro Toronto with the Golden Horseshoe, I was just trying to compare the largest chunk of real estate I could find to make the comparison more fair. The article you cite (as well as the link to the older discussion) references commuting times, though, and not how busy the highway is, e.g. vehicles per hour. (People who live in Ventura, California and work in Hollywood aren't driving on California'a busiest highways, although their commute time is longer that some of the people who are). It's hard to find a reliable source for vehicles per hour or day or whatever; I'm just personally skeptical. I look at a map of the Toronto (and the Golden Horseshoe) area and the LA (and the SoCal) area and I see 401 and 407 connecting Toronto's east and west suburbs. The only significantly large suburban area seems to be Mississigua. Granted, Mississagua (pop. 700,000) is larger than most US counties, but if you look at the arteries between Orange (pop 3,000,000) and LA counties, there's only two interstates as well, and only one that goes to downtown LA (directly from Orange County). Also, Chicago's far north (Comparable in size to Mississagua) and southeast Lake County, Indiana suburbs share I-94 and 90 (joined together) as their exclusive freeway (or tollway) to Chicago. I've lived in those two metro areas, and I'm sure a New Yorker or someone from Dallas could provide a similar example. --Antigrandiose (talk) 12:22, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

In the Highway 401 article, it is stated by three sources that it is the busiest highway in North America, and one of the busiest and one of the widest highways in the world. Although there is no source to back up it being the busiest highway in the world, no other highway comes close to it in terms of sheer volume. Worldwide, volumes of 300,000 or more in a given section is very rare, and the 401 sees 505,000 cars per day passing between Weston Road and Highway 400 as of 2006. Haljackey (talk) 23:35, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

In Footnote 38 which is cited to back up the busiest highway claim it says that "Traffic on the 401 has doubled in the past 25 years and now averages 410,000 cars an hour". I'd suggest replacing/deleting the reference as it's not the original source and only muddies the waters on the debate. Zedcaster (talk • contribs) 17:42, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The Economy: Beginning
The beginning of the Economy section is a little confusing and not accurate. It begins by saying "since the privatization" of Hydro One in 1999, now Ontario Power Generation (OPG) produces most of the energy. It should be noted that since 2003 a Liberal government has been running Ontario, and all of the power creation is now in the public sphere. The OPG's wikipedia states itself that "ut is a public company wholly owned by the Government of Ontario." Furthermore, while the public institution of OPG provides 85% of the power, it is also noteworthy to mention that the Ontario Power Authority - another government agency - is responsible for purchasing most of the power for the province. It may be necessary to have an entire new section dedicated to Energy Industry in Ontario. Depending on whether a PC or Liberal government is in power, the landscape of the energy industry can change drastically. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.171.167 (talk) 13:57, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Category:Provinces and territories of Canada vs. Category:Ontario
Category:Ontario is itself a category within Category:Provinces and territories of Canada. — Robert Greer (talk) 12:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Famous Ontarians
Is this section really needed? Ontario is a rather large (and populous) province, and what exactly constitutes "famous"? It seems this section is bloating the page. These notable names can easily be moved onto more local pages (counties, cities, towns, and so on). Rufus843 (talk) 10:52, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed, I made a separate page for the list. List of people from Ontario. The list could be deleted of the main page now. Yes ? --PhilthyBear (talk) 23:38, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * BTW: PhilthyBear, I think the title of the article you split off is incorrect - some of those entries are not people. Mind  matrix  15:26, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I've wanted to delete the section for quite some time - it's just linkbait for other not-so-famous entities considered famous by their fans. I'll delete it now, but don't be surprised if it resurfaces. For the record, I think the article PhilthyBear split off should also be deleted - I agree that these belong in articles about the communities instead. Perhaps we can rework this as a "culture of Ontario" section. Mind  matrix  15:25, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I just copied the exact list from the main page. i didn't add or remove anyone, or edit anything. Feel free to edit the crap out of it.--PhilthyBear (talk) 17:33, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Map
At the moment, all I see is some historical maps and the locator map. Isn't there a decent map that actually shows the details of the province somewhere? Because this is pretty pathetic. john k (talk) 17:51, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Wisconsin
A recent addition to the article states "Ontario is bordered by....Wisconsin is across Lake Superior." I'm not sure if you could consider Wisconsin to be across the lake from Ontario. You would have to travel southwest on Lake Superior from Ontario to reach Wisconsin. The State of Wisconsin has no international boundary so it can't border Ontario. This edit may need to be reverted. UrbanNerd (talk) 16:43, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * You're right; I've reverted the edit. Michigan and Minnesota have a common border, under Lake Superior, that encloses Wisconsin. -M.Nelson (talk) 23:23, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Good article on Great Lakes levels
[http://detnews.com/article/20101108/METRO/11080360/Low-Great-Lakes-levels-prompt-new-call-for-action#ixzz14jknHuGQ Lynch, Jim, November 08. 2010 Low Great Lakes levels prompt new call for action: U.S., Canada look at options to slow flow out of Lake Huron] Detroit News. 7&amp;6=thirteen (talk) 23:49, 8 November 2010 (UTC) Stan

Motto
On June 1, 2009, an anonymous editor added an unreferenced paragraph describing the origin of Ontario's motto incepit fidelis sic permanet. The editor claims that the motto was added by Sir Henry William Stisted in 1868, and that it's borrowed from Olvera in Spain. I can find no evidence to support this. Rather, it appears that the motto was added in 1909 by James Whitney. See. Pburka (talk) 16:26, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

The States which Ontario borders
The article presently reads'' "Ontario is bordered by Manitoba on its west, Hudson Bay on its north, Quebec on its east, and by three states of the United States to its south (from west to east): Minnesota, Michigan, and New York. Ohio and Pennsylvania are across Lake Erie." '' I'm not sure why Ohio and Pennsylvania are singled out, all the States but Minnesota are bordered by a waterway. It should read:'' "Ontario is bordered by Manitoba to the west, Hudson Bay to the north, Quebec to the east, and by the U.S. states of Minnesota, Michigan, New York. Ohio and Pennsylvania." '' UrbanNerd (talk) 04:00, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Québec is seperated from Ontario by a waterway along the entire border as up until Lake Timaskameng far in the north and with the exception of a protrusion across the rivers near Montréal. The rivers seperating Minnesota and Ontario could probably be walked across at certain points at certain times of the year, and the other two have short and well trafficked bridges connecting them in Southern Ontario. YOu can't reach Pennsylvania and Ohio by car without passing through other states or using a specifically chartered ferry. The distinciton makes sense.

2011 census data
Ontario's population has been reported as +13 million residents for two years now. The articles current population reference is only an estimate, however the 2011 census does not include undisclosed amount of indian reserves populations which could number into the 100's of thousands. Also other Stats Canada links show Ontario's population well above the 12,851,821 shown in the 2011 census data. Not sure what number we should use. UrbanNerd (talk) 03:57, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * If Ontario's figures should be changed, then so should the other provinces, which use the 2011 Census populations. Also does that mean the census' figure for Canada (33.5 million) is incorrect too? I didn't know about the indian reserves population not being counted, but in your last link it seems the population estimate for 2011 was made in 2007 or earlier, probably based on the 2006 census. Any new estimates would have to be based on the 2011 census. Hypertall (talk) 00:46, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Reordering
I have ordered and grouped the sections in a way that seems consistent with a majority of the Province articles. I intend to do the same with the other 9 plus territories unless someone disputes this. Verne Equinox (talk) 00:25, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Formatting of the See Also section.
Someone (could not figure out who) did an ambitious job attempting to beautify the See Also section; putting the lists into sections with different alignments. While normally I applaud such efforts, it didn't actually work. Everything after the see also section was shoved against the right side of the page, except for re-justified lists which appear in random locations. I know enough to straighten it out, and commented out the formatting so now the See Also section is just a straight column of listed items. Everything below it is where it should be. However, I don't know enough about formatting wiki pages to get it to the way the formatter wanted it, or I would have just fixed it. Perhaps someone who is good at formatting can take a look and see what needs to be done. Listmeister (talk) 20:45, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Premiership
There seems to be a mild edit war going on regarding the premiership. Dalton McGuinty announced his resignation on Monday, October 15, but has not yet left the position of premier. In his speech he said "I will remain as Premier until that leadership convention." So until the Liberals pick a new leader, McGuinty remains premier. Pburka (talk) 01:30, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Airport
I have restored the info that is references about the airport. Not sure what the problem is - We now have 3 editors that see the value in the information. I dont see an advertisement at all just facts - that I do find interesting and that links to other articles of the same interest.Moxy (talk) 18:31, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I have partially reverted the statement. The part about it being one of the "world's largest air transportation hubs" is complete BS and original research. There are countless other larger /busier/more important hubs than YYZ. Pearson is small potatoes on a world scale. The referenced info about being the busiest in Canada was restored. UrbanNerd (talk) 18:41, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Did you look up this so called BS stuff before reverting edits made by a Yale/Harvard educated  historian that you call "gramps" - Top 30 is small potatoes? It has  made the top 30 list as seen here for years.Moxy (talk) 18:59, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * We needn't go into excess detail about the airport's statistics. But, it's pretty relevant to state that the main airport in Ontario is the country's largest. And that fact is adequately sourced. So, straight-up deletion was uncalled for. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  22:24, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed full deletion may have been excessive and was reinstated. But top 30 is absolutely small potatoes. If a reader wants to go into extreme detail about the airport the link to the Pearson article is provided. UrbanNerd (talk) 23:26, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I do believe that 29th out of 43,983 is not small - but agree does not need to be said.Moxy (talk) 23:31, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aXMgXLp.uQLY. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Diannaa (talk) 02:21, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Official Language
Services disponsible en Français for all government services, although some local offices are english only. Not sure about French only. Ontario has always had a French population and in some regions I believe the proportion of French to English is increasing, if still small. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.128.246 (talk) 17:00, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

French in Ontario

 * French Language Services Act (Ontario)
 * Submitted by DonaldRichardSands (talk) 00:20, 9 April 2013 (UTC)


 * The French Language Services Act: An Overview
 * DonaldRichardSands (talk) 00:23, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately certain areas that have bilingual services still doesn't give French official language status in the province. UrbanNerd (talk) 03:05, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree. It is of interest to Wikipedia readers, IMO, that Ontario has the FLSA. There probably are not very many jurisdictions which have such a legislated arrangement. The article should mention the fact at some point. DonaldRichardSands (talk) 21:31, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand "official" to mean that the government recognizes a language in which it will conduct official business. In the case of French in Ontario, it's not unconditional, but the FLSA makes French "official" in my view. The current description of English as de facto, and French as regional is accurate, I think. Willondon (talk) 02:57, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I understand "official" to mean that the government recognizes a language in which it will conduct official business. In the case of French in Ontario, it's not unconditional, but the FLSA makes French "official" in my view. The current description of English as de facto, and French as regional is accurate, I think. Willondon (talk) 02:57, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

NE vs E part of Ontario
Although NE might technically a subset of East, in Ontario they each refer to different locations. Eastern Ontario is east of Central Ontario, which is Toronto and the 905 belt, so it's (roughly) the region from about Kingston to the Quebec border and north to maybe North Bay. Northeastern Ontario is (roughly) everything north of that region, bounded by St James bay on the west. Anyways, bevause they are considered distinct zones, I reverted the changed that removed the distinction between the two areas. --Ca2james (talk) 04:17, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Flag icons
There has been some disputes to have flag icons in the infobox on various cities WP:INFOBOXFLAG states: "Human geographic articles – for example settlements and administrative subdivisions – may have flags of the country and first-level administrative subdivision in infoboxes; however, physical geographic articles – for example, mountains, valleys, rivers, lakes, and swamps – should not. Where a single article covers both human and physical geographic subjects (e.g. Manhattan), or where the status of the territory is subject to a political dispute, the consensus of editors at that article will determine whether flag use in the infobox is preferred or not." Meaning that cities, being human geographic articles could potentially be permitted to have flag icons. In addition there are many other articles such as New York City, Moncton, Fredericton, Las Vegas, etc. that have flags in the infoboxes. I am interested to see you input. Thanks. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 00:22, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * There is currently a discussion about this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cities/US Guideline. Magnolia677 (talk) 03:46, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Borders
Ontario shares two small land borders (and a long water border) with Nunavut. The land border can be seen here: https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.0645394,-82.2560075,14z — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.245.198.254 (talk) 15:41, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 3 one external links on Ontario. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100130162533/http://www.archives.gov.on.ca:80/english/on-line-exhibits/maps/ontario-districts.aspx to http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/english/on-line-exhibits/maps/ontario-districts.aspx
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International boundary
I changed "all but a small part of Ontario's 2,700 km (1,678 mi) border with the United States follows inland waterways" to remove "but a small part" to leave "all of Ontario's 2,700 km (1,678 mi) border with the United States follows inland waterways". If you know of any land in that border, please post its location here, and revert the article. Thanks, Nick Beeson (talk) 13:54, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Population year in infobox
Two editors have added 2016 population data to the infobox, here and here. I reverted, but it was reverted back.


 * WP:CCSG states: "Demographics - Use Canada 2011 Census data where available".
 * WP:USCITIES (the American equivalent) states "Do NOT include population projections past present time per WP:CRYSTAL".
 * Template:Infobox settlement states at the "population_total" perimeter: "the year for the population total (usually a census year)".
 * Template:Infobox province or territory of Canada (the infobox used on this article) only offers a perimeter for "PopulationYear"; there is no perimeter for estimated population.
 * Quebec uses a population year ("PopulationYear=) of 2014, while Manitoba uses a population year of 2011.

Also, both editors added 2016 demographic data using a source retrieved on August 13, 2015. Thank you for your input on these edits. Magnolia677 (talk) 22:33, 19 March 2016 (UTC)


 * The same page gets auto updated by Stats Can so the accessdate went unnoticed, changed to reflect today's date. Why should we use outdated info if current reliable info exists? If we have current info cited reliably, there shouldn't be a problem. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 22:45, 19 March 2016 (UTC)


 * WP:CANPOP states "the population figure and demographics from the last official Statistics Canada census is the principal definitive source for population data in articles." The longstanding implementation of this is the latest federal census population is presented in the infobox and the body of the article, and referenced population estimates can be included in the article in addition to the latest federal census population. Estimates cannot replace the latest federal census population. If the infobox allows, a second population can be added so long as the latest federal census population remains. This has been done successfully for some municipality articles. I'll explore for this infobox and be inspecting all other province and territory articles for other contraventions of CANPOP so that everything is consistent once again. Hwy43 (talk) 01:01, 20 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Update: only two articles were compromised. This one and Quebec. Further, I looked into Template:Infobox province or territory of Canada. No second set of population parameters for secondary population estimates. If Template:Infobox settlement can have multiple sets of population parameters, I don't see why we can't have a second one for this infobox for StatCan intercensal population estimates. I'll ask at Template talk:Infobox province or territory of Canada. Hwy43 (talk) 01:21, 20 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Update #2: Implemented at the template's sandox which successfully outputs as the following here. Awaiting someone with the appropriate editing privileges to transfer to the live template. Cheers, Hwy43 (talk) 02:17, 21 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Update #3: An editor with the appropriate editing privileges has now completed the request. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 02:36, 21 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Yep, by good ol' ! And since implemented across all 13 affected articles. Some minor bugs to work out when the parameters are not in use, which I'm lobbying for fixing at present. Hwy43 (talk) 02:57, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 one external links on Ontario. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit User:Cyberpower678/FaQs for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/database/article_display.cfm?HHID=661
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20091003124851/http://www.ontarioarchaeology.on.ca:80/summary/contact.htm to http://www.ontarioarchaeology.on.ca/summary/contact.htm
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Lake of Shining Waters?
The etymology section for this article defines Ontario as "Great Lake" or "Beautiful Water" - the Lake Ontario article however, defines it as "Lake of Shining Waters". It doesn't appear that any reference is provided for the latter definition, while the former two are properly cited; someone with knowledge of this topic should either remove the "Lake of Shining Water" definition from the other article or find a reference to support it. --Jpcase (talk) 15:59, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Geographic location
I trimmed the geographic location box, but Ontario is probably a bit too large for such a template, per Template:Geographic location: "While this template may be useful for cities, it certainly is redundant for continents, countries and other large geographical areas like states, provinces and islands."

If consensus is to keep the geo-box, then Hudson Bay should either be removed, or all the other significant bodies of water included, such as Lake Huron and so forth...

Thanks for your input. Magnolia677 (talk) 00:18, 15 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Not sure about the box in general, but I'd say that keeping Hudson Bay is valid whereas the other bodies of water are not. After all Hudson Bay does for the entire northern border of the province whereas lake Huron, Ontario, Erie etc just lie along parts of borders. Canterbury Tail   talk  14:51, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
 * James Bay makes up about 40 percent of the northern border. Magnolia677 (talk) 16:10, 15 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, but it's accepted to be a subsidiary part of the Hudson Bay, they're not 2 fully independent bodies of water. Canterbury Tail   talk  16:29, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

US state map
Is it possible, since Ontario is a border province, to have an image which shows adjacent states in the USA it shares a border with? I think that could be more useful than just isolating it to Canada. Ranze (talk) 13:12, 2 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Do the US states show the Canadian provinces and territories in their maps? Canterbury Tail   talk  13:47, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Inclusion of Toronto FC II
Hi! The professional sports section of this article states that Ontario has 14 pro sports teams. Should Toronto FC II be included? Although they are affiliated with Toronto FC, they are a professional sports team in their own right and the league that they play in is professional as well. Should we add them to the list? Regards, Jith12 (talk) 22:40, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Seems like having a count is problematic. I'll take that out and we can probably figure out what teams to include. Alaney2k (talk) 22:52, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok. I also sorted the list. If the Fury are in the list, then it seems appropriate to have the FC II. I think the 905 Raptors can also be added. Alaney2k (talk) 23:01, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Bruce
The article lists Bruce as the largest nuclear power station in the world, but I think it should be the Kashiwazaki-Kariwa Nuclear Power Plant in Japan as the largest. Bruce has a larger campus, but not a larger electricity production capacity, which I think is a better criteria for ranking size. Bruce would be second in the world by that criteria.Reesorville (talk) 03:02, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

The States that Border Ontario
I think Ontario is a cool place and I really like what this article says about it. However, regarding the U.S. states that border Ontario to the south, I feel like Wisconsin is wrongfully excluded from the five other states on the border. At one point, WI actually did border ON, but due to historical border disputes, it lost its territory to the north. As it is, Ohio and Pennsylvania barely border Ontario being on the north shore of Lake Michigan, albeit unobstructed by other states, rather than touching land. Furthermore, Wisconsin is more culturally similar to Ontario and Canada as a whole than both of those states, citing maple syrup production, hockey enthusiasm and lumberjack culture (at least generically speaking). I could be misunderstanding this situation as being more unfair than it is, indeed I have met several Canadians who live here. However I feel like WI is closer to Ontario (not to mention at about the same latitude as bordering Michigan and Minnesota) than the Lake Erie states. I'm not saying the article should be changed so that Wisconsin is listed next to its neighbors to the east and west (although I have tried to do that myself), but it would be nice if people who read this page thought of WI as part of the states that technically border Canada. To anyone who considers Wisconsin a Canada-bordering state (including you friendly Canucks), I sincerely appreciate that, as do many other Wisconsinites.

Wiscipidier Wiscipidier (talk) 20:34, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi Wiscipidier! While I understand your affinity for Ontario, content in Wikipedia must be verifiable. This means that we should be able to point at a reliable source to support every claim we make in the encyclopedia. If you want to add that Ontario borders Wisconsin, you need to find a book, journal or newspaper which says so. Since the claim is obviously somewhat controversial, you need to make sure it's a top quality source, and probably provide two or three sources to be safe. Pburka (talk) 21:38, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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External links modified (January 2018)
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Official language
This article currently states that the province's official language is English. However, this is only a half-truth, because, at the sub-provincial level, the city of Ottawa designated French as co-official as of 2017. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.169.40.9 (talk) 14:47, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

"Big Sky Music Festival" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Big Sky Music Festival. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. signed,Rosguill talk 21:12, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Literature
Doesn't Ontario have any literature? Rwood128 (talk) 14:05, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Does Ontario have a blue sky? Alaney2k (talk) 13:22, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Sometimes, Alaney2k. But I see no discussion of its writers. Even lowly NL has some discussion of its culture. Rwood128 (talk) 16:43, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Lack of useful map
How is it possible that, in the year 2021, this article lacks a useful map indicating the primary administrative divisions and settlements of Ontario? It's an embarrassment. Please correct this situation. Even the Wikipedia articles for Chinese provinces like Hebei have this. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 00:21, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

On Language
Both Centre and Center (Centred/Centered) are used in the Canadian lexicon depending on the specific context. Referring to the spacial orientation of a thing, 'center' can be used, whereas 'centre' is always used for institutions. Edit4Truth&#38;Clarity (talk) 19:33, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, they are both used, but "centered" is the standard spelling for the orientation. Why change it to the less common variant? Meters (talk) 19:37, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

How many geographic regions?
The lede currently says that Ontario consists of two geographic regions. The nearest cited source does not support that claim. The source says that Ontario consists of six or nine regions.

To make matters worse, the Geography section immediately says that Ontario consists of three regions, without citation.

I get that differing authors will disagree on how regions are delineated, but the text as it stands is downright hostile to the reader. Maybe the prudent strategy would be to remove all grand regionalizations that aren't backed up by sources that clarify what is meant. Mgnbar (talk) 00:19, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Dispute about Infobox content
An issue has come up: should the infobox to this article contain the field "government_type", filled in with "Parliamentary constitutional monarchy". Since this issue affects all ten provinces and the three territories, a Request for Comment has been started on the Canadian Wikipedians Notice Board. If you interested in this issue, please come to the Notice Board and contribute to the discussion. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 00:58, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Undocumented parameter
Hello, how to make a undocumented parameter visible in the infobox? 2804:14C:58:5564:7553:605B:6F58:7DC9 (talk) 21:58, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If you want to suggest a new parameter for use in the infobox, I'd suggest bringing it up at Template talk:Infobox province or territory of Canada or Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board. Leventio (talk)