Talk:Ontario Highway 11/Archive 1

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Notice to all Wikipedians: Do not plagiarize information found on www.thekingshighway.ca! My website is not considered public domain. All of my research findings are protected by copyright. Thank-you! Cbevers 22:02, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry, no offense or violation was meant. The information is nowhere near as detailed, resting on generalities, not mentioning the bridges, doubt about usefulness if completed as hoped (I am avoiding specificity even on this talk page). GBC 01:25, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

The bottom line is that information was clearly obtained from my website and posted on Wikipedia without my permission, and I get extremely frustrated when I see this happening. I dedicate an enormous amount of my spare time researching Ontario's highways, and I do not appreciate it when my research is plagiarized and placed on Wikipedia. My biggest concern with Wikipedia is their "Free Licensing" policy, which allows anyone reading a Wikipedia article to copy it and redistribute it at will. The problem lies in the fact that once my research gets plagiarized and posted on Wikipedia, it essentially becomes public domain and I lose all credit for my research work. All of the credit for the work goes to Wikipedia, and not to me. I find this deplorable and extremely unfair. I'm not trying to make money off of my research (my website is free for everyone to view, after all), but I do insist that I get credit for my work. Unfortunately, Wikipedia has such a liberal copyright policy, that I can never allow my research work to be posted on this website. Thank-you for your understanding. Cbevers 01:16, 17 August 2005 (UTC)


 * As has been pointed out to you repeatedly, information cannot be protected as copyrighted intellectual property; only your specific presentation of such information can be. You can claim copyright infringement if a Wikipedia article copies and pastes text verbatim from your site, but being used as a reference does not and cannot constitute plagiarism. You own your presentation of the facts, not the facts themselves. Bearcat 03:08, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Beginings of Highway 11
In the main article it specifies that Highway 11 Begins at Highway 400 in Ontario. That is absolutely incorrect, as looking at any Ontario Highway map or checking the 'Official' Ontario Governemnt of Ontario Website would show that Highway 11 Begins at the Foot of Yonge Street!

If one were to travel to Downtown Toronto, Travel south on Highway 11A or Highway 11, both Highways join at the Junction of Lakeshore Boulevard, and Yonge Street. 1 Block south of this Junction Yonge Street still heads south until it reaches "Queens Quay", pronounced 'queens key' and at the foot of the intersection on top of the Breakwater, before it dips into Lake Ontario is the inscription "Here begins the Longest Street ....."

and finally ends aproximately 1200 Km later at the Ontario / Minnesota Border with a Bridge across Rainy River in the town of Rainy River. --Richard416282 06:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Highway 11 was given to the local governments south of Barrie in the late 1990s. There may still be signs, but they are now incorrect. See. --SPUI (T - C) 14:38, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Any map of Ontario that designates anything south of the Highway 400 interchange in Barrie as still being part of Highway 11 is either ten years old, or based on outdated information. Bearcat 03:04, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Since all of Highway 11 in Toronto was a connecting link for the last several years of its life, it's hard to dissern the actual "provincial" southern terminus of Highway 11. I would assume that, Highway 11 truncated at another provincial highway (Highway 2). Therefore it seems reasonable that the section of Yonge Street between the Gardiner (Highway 2) and Queen's Quay was not part of Highway 11. Just my educated guess. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.92.76.227 (talk) 19:58, November 14, 2006 Until all the signs are removed, or maybe when all of us who lived before Mike "Slash and Burn" Harris die off, then you can remove any references to south of Barrie, and Queen's Quay (while the Gardiner was being built in the 60s, QQ was the detour)... Will the same argument apply to a historic US Route long superceded by an Interstate??Bacl-presby 15:09, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Yonge Street as longest named street in the world
Were parts of the 11 designated as Yonge Street by communities other than Toronto? (Similar to US 101 being called "Camino Real" in various places) - knoodelhed 18:25, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Through Vaughan, Markham, Richmond Hill, Aurora, Newmarket and West Gwillimbury. At Holland Landing, Yonge St. and Highway 11 diverged, and 11 became "Bridge Street" and "Barrie Street" through rural Simcoe County — but in Barrie, Highway 11 picks up the Yonge St. name again. However, after the Barrie bit of Yonge St. ends, no part of 11 north of that picks up the name again. Bearcat 22:58, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Highway 411
Is it possible that the section from Barrie to North Bay could gain the designation of Highway 411, once it is a complete freeway? I could also see Highways 400 and 411 being multiplexed right to Highway 401... RingtailedFox • Talk • Stalk 21:07, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No, according to the Ministry there are no plans to give 11 a 400-series designation at this time. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  12:21, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Former units of Highway 11
Is there some way to include roads that were originally part of Highway 11 in this article? I know there are a few roads in Temagami that used to be part of Ferguson Highway and have been abandoned or repurposed since they were cut off from the current Highway 11.  Volcano guy  03:42, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I think the Ferguson Highway may deserve an article in its own right to describe the historical route, since the present Highway 11 bypasses most of it. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  12:19, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * That's what I was thinking. Just not sure if that is necessary because according to the article Ferguson Highway is the original name of Highway 11. There is no need to create two articles about the same thing with different titles. The main reason I see to create an article titled Ferguson Highway is to include the early history of Highway 11 and roads that were originally part of Highway 11. If it is necessary to create an article titled Ferguson Highway I will create a stub for it.  Volcano guy  18:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Nah. Try to avoid making stubs; I'm trying to de-stub Ontario roads. The Ferguson is indeed Highway 11 (as it was built in the late 20s and early 30s before 11 went north of the Severn River), and it would be to detail the enormous amount of history there is for Highway 11 (very little of which has actually made an appearance here thus far) prior to 1937. For now, it's probably best to expand the history section of this article until it's ready to be forked. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  23:51, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, after thinking about it, the Ferguson Highway is not the same as Highway 11. The Ferguson Highway was the portion of Highway 11 extending from North Bay to the town of Cochrane further north. Highway 11 itself extends from Barrie in the south to as far north as Cochrane. So the Ferguson Highway is actually a northern portion of Highway 11. I am going to create a page for the Ferguson Highway once I find more information about it. There is nothing on Wikipedia that states road articles can not be stubs.  Volcano guy  07:31, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Until April 1, 1937, Highway 11 travelled from Toronto to north of Orillia, after which it was the Ferguson Highway (which went from the Severn River to Hearst). The entire Ferguson became Highway 11 after that date. Since then, Highway 11 has been extended to the Minnesota border (reaching there in the mid-1960s), but has almost entirely bypassed the old roads that made up the Ferguson. If you take a look at this satellite shot,, you can see the old Ferguson climbing northwest, zig-zagging like a staircase, while Highway 11 travels through it diagonally. Yes I know there is nothing on Wikipedia that prohibits stubs, but there is plenty to discourage them. Add to that another knowledgeable editor saying "these two roads are the same road", and there is a good rationale for not creating a stub. Not to mention that it may misdirect reader from viewing a longer and more comprehensive article (Highway 11). There are hoardes of information on the Ferguson; plenty of pictures in the online database for the Ontario Archives; Newspaper articles in the public library archives of all the towns along the highway, etc. You can make it a stub, but I will come in and improve it so that it is not. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  14:06, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * That's fine. I created a stub last night - Ferguson Highway. In addition, the Ferguson Highway plaque in Latchford by the Ontario Heritage Foundation, Ministry of Culture and Recreation states this: "In 1925 the Ontario government began construction of this 200-mile trunk-road between Cochrane and North Bay. The road was intended to link the rapidly developing mining and agricultural communities of 'New Ontario' with the province's southern regions. Several sections of rebuilt local roads were incorporated into the gravel highway and the final link was completed through the dense Temagami forest. The highway was officially opened on July 2, 1927, and named in honour of the Hon. G. Howard Ferguson, Premier of Ontario (1923-30) and long-time promoter of northern development. It immediately became an important access route to northern settlements and tourist regions, and later became part of the northern route of the Trans-Canada Highway." How did the entire Ferguson become Highway 11 after 1937? Highway 11 does not even take the same routes the Ferguson did. Roads like Wilson Lake Road and Lowell Lake Road in Temagami were part of the Ferguson, but they are not part of Highway 11.  Volcano guy  01:01, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Well yes, its been bypassed entirely over the years by better alignments. In some cases, the old alignment remained as a local road (often the case in the Temagami region since the rift valley there allows for farming, and thus, concession roads which are maintained). Further to the north (such as in that satellite shot), it has gradually disintegrated into a dirt path through the forest.


 * All roads north of the Canadian Shield divide (which is the Trent Severn Waterway from all points west of Bobcaygeon) were maintained by the Department of Northern Development, until it was amalgamated into the Department of Highways on April 1, 1937. Until then, none of the roads in northern Ontario had numbers. In the few months following that, those highways were given numbers.


 * Officially, only the portion north of North Bay was ever named in honour of Ferguson; however, by 1936, even the government maps labelled the route that continued beyond Highway 11 as the Ferguson Highway. I included a picture of the 1938 DOH Annual Report that shows this practise. It also gives the lengths (in miles) of the sections of the Ferguson Highway within Muskoka, Parry Sound, Nipissing, Temiskaming and Cochrane Districts. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  03:54, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I would add pics of the Ferguson Highway in the Temagami region, but I am not completely sure if the road I have pics of was really part of the highway. It branches off Highway 11 in the north to Lowell Lake Road in the south. From what I know, Lowell Lake Road was part of the Ferguson Highway. This connects with Highway 11 south of the other road but the other road connects with Lowell Lake Road about a quater way down it. From looking at Google Earth and being down Lowell Lake Road myself, the only other spot that comes back out to Highway 11 is the other road that connects with Lowell Lake Road, which is why I think it was also part of the Ferguson Highway. If you look at Google Earth the road should be called Trailer Park Road, although I think that is an error. It would be good if there is some way to make sure the "Trailer Park Road" was indeed part of the Ferguson Highway.  Volcano guy  03:48, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't be able to verify any specific alignments south of New Liskeard, but its safe to assume that is Lowell Lake Road south of that junction is part of the Ferguson Road, then the road labelled as Trailer Park Road likely was as well. By the looks of it, the trail that travels north from this point, then angles alongside the tracks back to Highway 11 is probably the original route. -  ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  τ ¢  21:24, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes it is. There is actually no road extending west across the pipeline from the point as shown on there. For further proof Lowell Lake Road was part of the Ferguson it is shown on VintagePostcards.org (the pic of a car driving along Lowell Lake) and a paper about some claims: "Highway 11 approximately marks the western boundary and the Lowell Lake Road (the old Ferguson Highway) an all weather gravel road passes through the middle of the claims from north to south".  Volcano guy  23:31, 7 September 2011 (UTC)