Talk:Opel-RAK

me pahato
me pahato 2409:4042:881:18EC:14DD:F204:20D1:B582 (talk) 08:44, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

POV tag
Since September 2021 a SOCK has made multiple entries on this article that exaggerates Opel-RAK’s importance in the history of aviation and space exploration. Refer to this discussion on the Neutral point of view Noticeboard for further details. The article needs an extensive rewrite for it to present a NPOV view, supported by citations from reliable published sources. Ilenart626 (talk) 16:53, 4 February 2024 (UTC)


 * This article is based on the works of eminent and leading spaceflight historians Walter J. Boyne and Frank H. Winter. Boyne was Director of the National Air&Space Museum in Washington DC. Winter is a prominent authorxand spaceflight historian as well as former curator at the National Air&Space Museum. Their work was publushed in high quality sources like Air&Space Forces Magazine and the magazine of the Smithsonian Institution.
 * https://www.airandspaceforces.com/article/0904rocket/
 * https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/century-elon-musk-there-was-fritz-von-opel-180977634/
 * The relevance of Opel RAK and the content is also cinfirmed by leadung spaceflight history voice Michel van Pelt, of the European Space Agency and as publushed un online and nagazine version of Aeroplane and key.aero. https://www.key.aero/article/car-maker-opels-1929-publicity-stunt-fly-worlds-first-rocket-powered-aircraft
 * Furthermore the relevance if Opel RAK is confirmed very recently by John Uri of NASA and the NASA history site as the beginning of the rocket plane history nearly 100 years ago. He is serving asxNASA history manager.
 * All these high-quality sources and authors are cited in this article.
 * https://www.nasa.gov/history/95-years-ago-first-human-rocket-powered-aircraft-flight/
 * Of course any article can be improved, but the cited publications by by eminent historians of the Snithsonian, ESA and NASA are clear enough on the high relevance in the earliesr days of rocketry. There I will remove the NPOV tag again. 2003:DF:774D:1039:D1BF:D5C4:AD76:6956 (talk) 06:37, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * PS Even, what is rare for the earliest rocketry history, video footage is publicly available for many of the described activities from global media like British Pathé and UNIVERSAL newsreel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXs4vweB4U0 or more recently from Teknikens Värld https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO2NxU5vsNM 2003:DF:774D:1039:D1BF:D5C4:AD76:6956 (talk) 06:49, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * For starters the statement in the Lead “Opel RAK is generally considered the world's first large-scale rocket program, significantly advancing rocket and aviation technology as well as instrumental in popularizing rockets as means of propulsion…” is not supported by any of the references. Next the article has significant plagarism from https://www.airforcemag.com/article/0904rocket/ and these sections need to be rewritten. Next the section “Liquid-fuel rocket development” does not contain any references. Finally “The impact of Opel RAK was both immediate and long-lasting on later spaceflight pioneers.” is not supported by any references.  I could go on but I believe this is enough.
 * Finally, opinions from an unregistered user who has obviously being undertaking multiple Sockpuppetry activities at Wikipedia should be discounted, if not completely ignored. Ilenart626 (talk) 11:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Regarding Ilenart626 criticism on world's first rocket program. This is directly supported by citation from Frank H. Winter piece "A Century Before Elon Musk, There Was Fritz von Opel
 * With the Austrian visionary Max Valier, this German tycoon started the world’s first rocket program." in the Smithsonian Magazin. Contentwise it is also supported by Walter J. Boyne's piece. "Three young Germans—Fritz von Opel, Max Valier, and Friedrich Sander—were especially affected, and their ensuing 1928-29 experiments with aircraft and rocket power cast a long shadow on aviation.
 * Von Opel, heir to a German automotive empire, financed and led the experiments. By sponsoring early tests of rocket-powered transport, he popularized the idea of rocket propulsion in Germany. The work, though short-lived, had a tremendous effect on the development of air and space flight." 2003:DF:774D:1039:D1BF:D5C4:AD76:6956 (talk) 12:07, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * It is a bit strange too neglect completely, as Ilenert626 does, the publications of two of the most prominent spaceflight historians like Winter and Boyne of National Air&Space museum in DC as directir (Boyne) and curator (Winter) in high quality publications like Air&Space Forces magazine as well as the Smithsonian Magazine. 2003:DF:774D:1039:D1BF:D5C4:AD76:6956 (talk) 12:13, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Additionally, in contrast to Ilenerts claims, in the section on liquid rockets, again Frank H Winter and one of his publications is mentioned as source. (SPACEFLIGHT, Vol. 21,2, Feb. 1979. Furthermore a speech by Opel himself on the occasion of the handover of the RAK2 to Germany's most famous technology museum, the Deutsches Museum, is mentioned and provides the respective information. Thirdly Max Valier as contemporary and member of the RAK team mentions the liquid work in hia book "Raketenfahrt", published in 1930.Opel 2003:DF:774D:1039:D1BF:D5C4:AD76:6956 (talk) 12:22, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * PS Added all three hi-quality liquid rocket references that were already mentioned in the text as formal Wikipedia references. A) Spaceflight historian Frank H. Winter un Spaceflight magazine from 1979, von Opel himself at Deutsches Museum in 1968, and the book "Raketenfahrt" by early rocket pioneer Max Valier from 1930. 2003:DF:774D:1039:D1BF:D5C4:AD76:6956 (talk) 12:56, 12 February 2024 (UTC)