Talk:Operation Halyard

News article
Found this article today. http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/10/18/2010-10-18_george_vujnovich_orchestrator_of_largest_air_rescue_of_american_soldiers_awarded.html Malke 2010 (talk) 21:11, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Book
Thomas J. Craughwell, Great Rescues of WORL WAR II--Свифт (talk) 21:02, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Links

 * OPERATION "AIR BRIDGE" Draza Mihailovich and the Rescue of US Airmen during World War II, by Carl K. Savich


 * Halyard Mission - Interviews with US airmen


 * Halyard Mission


 * 65 anniversary of the end of the Halyard Mission


 * US Veterans share WWII survival story


 * Provoz Halyard 1944.


 * Pictures Gallery OPERATION "AIR BRIDGE"

Operation Halyard, Serbia, 1944
 * Photo Collection from Arthur 'Jibby' Jibilian, American Hero from WWII


 * Bronze Star Awarded to Unsung WWII Hero - Video CBS NEWS


 * George Vujnovich awarded Bronze Star after 66 years for largest air rescue of American soldiers


 * Operation Halyard


 * Operation Halyard mission evokes forgotten friendships among Serbs, Americans - Marine Corps


 * The project mission

--Свифт (talk) 22:30, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * G.S. Musulin, Who Got G.I.'s Out of Yugoslavia, Dies at 72 - The New York Times
 * There might also be a PBS video or a History Channel video about this. I was talking with someone about this and they mentioned it.  I'll look for it tonight.  Would be great if true.Malke 2010 (talk) 02:00, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Monument in Washington

 * To erect a monument to General Draza Mihailovich in Washington--Свифт (talk) 19:20, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Article about the Rescue pilots by the Chetniks
This article is about the Rescue pilots by the Chetniks and Mission Halyard. If you want to write about the Rescue pilots by the Partisans write a separate article. What you have written to the Chetniks rescued Ustasha pilots do not even want to comment.--Свифт (talk) 07:33, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * If so, then provide evidence they did not save Nazi pilots? Where is your evidence? You make various allegations but you fail to substantiate them. Please see my comment below, I substantiated all my claims. You can verify them. You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting General Draza Mihailovic who slaughtered Serb women and children. Photos of some victims are located here http://www.znaci.net/00001/22.htm .Yahalom Kashny (talk) 05:24, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Axis-occupied Democratic Federal Yugoslavia???
controversial edit
 * I don't think so. Axis powers occupied the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, not Democratic Federal Yugoslavia.
 * Target page: Democratic Federal Yugoslavia; text to display: Yugoslavia; Why? I do not see a logical explanation.--Слободни умјетник (talk) 17:07, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Dragi Slobodni umjetniče, the name of the Yugoslav state in 1944 and 1945, recognized universally by the Allies, was "Democratic Federal Yugoslavia". The DFY government (the AVNOJ) was recognized by the Allies in 1943, and the government in exile was forced to accept. The King appointed anew prime minister, the Croat Ivan Šubašić, and he and Tito agreed upon all this with the Tito-Šubašić Agreement on the (beautiful) Dalmatian island of Vis. The best example of this are the King's own words in his speech of September 1944: "Živela naša velika slobodna federativna Jugoslavija!" --  DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 19:56, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Interesting and imaginative interpretation, but the questionable objectivity. It does not matter to me personally, but it's not good for an encyclopedia. I'm still waiting for an explanation of second bullet of my remark.--Слободни умјетник (talk) 20:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm sure it is indeed "interesting" for you, never having familiarised yourself with the historiography on the period, but I would not know if its "imaginative" or not... you should probably ask the King? Perhaps he was being "subjective" as well? Was he actually a communist? Or did he have another "federal Yugoslavia" he was referring to? I'd be fascinated to hear your theories on the subject.


 * The second point makes no sense at all. "Democratic Federal Yugoslavia" is the full name, "Yugoslavia" is short. This is how we write wikilinks on Wikipedia ( Germany; Italy; Yugoslavia, etc. ). -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 20:45, 27 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I know what the king said in september 1944. You don't have to "familiarise" me about that. Yugoslavia (not DFY) was occupied only once (1941), and was freed only in 1945. These facts are very clear. No need for you or me to invent our theories and dubious interpretation. ;) --Слободни умјетник (talk) 22:46, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
 * (I'm sure you do know what the King said, now that I linked you his speech... ;))


 * Correct. Yugoslavia was occupied in 1941, changed its name in 1943/44 ('44 if you count from the Vis Agreement), and was fully liberated in 1945 (though HUGE chunks of it were in Allied Partisan hands since early 1944). Anything unclear?
 * Also I did not "interpret" anything, those are merely very basic facts from the Tito-Šubašić Agreement - the fact that you do not know anything about them would seem to indicate a serious lack of knowledge on WWII Yugoslavia. In any case, I do not intend to waste my time here in idle chit-chat on ridiculous Bradonje propaganda. -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 23:04, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Halyard
This article is about the operation Halyard and rescue Allied pilots from the Chetniks. If you have evidence that the Chetniks rescued and the other pilots you can write a separate article on the operation. I suppose that is the operation also was had codenamed. Halyard Mission was a secret military operation of the Office of Strategic Services, the U.S. Air Force and the Yugoslav Army in the Homeland. So that this article applies only to that mission.--Свифт (talk) 09:24, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Nice try. Chetnik rescues and general context are certainly relevant to the scope of this article. There's a lot more than what I included. For example, Chetnik troops in northern Bosnia brutally murdered 31 American B-29 crew members that were taking shelter with the Partisans on May 14 1944. I assure you this is quite related to this subject. Don't make me write-up and entire "Background" section. -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 10:27, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

No B-29s EVER operated in Europe during World War II.173.62.39.116 (talk) 18:27, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I would like to see a list of names of killed U.S. airmen. Of course an American source. The Americans was keep track of their losses. --Свифт (talk) 11:27, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * LoL. Names are not necessary, merely a reliable peer-review source (WP:V). Your own "criteria" do not concern me. If I have the time to write-up a Background section, I'll get back. For the time being the current text is sufficient to describe the general context of the Bradonje activities regarding Allied pilots. -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 12:59, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I have already mentioned that this article on Operation Halyard and that this article concerns only the topic, who I have been editing for weeks. You are have appeared to sabotage my work and to do damage to this article from the only reasons known to you. You have specified as the source of Philip Cohen, who is by profession a doctor and has no historical knowledge. Also, this doctor has never dealt with research Operation Halyard.--Свифт (talk) 14:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * DIREKTOR, why you use mock and derogatory names ("bradonje propaganda", "bradonje activities" etc)? Please be polite, this is Wikipedia.--Слободни умјетник (talk) 14:21, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Originating he from a country that has a Nazi past in WW2 (Independent State of Croatia) and was an ally of the Third Reich. On this way wants to Allied operations against Nazi belittle.--Свифт (talk) 14:32, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I suppose you two then originate from the Nazi Nedić's Serbia? :) How amusing. An interesting point of view, though I expect such pro-Axis perspective of history should not be surprising in Bradonje supporters :)
 * (P.S. Split was annexed by the Chetniks' pals: Fascist Italy, not given to the NDH - and then joined the Partisans en masse when the liberated the city in 1943. A bit of Dalmatian history for ya.) -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 15:19, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

To be brief: -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 15:14, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) The text is relevant as background information on Chetnik activities with Allied airmen - without the slightest shadow of a doubt. You simply want it removed because it is unfavourable towards the Bradonje, whom you are trying to glorify in this article. Not much more to say on that subject.
 * 2) The source is university published (peer-review) in a prominent university and lists primary sources. It is in accordance with Wikipedia policy and will not be censored to fit your Chetnik-promotion agenda.
 * 3) I am not "sabotaging" your work, in fact I did not touch your work except the minor personal comment ("the most successful air force rescue missions in history"), which is entirely unsourced and highly POV. By all means, expand Wikipedia and add all the details you can.
 * Split is an integral part as Croatia, which was had a Nazi past in WW2. You want to wash your Nazi past. During World War II official name was Germany okupacina zone of Serbia, but not Nedic regim. What is the name of the country, Nedic regime? Serbia was not an independent country already occupied territory. Croatia, Hungary, Bulgaria and Slovakia were independent states and allies of the Third Reich. These countries have sent their regular troops to fight on the Eastern Front. Serbia, the Czech and Poland were occupation zone of the Third Reich. It is not my contention "the most successful air force rescue missions in history", but U.S. Congressman. Read for yourself what the congressman Burton said: Why you edit the article concerning the history of Serbia, even though if you are from Croatia?  You don know better the history of Serbia than are we!--Свифт (talk) 16:12, 30 January 2011 (UTC)


 * "Bradonje" ("bearded guys") is a non-derogatory nickname for Chetniks. Are you Chetniks? Should I apologize to you?


 * My point was that simply because the Germans occupy your country and install a Nazi puppet does not mean your country "has a Nazi past". Nedić's Serbia was a lesser puppet than the NDH, but it was still very much in existence, recruiting thousands upon thousands of troops to fight for the Nazis. Does that mean Serbia has a Nazi past? What about Pavle Karađorđević who actually signed the our country into the Axis Powers? Are the Karađorđević's Nazis then? By your "definition", France, Poland, Norway, Slovakia, Greece, etc. all have a "Nazi past". "Croatia" during WWII is the Federal State of Croatia. (And this from a guys who supports a movement that supplied the Nazis with a total of 120,000 support troops over the course of 4 years ^_^)


 * That is about enough of that though: please consider this a formal warning. If you write any more hatemongering nonsense such as "Croatia has a Nazi past", together we shall see whether accounts get blocked for ethnic attacks on Wiki. -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 19:42, 30 January 2011 (UTC)


 * As for the congressman: he is NOT a historian. It may be interesting to note what he called it, but it is not for the lead, and it needs to be made clear that these are his words (i.e. "Congressman Button called it this or that"). -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 19:44, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

I am not offended yours nation, I only said that Croatia was a Nazi state in WW2. And it is true. Statement of Congressman Burton I not a used as referenucu but as an example. To you learned something! Too many you believe the book of Philip Cohen. Medical doctor Philip Cohen, a man who heals people, he wrote the book "Serbia's Secret War". The very title of the book is controversial and represent the yellow press. So problematic of titles you can write a book on any nation. The doctor wrote a history of Serbia but is not a historian. This controversial book deals with the conspiracy theory. This book is anti-Serbian and not scientific but "the easy" and sensationalist book. Also, in this yellow book, is not studied Operation Halyard. And you who don know nothing about this rescue operation! You did not know the all the names of members of the Halyard Mission.You have stated that the Chetniks (Serbs) killed the American pilots and that was untrue. Your intention is clear you want to reduce the importance of this great rescue operation. You can not change the truth and for you the pain truth. That your problem!--Свифт (talk) 14:31, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I should "learn something"? xD So far I feel like a history teacher explaining basic stuff like the Treaty of Vis...
 * "Croatia" was actually not "a Nazi state during WWII". :) The "Independent State of Croatia" (NDH) was "a Nazi state during WWII". "Croatia" was legally a Banovina of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia up to 1943, and then a Federal State of the Democratic Federal Yugoslavia afterwards (1943-45). Though, again, I am not at all surprised 1) that you are unfamiliar with this period's history, and 2) I am not surprised that a Chetnik supporter believes Nazi puppets are legitimate states ^_^


 * About the rest I can only repeat: "2) The source is university published (peer-review) in a prominent university and lists primary sources. It is in accordance with Wikipedia policy and will not be censored to fit your Chetnik-promotion agenda."
 * -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 14:41, 1 February 2011 (UTC)


 * You do not know the basic history and international law. International recognition of Yugoslavia was created just after World War II. You claim that during the war there Federal Croatia. What was the capital of Federal Croatia and its territory in 1944? During the 1944 did not exist of Federal Croatia! Perhaps only on paper. The regular Croatian troops have fought together with German forces until the end of the war May 1945. That why I say that you wash Nazi past of your country. Besides that, you write the articles  about the history of Serbia, which is not your country. So that, you have intentions very bad. You are very biased and anti-Serb mood. You are dealing propaganda. Also, you do not know anything about Operation Halyard!--Свифт (talk) 15:47, 1 February 2011 (UTC)


 * They know the history WW2 That was very important for me.--Свифт (talk) 16:03, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ROFL, keep yur silly propaganda vids to yourself please xD.
 * Your revisionist, pro-Axis interpretation of history does not concern me. Though I am somewhat amused :). You see, Yugoslavia was already internationally recognized in 1919 as the "Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes". The fact that it was reorganized in 1929 as the "Kingdom of Yugoslavia" or in 1943 as the "Democratic Federal Yugoslavia" supported by the Allies is quite another matter. You must be thinking of Kosovo or something xD. Simply because you choose to call the NDH military "regular Croatian troops" does not mean they were, in fact, troops of "Croatia". For example, the 8th Dalmatian Corps of the Partisans was also full to the brim with "regular Croatian troops".


 * Let me make an example. I can also choose to call Nedić's troops "regular Serbian troops", and say "thousands of regular Serbian troops fought for the Nazis". If the Germans install a puppet government in your country and use its troops, should I condemn your nation as "an ex-Nazi nation". See how ridiculous that is? Look, the bottom line is you think "Croats are Nazis at heart" or whatever and your free to do so. I really do not care. Just make sure you do not start edit-warring to remove high-quality sourced text from the article - again. -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 16:08, 1 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, I know you think I'm "anti-Serbian". Croat nationalists on Wiki call me "pro-Serbian" and "anti-Croatian". Bosniaks have been heard calling me a "Chetnik". I've been called a "Nazi", a "communist", a "fascist", and an "anti-French person" :). The fact of the matter is is quite simple: I'm simply trying my best to prevent you nationalist fellas (Serbian, Croatian, Bosniak or otherwise), to ruin Wikipedia with your nonsense folk-worship of Chetniks, Ustaše, Domobrani, or whatever. Strict objectivity, strictly by the sources. You will neither add information without reliable sources, nor will you remove info that is supported by reliable, peer-review sources. Simple, see? -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 16:17, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Germany occupation zone of Serbia was not an independent country already occupied territory. That territory is managed by German military command, which had its occupation troops. According to international law and the Geneva Convention occupation millitary command is needed to establish civil administration of the local population. Thus, the established was regime of Nedic, who was appointed to fulfill the requirements of the German command. Nedic regime did not have a Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Ministry of the military. His regime has had a Ministry of Health, Education, Police and others. His regime did not have diplomatic missions in other countries. Serbian State Guard was a police unit within the Ministry of Police. Police units were armed with light weapons, had no air force, artillery and more. Police unit is operated only in Serbia. You have a lot to learn and I ll be your a teacher.


 * Greater Croatia was an independent country and an ally of Adolf Hitler. That state has had all the attributes of independence. Croats and Muslims have been state-building nations that states. Croatia which was the official name is Independent State of Croatia was conducted genocide against the Serbian minority and the Jews. Croatia had its own army and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. 80,000 Croatian troops are fighting on the Eastern Front in WW2. You come from a country that was an ally of Adolf Hitler in WW2. You minimize the importance of your country in all that.


 * The official name of the Democratic Federal Yugoslavia was created because the first post-war government was a coalition between the Communist Party of Yugoslavia led by Josip Broz and the Democratic Party Milan Grol. Only after that was followed by international recognition. After that, the Communists led by Josip Broz a introduced by the dictatorship and banned the operation of all political parties in Yugoslavia. You on the basis of an agreement on the island of Vis claim that was created and then there was another Croatian. There was only on paper. Croatian state was on the side of Adolf Hitler. You in this way minimize the Holocaust that occurred in Croatia.--Свифт (talk) 16:37, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * The NDH was not independent - it was a puppet state. Yes Nedić's Serba was of course a lot less independent than the NDH, and the NDH was a lot less independent than Tiso' Slovakia, etc. My question is: so what?? There existed both Croatian and Serbian governments collaborating with the Nazis. Both governments recruited thousands of Serbs and Croats to fight for the Nazis. You're saying Croats are pro-Nazis and Serbs are not because your government was less independent from Germany? :) Dare I mention here that the Franco-royalist/fascistoid Chetniks supplied the Italians and germans with thousands more of Serbian troops, judged by the Germans to be more useful than the Croats?
 * Quoting from Tomasevich, all of the below (and more) is 100% ironclad:


 * "The first formal and direct agreement between the German occupation forces and the Chetniks took place in early October 1943 between the 373rd Infantry Division and a detachment of Chetniks under Mane Rokvić operating in western Bosnia and Lika. The Germans subsequently even used Chetnik troops for guard duty in occupied Split, Dubrovnik, Šibenik, and Metković. Independent State of Croatia (NDH) troops were not used, despite Ustaše demands, because mass desertions of Croat troops to the Partisans rendered them unreliable. From this point on, the German occupation actually started to "openly favor" Chetnik (Serbian) troops to the Croat formations of the NDH, due to the pro-Partisan dispositions of the Croatian rank-and-file. The Germans paid little attention to frequent Ustaše protests about this. Ustaše Bojnik Mirko Blaž (Deputy Commander, 7th Brigade of the Poglavnik's Personal Guard) observed that:


 * "The Germans are not interested in politics, they take everything from a military point of view. They need troops that can hold certain positions and clear certain areas of the Partisans. If they ask us to do it, we cannot do it. The Chetniks can. Ustaše Major Mirko Blaž, March 5, 1944"


 * When appraising the situation in western Serbia, Bosnia, Lika, and Dalmatia, Captain Merrem, intelligence officer with the German commander-in-chief southeastern Europe, was "full of praise" for Chetnik units collaborating with the Germans, and for the smooth relations between the Germans and Chetnik units on the ground.
 * In addition, the Chief of Staff of the 2nd Panzer Army observed in a letter to the Ustaše liaison officer that the Chetniks fighting the Partisans in Eastern Bosnia were "making a worthwhile contribution to the Croatian state", and that the 2nd Army "refused in principle" to accept Croatian complaints against the usage of these units."
 * -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 12:55, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Serbs in the Independent State of Croatia are were ethnic minorities. That state has pursued genocide against them. The same thing happened in Dalmatia. To avoid the complete destruction were signed agreements with local authorities (with local Croatian authorities and the German military unit). But not and with the Croatian government and the German high command. These local agreements were particularly disappointing for Croatia and the German army, because they recognized the armed formation a an national minority in Croatia, which they regarded as the enemy. On Serbs in the Nazi Croatia was carried out genocide, and they Serbs rebels are managed to prevent even more deaths (The Holocaust in Croatia). You are trying to Serbs, who were the victims to present as a Nazi and that was your work is made by propaganda on this project.

On the first your picture is the Serbian Volunteer Corps, which operates during the war only in the area of German occupation zone of Serbia. On another image are the members of Chetnik movement Kosta Pećanac, which operates only during the war in Germany occupation zone of Serbia. Both organizations had police authority. Serbs during the Second World War not had its own state and a not were allies of the Third Reich, but were one of the biggest victims of Adolph Hitler and Ante Pavelić (Jasenovac concentration camp). You twisting historical facts and serve are propaganda.--Свифт (talk) 21:52, 4 February 2011 (UTC)


 * The second image DOES NOT depict Pećanac Chetniks. That is your own personal supposition/fantasy. I know you must believe those are Pećanac Chetniks, but the rest of us are not obliged to do so. Find someone else to listen to your bias, prejudice, and petty ethnic hatred. You have displayed quite sufficiently a lack of knowledge in the subject matter, so forgive me if I do not place much stock in your "opinions". I should have simply reported you the second I read the "Croats Nazis" nonsense, I will do so if you insist on posting further such rubbish here. Wikipedia is not a forum. This ridiculous conversation, completely unrelated to the subject matter, is over. -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 21:58, 4 February 2011 (UTC)


 * This is article of Operation Halyard wich I started to edit. Which is why you have not occurred to edit this article earlier than right now? Wasting my time and do not allow me to finish the article, which concerns the Serbian and American history.--Свифт (talk) 22:23, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Frankly, I do not care about your time. You've wasted mine as well. Please continue with your work, whosever history you think it concerns. -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 22:37, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

This article is supposed to be about OSS Operation Halyard, which evacuated rescued aircrew by air, and ran from 2 August (the date Musulin parachuted into Ravna Gora) to 27 December 1944 (when Lalich evacuated from the airstrip at Boljanici). According to Lalich's report to the OSS on the mission, 417 aircrew were rescued during the mission, of which 343 were US aircrew. This article conflates all allied aircrew rescues with the assistance of the Chetniks as part of Operation Halyard, and thereby is inaccurately titled. If the article is to be about all aircrew rescues done with the assistance of the Chetniks, then it should be called that. If it is about Operaton Halyard, it needs to be limited to that mission, although a brief mention that the Chetniks assisted in other rescues would be fine. I will commence editing this down to remove the non-Operation Halyard material shortly unless there is some discussion and agreement here. My reference for the dates and number of aircrew is Tomasevich Vol 1 p.378, which quotes from Lalich's report. Peacemaker67 (talk) 02:39, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

The RYAF (Royal Yugoslav Air Force)

 * Heroes of the Skies: The Yugoslav Detachment (1942-1945)

This picture shows President Roosevelt taking part in the dedication of four B-24 Liberators that were to be operated by a unit of 40 Yugoslav airmen who had escaped the fall of Yugoslavia. These four planes flew with the 376th Bombardment Group, from bases in the Middle East.

The RYAF (Royal Yugoslav Air Force) was assigned to the 376 BG / 512 BS in Oct 43. The RYAF B-24s flew as #20 thru #23. #23 is the only one to have survived the war. 

Number 24 is now in the Wright Patterson Air Museum - Dayton, OH --Свифт (talk) 07:26, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Copyedit
This article gives the impression of a very clumsily machine-translated version. I have not copyedited some sections for fear of changing the meaning and because I didn't understand them! The standard of English is not good. The article still needs a lot of work; in some cases, just to mae it readable.

One contradiction that I noticed was in the 'Mission' section: "This operation took place between August and December 1944." But in the preceding 'The evacuation from Boljanić' section, para 4, it states: "Two C-47s lifted 25 airmen from Boljanić in late February 1945 in very cold weather. This was the last evacuation. [my emphasis] Which is it?

RASAM (talk) 21:13, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

The official mission "Halyard" lasted from August 2 to 27th to December 1944. But after that, the evacuation was carried out in February of 1945th. Also, before the U.S. airlift there was a first evacuation on 29th May 1944th with British aircraft. These two evacuations were not part of Operation Halyard. Because of all this, in the Serbian historiography the evacuation of the rescued pilot is called simply "Operation airlift".--Свифт (talk) 07:53, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Incorrect quote
This is given as a quote from a report"

The plane landed between two groups of Bulgarians from two hundred Bulgarian troops. I ordered immediately to be with 500 of our soldiers who are blocking the Bulgarians. The crew was rescued alive and well. Them are nine...

Two groups of Bulgarians from two hundred Bulgarian troops?

Them are nine... ?

If someone has the original reference, was this how it was written? If not, please correct. Thomas R. Fasulo (talk) 00:50, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Citations Needed
G'day. There is a serious lack of inline citation in this article. I thought I would just demonstrate this in the 'Rescue of American Airmen' section for starters. Anything making a serious or controversial claim (such as the killing of aircrew by Axis forces, Mihailovic demonstrating control over his commanders via orders, etc needs a source. Also, I have deleted the two operations that were linked at the bottom. They have nothing to do with Operation Halyard, and they relate to events that occurred two or three years earlier. Peacemaker67 (talk) 09:29, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * also, a pamphlet self-published by a Serbian emigre group cannot be a reliable source (except about themselves). I have tagged it as unreliable. Peacemaker67 (talk) 11:04, 7 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Thomas J. Craughwell in his book Great Rescues of World War II states on the page 155 that 512 airman were saved and tha it was the "largest and most successfull rescue of downed man in history". FkpCascais (talk) 06:05, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The number of 512 is also supported by Gregory A. Freeman ("The Forgotten 500") and Charles S. Fadis ("Beyond Repair: The Decline and Fall of the C.I.A.", pag. 100 although taken from Freeman). FkpCascais (talk) 06:13, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Tomasevich quotes Lalich's report on Operation Halyard. You'd reckon Lalich would know. Peacemaker67 (talk) 06:43, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Here's how Craughwell is described: 'Thomas J. Craughwell is the author of more than a dozen books, most recently How the Barbarian Invasions Shaped the Modern World, Failures of the Presidents, and The Rise and Fall of the Second Largest Empire in History. He has written articles on history, religion, politics, and popular cultures for the Wall Street Journal, the American Spectator, and US News & World Report.' He's not a historian, he's a popular writer who covers a lot of ground. I can't see how he's a reliable source, he's not an academic at all, and his research appears to have been reading Freeman. Fadis is just repeating Freeman. So you have Freeman. Now we just have to see what Freeman actually says about Halyard and decide if we should say there is a range of numbers between Lalich's figure quoted by Tomasevich and Freeman's figure, or whether Freeman is conflating other rescues. As far as the 'greatest rescue' is concerned, with either figure it pales alongside the total number rescued by the Partisans, and Craughwell's quote just looks like a straight lift from Freeman (verbatim in fact). So not sure what you have there. Not much. Happy to discuss exactly what's in Freeman though, and in the meantime I will amend the lede at least to show the difference of opinion about the numbers. Peacemaker67 (talk) 07:02, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Fadis actually directly cites Freeman in the book, no problem with that, I mentioned it inmediatelly. No problem, I ll bring here whatever I find. FkpCascais (talk) 08:01, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


 * the numbers in the article (unsourced) actually add up to 502 not 512. Just thought I'd mention that. Peacemaker67 (talk) 08:07, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of First air evacuation section
This section relates to the evacuation of the Armstrong mission, and has nothing to do with Operation Halyard. I'm just flagging that I will delete it shortly as not being relevant to Operation Halyard (like the non-airlift evacuations I deleted earlier). Peacemaker67 (talk) 09:12, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Could be seen as providing context or background and illustrates that flying people in and out of occupied country was entriely possible. GraemeLeggett (talk) 10:55, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I've actually retained it on the basis that it ties in with the political mission, but have trimmed it down a bit. Peacemaker67 (talk) 11:17, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

George Vujnovich
George Vujnovich died 4/24/2012 - http://news.yahoo.com/oss-agent-led-wwii-rescue-500-dies-ny-002540215.html and http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-george-vujnovich-20120501,0,992343.story  Irish Melkite (talk) 10:25, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

356 or 513?
Which is it, then? --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 16:59, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Significant disruptive editing since March, have reverted. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 04:19, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Removal of factual errors
USAF Colonel John Capello and me were researching Halyard Operation for more than six years in the United States, Serbia and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Operation Halyard was conducted by the 15th Air Force Air Crew Rescue Unit 1, OSS and Chetniks. Partisans were not involved in this particular operation (separate Air Crew Rescue Unit was attached to Partisans). Please keep daily politics, nationalistic and communistic propaganda away from this subject. Thank you.Daniel Sunter (talk) 20:17, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Please retain reliable academic sources in the article, refrain from adding primary sources and further creating POV issues with this article. I have reverted your edits as you have created a large number of further issues with your edits. Please read WP policies on use of sources, and neutrality. Thanks, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 00:11, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Halyard op: controversy section (copied from User talk:Peacemaker67)
Hello Peacemaker67! Controversy section of the Halyard Op page is unsourced, in conflict with reliable sources and contain major factual errors. Claim "Mihalović assisted the US airborne evac of about 250 from Chetnik territory in Aug 1944" is a factual error - according to Tomasevich, Ford, Leary and Freeman Mihailović assisted the US airborne evacuation Halyard from July till December. Claim "This simply meant that the Chetniks allowed the Americans to use their airstrip for the evacuation – scarcely a particularly heroic action" is also a factual error - according to Ford, Leary, Freeman there was no airstrip to be used for mass evacuation so US mission jointly with the Chetniks, 300 local Serbs (with sixty ox carts) had to clear meadow and level the terrain in order to create suitable airstrip. According to same reliable sources Serbian farmers and Chetniks fed and sheltered crash landed airmen and provided medical treatment of wounded/injured etc. Claim "Mihailovic’s Chetniks rescued German airmen and handed them over safely to the German armed forces – were he so inclined, Schroeder could follow Washington’s example" is not supported by verifiable source. What is your view on that matter? Regards, D.Daniel Sunter (talk) 15:40, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
 * G'day Daniel, I would prefer it if we had these discussions on the article talk page in front of the whole community. The whole subsection is sourced from Hoare, who was writing for the Henry Jackson Society. The document in question is available here. You are drawing implications from Hoare's words that are not there. Nowhere did he say that the Chetniks and villagers didn't make an airstrip, it is my understanding that this is pretty generally accepted. Please read the whole article, and continue this discussion on the article talk page where I have copied it. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 05:47, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello Peacemaker67, article you have posted above doesn`t exist on the HJS website. Are you implying that google docs are to be considered reliable source and suitable to contrast majority of reliable sources? I am not drawing implications. Factual conflict with majority of reliable sources (Ford, Leary, Matteson, Freeman and Tomasevich) is clear in terms of the assistance time span and degree of the assistance. According to this article Halyard Op was limited to August and Chetniks simply allowed OSS to use the airstrip. Claim of German airmen being rescued by Mihailovic`s forces is rather unique and not supported by other findings (Tomasevich, Ford, Matteson, Leary, Freeman). Controversy section doesn`t follow chronological order of the whole page - Legion of Merit was not given during the operation but in 1948. Regards, D. Daniel Sunter (talk) 18:11, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
 * As noted here, all of Hoare's work published on the HJS website was taken down after he split from the organisation and a gent called Douglas Murray was appointed to it. Hoare is an eminent academic writing on Yugoslavia and the former Yugoslavia, and published by top-end university presses. His work is reliable, is published reliably, and its inclusion is completely justified. To compare him to Freeman is insulting. I am happy to re-factor the flow of the article (which frankly needs plenty of work), but wholesale removal of the work of reliably published specialist academics is unacceptable on WP. Despite your protestations, you are reading more into it than is there, so I am wondering is English is not your first language. Peacemaker67  (send... over) 03:13, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Air Crew Rescue Unit Creation section
Is for the main part word-for-word from Leary's Fueling the Fires of Resistance. As is the last paragraph of the section "Airlift from Pranjani to Bari". Needs rewriting. GraemeLeggett (talk) 20:34, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

ONE REMAINING AIRMAN WHO WAS RESCUED BY THE OSS STILL LIVES
July 4, 2014. I just met a former POW from WWII who was one of those rescued by Operation Halyard. I was standing in line waiting to pay for my purchase at Vince's Produce in Linthicum, MD and noticed a gentleman wearing a WWII Veteran's hat with a B-24 pin attached. I thanked him for his service and we just started to talk. His daughter mentioned his capture and being POW in Yugoslavia and the fact that his name was the last name of those who were extracted. I'm sorry I didn't get his name and more info, but they did say he's in the book. What a great way, and memory, for me to have this happen today, on our Nation's celebration of our freedom!

Charlie C. MSgt Ret, USAF Vietnam 1969/1973 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.106.240.237 (talk) 21:25, 4 July 2014 (UTC)