Talk:Operetta

Genre
Operetta vs. Comic Opera or Light Opera. Operetta is considered a form of Comic Opera or Light Opera. I tried to clarify this throughout. Note that Gilbert and Sullivan always referred to their works as operas and never operettas.

In the Strauss paragraph: I'm not sure if the Offenbach reference is to Fledermaus, or to Strauss's operettas in general. I'm doing some reorganizing for (I hope) more clarity & accuracy. Herbivore 02:40, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

What are you talking about here??
This is by no means a bad article - I'd like to see the tag removed, frankly.

Gilbert and Sullivan IS English operetta - and is very often referred to as such in reference works - although it is true that they avoided the term - probably to avoid the "naughty" association with the works of Offenbach and Strauss in Victorian London. I think that to lose sight of this would bog us down in senseless semantics. In fact the word "comic opera" generally referred, in nineteeth and early twentieth century Britain, to "operetta with English lyrics". Some "comic operas" of the time (you can probably think of examples yourself) are actually closer to the then emerging form of musical comedy than to Offenbach style operetta - I can't think of a single one that is fundamentally more "operatic" that most Offenbach!! (Although this is POV of course).

Since operetta was not only a precursor of modern musicals, but has also continued to exist in paralell to the later form, with each exerting influence on the other, and many "grey area" works hovering between the two - not to mention a complex and at times difficult to pin down relationship between both operettas and musicals with opera itself, the situation IS confusing. It is NOT clear - and to say or imply that it is is NOT accurate.

In fact "simplicity" would almost certainly lead to a simplistic, and far from accurate treatment.

Soundofmusicals 08:34, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I have actually done a little re-arrangement etc. - comments welcomed!!

Soundofmusicals 08:55, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Greetings to Herbivore and Soundofmusicals
Greetings from the Opera Project to Herbivore and Soundofmusicals. Great that you have both taken an interest in this article. I wonder whether it might be possible to give us some information about yourselves on the your users page?

Regarding this article, much needs to be done. (The tag should stay until some progtress has been made.) IMO the article should be objective and not be written from the false perspective of later (English and American) forms. (The focus has to be rigorously encyclopedic.) I recommend reading Andrew Lamb in Grove. It's also essential to give sources. Good luck! - Kleinzach 14:06, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Improvements
Could part of the problem of the imbalance of this article be due to the enormous introduction before the contents? I was thinking perhaps the intro could be condensed, then further details of the distinguishing features and conventions of operettas over operas could be put into a seperate section at the top of the menu links (#1), perhaps called Distinguishing operetta from opera, or something a lot shorter and catchier, hehe...

Also, I assume it's intentional that List of operettas direct links to The opera corpus? If so, then I assume that the list of operettas link is redundant and should be removed? Le the  13:06, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Scott Joplin brief introduction
Scott Joplin was born in Linden, Texas on November 24th, 1868. He moved to Texarkana at the age of seven. That time, he was already proficient on the banjo and was beginning to play piano. When he became a teenager, the was a dance musician. After a several years, he settled in st. Louis in about 1890. There, he studied a music genre called "ragtime". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.133.56.162 (talk) 13:07, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Joplin as a composer
In 1976, Joplin got awarded for one of his compositions, 'Treemonisha', because it was the first grand opera by an African American. His ideas were all from African music. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.133.56.162 (talk) 13:18, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Operetta in Germany
I've added a subsection on operetta in Germany — that is, by German composers. I am by no mean the expert, so feel free to flesh the subsection out. Taking a look at the German Wikipedia article on Operetta may help, translated here:. You can also obtain the assistance of our German-to-English translators here on Wikipedia: -- Softlavender (talk) 02:29, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Decline
I am missing a description of the decline of the genre - but feel insufficiently competent to write such a paragraph. My scant information includes Paris premières in the 1960's...whereas I feel the genre did not survive WW2 in Germany and Austria. Names that should certainly be mentioned are Vincent Scotto and Luis Mariano, also probably Tino Rossi; but, again: I do not dispose of the information required to do this properly. Any takers? Jan olieslagers (talk) 16:42, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I notice that German Wikipedia translated here has excellent information on the decline of the genre. French Wikipedia translated here has some good stuff as well. BOTH articles have tons more info than ours does about operettas in general and in specific. Softlavender (talk) 11:13, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Operetta in Italy
Any information on operetta in Italy? My impression is that (serious) opera remained so popular there, even into the 20th century, that operetta never took root, strange though it seems in this generally frivolous country. Jan olieslagers (talk) 16:42, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I see only two listings in Category:Italian-language operettas. I went through every article categorized as an Operetta, and these are the only two in Italian. Softlavender (talk) 10:09, 17 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Update: If you go to our article and click "Italiano" on the left-hand column, it takes you to the Italian article. They only list five Italian-language operettas, and one of them doesn't have an article. Softlavender (talk) 04:07, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Austrian section needs expansion
There's a lot missing in the Austrian section -- after all, Vienna is almost synonymous with operetta. And the over-emphasis on Strauss is misleading. Lehár and von Suppé are equally as important. Also, the section needs to delineate the complete history of Viennese operetta, including the Gold and Silver eras, etc. Softlavender (talk) 07:07, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Operetta in English
Anyone who knows me will know I love Arthur Sullivan. Indeed, I'm going to be in the chorus of The Yeomen of the Guard next month. But nonetheless, I have to question the idea that operetta in English definitely can be dated to Sullivan's early works in the genre.

Quite simply, I think we face a linguistics problem with doing that: What about something like The Recruiting Serjeant? Oh, it wasn't called an operetta, but then, Gilbert and Sullivan called their works "comic operas", so we can't just go by name here. Adam Cuerden (talk) 06:59, 11 February 2013 (UTC)