Talk:Opus Dei and Catholic Church leaders

[Untitled]
Members of Opus Dei should not be listed in this article (that would be an article: Member testimonies) - I'll move them here, for the moment, maybe the statements can be used in other articles. --Irmgard 21:23, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Virginia McCaskey, Chicago Bears owner: “As a cooperator of Opus Dei, I have learned that everything I do in my life is to be sanctified and dedicated to God. To support that endeavor I have the invaluable assistance of monthly circle meetings and mornings of recollection, bi-weekly chats with a friend for spiritual advice and confession to a priest who knows me by my first name, daily norms of piety, an expanded wealth of spiritual literature and friends who enrich my life with their prayers and loving concern. All these are my favorite things.” Statement, January 9, 2004.

Cardinal Nicolás de Jesús López, archbishop of Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic. Primada de América Cathedral, Santo Domingo, January 7. "Blessed Josemaría is a man who dared to challenge the world. He proposed holiness —as he said— in the street and for the people of the street, that is to say the people who toil every day in the world, in business, in politics, in the economy, in academia, etc. Therefore he was certainly a man who drew guidelines that I would hope many others can follow day by day."

Bishop Joseph Fiorenza (Galveston-Houston): “I have been associated with Opus Dei for twenty years and can testify that the priests and members are fully dedicated to living the gospel by integrating its message into their daily work. They incarnate the universal call to holiness in their teaching and pastoral care. Their mission is to help those whom they serve to live holy and faith-filled lives. The Opus Dei priests and members are faithful to the teachings of the Church and to the Popes and Bishops. Their fidelity is a strength for the Church but at times is viewed as negative and suspicious by those who do not understand such fidelity to God and the Church. The Diocese of Galveston-Houston is blessed to have Opus Dei staff our downtown chapel and minister to the workforce and shoppers in that area. Their work is well-received and greatly appreciated.” December 29, 2003.

George Weigel, American conservative author, Roman Catholic theologian and political and social activist
 * “Opus Dei's intention is to take very seriously Vatican II's call to lay people to be sanctifiers of the world.” From “Fast-track sainthood,” Frances D'Emilio, Associated Press, March 16, 2002.

Move to wikiquote
The first section seems encyclopedic. The rest should be moved to Opus Dei. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminant collection of quotations or any other unassimilated primary source. Any objections? savidan(talk) (e@) 02:46, 16 April 2006 (UTC)


 * You are right.--Heavyrock 09:04, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I've done what was requested in the template, to make it more encyclopedic. I hope this is ok. I intend to come back later to keep on improving it. Thanks. Thomas S. Major 05:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Your changes, although an improvement, do not really solve the main problem that I have with this article. The lengthy list of endorsements of Opus Dei from church leaders as well as the lengthy list of criticisms should be moved to wikiquote. This should be an article about Opus Dei and the Catholic Church. In this case it may be better to find secondary-type sources which describe the overall level and nature of support and criticism from members of the catholic church, perhaps quoting a few people who are particularly important or notable. For example, if a particular statement by a pope has come to define church policy towards opus dei. I don't know enough about the subject to sort through these, but I know that the current format is inadeqate. Just to clarify, my proposed move does not apply to the entire article, only the lenghty lists of unincorporated quotes. savidan(talk) (e@) 19:18, 11 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok. I intend to reorganize the quotes according to topics: significance, criticisms, benefits, sanctity, or whatever common denominators I can find. Just give me time. Thanks. Thomas S. Major 09:33, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Move to Support for Opus Dei
I notice that both Opus Dei and Catholic Church leaders and Opus Dei and civil leaders include long lists of supportive quotations from a variety of people. I also notice that both are candidates for having thier content moved to Wikiquote, and that there's some question of whether the articles are encyclopedic enough. Mightn't it help if we merged the two article and called them something like "Support for Opus Dei"? this way, we don't have to get into the NPOV issues raised by the complete lack of any critical quotes from civil leaders-- if the page is titled Support for Opus Dei, then we don't have to cover any criticisms in that page. Just a thought. --Alecmconroy 10:59, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Moved to Wikiquote
I moved the long list of quotations from Opus Dei and Catholic Church leaders and Opus Dei and civil leaders to Opus Dei. Obviously, my removal of all of the quotes from the two wikipedia article in no way implies that I think it's inappropriate to copy a few of the most salient quotes back into the articles as needed to support the prose that will eventually occupy this page. --Alecmconroy 10:51, 25 June 2006 (UTC)


 * But what about the remaining "skeleton" article (its flesh is gone) ? --Túrelio 12:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)


 * As discussed above by savidan, we could try to construct an article on this subject that isn't just a long list of quotes (while of course, drawing upon those quotes as one potential source for said article). If there isn't enought material to suppport a whole article on this subject, then we nominate it for Articles for Deletion.


 * I personally feel that Opus Dei and Catholic Church leaders, Opus Dei and civil leaders,Opus Dei: Responses to Cult Accusations and Opposition to Opus Dei should all be merged into one article entitled Support and Criticism for Opus Dei or something like that. Article Sub-page structure should be one of the minor issues in mediation, once the bigger issues have been worked out. --Alecmconroy 14:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Can stand on its own
I reversed a Redirect done by Alec because this article can stand on its own and has high notability. As per our discussion, Badlydrawnjeff and I believe the article can stand on its own. Lafem 07:17, 20 March 2007 (UTC)