Talk:Orange (colour)/Archive 1

American or Canadian??
Note: This article has been stable at "Orange (colour)" for a long time. Recently, somebody performed a move (a bad one - copy and paste, without talk page history) and Americanized the article. Don't do that! It's a no no. Moves need a good reason and need to be discussed. Wikipedia accepts both Commonwealth and U.S. English. 202.32.53.38 13:00, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The UK spelling of colour (instead of US "color") is used throughout this page whereas Brown uses the US spelling.

Which is correct or are both allowed? --Danhuby 13:52, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * Obviously neither is "correct", and it is not possible to impose one standard because wikipedians are from all countries. We usually try to have a consistent spelling within each article. Arvindn 14:04, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Ouch, I fell for the numbers someone left here (255, 83, 0), hmph, I have to be more careful. It's getting late though, I'll leave it till tomorrow, the color *is* orangish at least. Kim Bruning 23:01, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The colour of the orange block on the page is actually (255, 165, 0) which looks like a much better orange. --Dan Huby 14:57, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

"Color" is the American spelling of the word; "colour" is the Canadian spelling. In deciding which spelling to use, how is it decided?? 66.245.97.44 23:30, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * As pointed out elsewhere in this page, either American and British spelling is correct, and both usages are ok. However, it's preferred to be consistent in an article. Whenever I find an article that uses words like colo(u)r inconsistent, I run a little Perl script that fetches the page and tallies the use of American vs British spelling - I then change the minority to adjust to the majority. In case of a tie, I change to British spelling. Abigail 23:38, Apr 28, 2004 (UTC)


 * Well, the United States has about 9 times asn many people as Canada, so I think that American spellings should be better.
 * But it's not only Canada that spells it that way... –Hajor
 * Yes, I know that; it is also Australia, which has even fewer people, only about 1/15 the population of the United States. 66.245.97.44 00:08, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * India, with a population of over a billion people, about 3.5 times as many as the US, has English as one of its official languages. They use 'colour' as well. Of course, number of inhabitants doesn't play a role. Please read Manual_of_Style. Abigail 08:55, Apr 29, 2004 (UTC)
 * silly fools wasting their time to type that extra 'u'...how pitiful! --Jiang 09:32, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Ridiculous Yanks, omitting the letter that defines its correct pronunciation...quite laughable! Lee M 18:58, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Yankees aren't the only ones who omit the u, Southerners and Westerners omit it as well (note: anyone visitting the southern or western US would be well advised, for the sake of one's continued health, not to refer to the locals as 'Yanks'). Additionally, the reason Americans are often annoyed by the colour spelling is that to American eyes, it suggests a wildly different pronunciation (kuh-lou-r, with 'lou' sounding like the Brittish colloquial name for a toilet, or to rhyme with 'you', followed by a rhotic 'r').  And let's be honest, if any of us spelled the word the way it were pronounced, we'd all be spelling it something like 'kuller'. --Corvun 08:14, August 20, 2005 (UTC)


 * Annoyed? Prefer your language? So do I. Create a redirect. Problem solved. &mdash; Xiong &#29066; talk * 10:42, 2005 August 20 (UTC)


 * I didn't say I was annoyed by it. I used to be, but I got used to it.  Most eventually do.  I was merely attempting to explain the reason, or part of the reason, why it may be bothersome to some Americans; it might take a while to desensatize oneself to a spelling that at first glance seems to suggest an awkward pronunciation.  The redirect is just an all-around good idea for words that have different spellings, whether said different spellings are the result of dialectical differences or not.  --Corvun 00:18, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Using "color" instead of "colour" would save bandwidth. Also, there are more oranges grown in the USA than elsewhere, right?

entomology? 
Where did the name of the color come from? Do we know?

--Duemellon 19:59, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * You're looking for etymology, the study of words' origins; entomology is the study of insects. HTH, [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 20:01, 2004 Aug 10 (UTC)

Old French orenge entered Middle English as orange in the 13th century. The Old French is believed to have come, by an indirect route, from Arabic naranj, which is from a Persian, Sanskrit or Hindi word. Wild oranges originally came from northern India. The initial n in naranj was probably lost by absorption into the indefinite article in one of the Romance languages such as Italian (where it was originally una narancia). [OED] -- Heron 20:38, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Complementary color
By the traditional definition of a complementary color (see the information on painting) Orange is the complement of Blue. Unfortunately there is no wikipedia color wheel article as of right now, but there are some good websites on the traditional color wheel (try http://www.saumag.edu/art/studio/chalkboard/c-wheel.html and http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/TEACH/floral/color.htm ) where you can see what our complementary color article is talking about. -- Logotu 14:29, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * By all means let's have a traditional colour wheel, but for balance we should also have a modern colour wheel (like this) showing the more accurate colours now used in printing and computer graphics. -- Heron 14:53, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * I just created a color wheel article; although it is a stub. If you know of anything to put in it, feel free to update it. 66.245.70.139 23:02, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Bad News
A while ago, someone created articles that are meant to be for the color that point to the fruit. (That is, they are links to Orange (fruit). This is ridiculous! Can we have any comments about moving this article to Orange?? Two important notes about this move are:


 * 1) The article of Orange (fruit) will not change, and
 * 2) The dis-ambiguation page can be named Orange (disambiguation)

Anything that can become more difficult this way?? Please explain. 66.245.84.194 01:01, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

How come International Orange doesn't look orange?
Maybe it's just me, but for the life of me I can't see a smidgen of yellow in "international orange". If anyone asks me the color of the Golden Gate Bridge I will place my hand on my heart and say "it's red, Your Honor!" Lee M 19:03, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Requested move: June 2005
Orange (colour) to Orange (color) --WikiFan04ß 00:04, 21 Jun 2005 (CDT)

Voting closed

--Tony Sidaway|Talk 28 June 2005 11:33 (UTC)
 * Oppose. National spellings, and primary Author. Philip Baird Shearer 16:20, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose. With kudos to PBS for bureaucratizing an improperly formatted request he doesn't agree with. –Hajor 16:29, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Strongly oppose. Moving it would be saying to the original author that his choice of spelling is wrong, and would lead to the kind of fight that followed when Yogurt was moved to Yoghurt. Jonathunder 01:19, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)
 * Oppose as per Philip. Grace Note 03:03, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose --Kiand 03:11, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose. No reason given for proposed move. &mdash; Knowledge Seeker &#2470; 07:55, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) Withdrawing vote in light of comments below. &mdash; Knowledge Seeker &#2470; 03:13, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose, given that the original author chose "colour". James F. (talk) 10:18, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose &mdash;Michael Z. 2005-06-23 16:57 Z 
 * Support, to agree with spelling of color article, and because others are misapplying first major contributor (not a stub) rule&mdash;see further discussion below. Gene Nygaard 17:33, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Support, for consistency in all other color articles, including the infobox. MH 12:08, 2005 Jun 24 (UTC)
 * Support, for consitency with the article itself, and other color articles--Fantrl 15:38, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose The fact that Color uses that spelling is no argument at all.Arcturus 11:59, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I don't see the point of moving it now. Although I tend to use the Webster spelling myself, the other spelling is nearly universal outside the USA, and is just as acceptable.
 * STRONGLY oppose -- [[Image:Flag of Canada.svg|20px]] Earl Andrew - talk 4 July 2005 06:16 (UTC)
 * STRONGLY support -- to agree with the other articles on color, and because colour looks to suggest an awkward pronunciation (think of the name Lou, or the word you). --Corvun 08:25, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Let's move all the other colors to colour instead. Tree&Leaf

Discussion
First version used both spellings 13 Aug 2002 While still a stub most of the spellings were changed to "colour". It was made consistently colour throughout on 15 Feb 2004. -- Philip Baird Shearer 16:47, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * We could always call it Orange (hue). ;-) SlimVirgin (talk) 04:05, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)


 * That is a sensible alternative. Gene Nygaard 17:33, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Furthermore, all versions as a stub used both "color" and "colour" spellings. Additions by the "first major contributor (that is, not a stub) to the article", which is the applicable guideline in the MoS used the color spelling. In addition, that first major contributor (not a stub) is a last-resort rule. A sensible rule would not be a last resort but rather something that always applies, but what it would give to the first major contributor is the placing of the burden of proof on those seeking a change to get consensus for it, but that isn't the way the guidelines are currently written. As it is now, that first major contributor rule only applies "if all else fails". Gene Nygaard 17:33, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Other color articles which are not named with just the color name itself include these, just a sampling:
 * Silver (color)
 * Maroon (color)
 * Fuchsia (color)
 * Lime (color)

Then there are articles like these: A rare exception is political colour. Gene Nygaard 12:33, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Web colors
 * Color theory
 * Color temperature
 * List of colors
 * and Sporting Colours, fot UK universities. MH 15:23, 2005 Jun 24 (UTC)

Most of Wikipedia already uses American spelling so there's a good case for having things evened out a bit. In any case, its been colour for a while, so leave it alone - and while we're on it; someone changed Green to color with no discussion whatsoever, even though the original author User:Zundark used colour. Arcturus 11:59, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * No, Zundark created a stub under Green (which probably never has had either color or colour in its title; it doesn't now, in any case), using the word once with the "colour" spelling. That is not the what the guidelines say. The standard is "first major contributor (that is, not a stub) to the article". But when I look at the history, it also shows "earlier" edits with a later date.  There must also be a later time when some meanings were moved to a disambiguation page.
 * Of course, those of us familiar with American spelling often think that most of Wikipedia uses some other spelling. What any of us notice most is the unfamiliar, not the familiar. Gene Nygaard 16:21, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * A couple of points; unfortunately I've introduced the spelling within the text into this debate - my mistake. Green has always been titled just that. However, my second point is about the text - and yes I know we should be talking orange here but - Green never was a stub. The article has just grown from a reasonably substantial beginning by Zundark in Oct 2001. Five months later User:Damian Yerrick took it upon himself to change colour to color while adding a few extra bits of information. Yerrick is not the first substantial contributor. He changed it because presumably he preferred color. I go back to my original point: Green started off as colour and it was changed at some arbitrary point just out of preference; it should not have been. I am quite happy to stick with originals. See my edits at Scarlet (color). I have not changed this to colour in the text or the title even though I prefer the British English spelling. Most colour articles use the color variant. Give us a break! Leave just a few with British English, including Green and Orange. Now I'm off to check Cream (colour) to see if someone's doctored that as well. Arcturus 16:42, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * No - not yet! Arcturus 16:43, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Zundark's green was a stub. Only four sentences, a color swatch, plus five items in a usage or disambiguation list of word combinations. 134.132.115.xxx added the "color" spelling in describing one of the word combinations, when it was still a stub. Damian Yerrick may have been the first major contributor, but it was still pretty flimsy; until then it remained a list of a few terms containing green with only a little about the color itself. When Yerrick edited it, he did not "change" anything, but made consistent an article with two "colour" spellings and three "color" spellings before those edits, and six "color" spellings afterwards . Gene Nygaard 18:20, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * I do not really care if it's color or colour, as long as it is used consistently in all colo(u)r articles. The thing is; apart from regional differences, in general I do not hear the difference in pronunciation of color and colour (and harbor and harbour etc), so why use the redundant letter 'u' at all? MH June 28, 2005 11:10 (UTC)

The thing is every other color article uses the American spelling. We might as well be uniform. --Fantrl 14:18, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Well almost all of them. I wonder why? It turns out that Blue, Green and Orange all started off as colour. Yellow, Red and Indigo started as color and I haven't bothered checking all the others; no doubt someone will. None of the ones I've checked were tagged as stubs and they commenced with a reasonable amount of text. I wonder whether I might change the whole lot, and Color and everything else associated with this subject, to colour. Any comments? Arcturus 16:18, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * As was pointed out above, the first version of this article used both spellings. I see "color" twice and "colour" once in the three sentences (clearly a stub) in the earliest entry in the history of this article, and the "history" special page doesn't show us what the title was at the time.  The earliest version, however, is the one which appears in the history of the Orange (disambiguation) page, from which this article was split out, going back to 15 Dec 2001, and using "color" once (linked, so even assuming piping to other spelling was available then, the editor may not have been aware of how to do it) and "colour" twice.


 * Whether or not an article is "tagged" as a stub is mostly irrelevant to the question of whether or not it is a stub. Especially in that time frame, before all the categorized stubs were in use, before many of the tools for identifying possible stubs were in use, and before a concerted effort to identify them had been made.  Especially since the history page for that Stub article only goes back to 5 Oct 2002, after the first entries related to the color orange.  But in any case, many stubs even now exist for a considerable length of time without being tagged as a stub, and many articles retain the stub tag after they are no longer stubs.  Of course, there are always gray areas where reasonable people may disagree on whether or not it is a stub in any case.  Gene Nygaard 17:51, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There is no point in moving this article to Orange (color) because that article is currently a redirect to this article! If it is moved, all you'll be doing is switching them round.... - Supersaiyanplough|(talk) 9 July 2005 03:48 (UTC)

Decision
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. violet/riga (t) 10:14, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Idduno about the rest of the world...
I americanized all spellings. Come on guys, its common sense. Idduno about the rest of the world, but we americans do things democratically. By far, the number of wikipedians on here are american. Also, the majority of english speakers around the world speak correct American english. SUPPORT OUR TROOPS! []

I just changed them back. While I personally use American spellings, there is no good way to decide on which style of spelling to use. Therefore, on Wikipedia, the following method is used: if the article is about a topic that is clearly American or clearly British (or clearly Australian, and so on), like Abraham Lincoln, that spelling is used. In the absence of such an affiliation, the style in which the first major contributor wrote is followed. Neither American nor British English is "correct"; both have evolved considerably from their ancient roots. &mdash; Knowledge Seeker &#2470; 04:20, 21 July 2005 (UTC)


 * User 132.198.250.179 - I hope you are not representative of your fellow Americans. If you are, it's no wonder that anti-Americanism is growing across the world. As knowledge-seeker pointed out, we should adopt the spelling preference of the first major contributor, but it's not always easy to identify such a contributor. Having looked through all the colour articles it seems to me that in addition to Orange, Green and Blue should use British English, or at least should using the 'u' spelling for colour (the first major contributor might have been NZ or something). I propose to change these, if only to achieve a degree of balance in the articles as a whole. Arcturus 16:22, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Request Move October 2005
Talk:Orange (colour)/Archived_move_request_October_2005