Talk:Orangutan/Archive 2

Male bimaturism isn't included
There seems to be no mention of sexual dimorphism in orangutans (Utami et al, 2002). This is an important and interesting part of orangutan reproduction. Some males become flanged as they become adults whilst some males remain unflanged. This has implications, especially with the subject of forced copulation.

Flanged males are preferred by females. Unflanged males are shunned by females and tend to force copulation. Flanged Bornean males are known to force copulation whereas it is rare in Sumatrans (Delgado & van Schaik, 2000).

Guillaumefeldman (talk) 19:24, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * This has been included. - UtherSRG (talk) 08:06, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Orangutang prostitute
I just read about this, should it be added to the article? http://www.vice.com/read/yo1-v14n10 It is pretty nauseating, but there is already a section on sexual relations with humans. FunkMonk (talk) 08:32, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * That's a humor site, not a serious one.  D r e a m Focus  08:58, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Not at all, I first heard about the episode in a Danish documentary about an Orangutang sanctuary (Which can be seen here http://www.dr.dk/Dokumentar/gammel_struktur/tv/DR1/2007/0613144332.htm), and you can see video of the rescue here at 12:45: http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=Qv8NlidN2wg The woman talking is Lone Drøscher Nielsen. It's hard to find sources in English, but here's one in Danish: http://sondagsavisen.dk/2009/47/mor-for-600-orangutanger.aspx Vice (magazine) is simply one of the few English-language outlets that has covered it. FunkMonk (talk) 09:02, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * 13:07 is when that part of the video shows it. It says "lots of small villages have prostitution in karaoke joints," and that this one had a single orangutan in it.  It doesn't say its common everywhere though.   D r e a m Focus  09:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The Danish site I looked at through Google translator, and its just that one orangutan again. You have people caught humping dogs but you don't put it in the dog article.  There doesn't seem to be any large trade in orangutan sex slaves.   D r e a m Focus  09:34, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I didn't want to imply it had happened in anything but that case. But you're right, my complete bafflement made me overlook the quite valid point about the dog. FunkMonk (talk) 09:45, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Type species in taxobox
Hi. I'm puzzled by the name "Pongo borneo" in the taxobox: this is a synonym of P. pygmaeus. Shouldn't we use one of the two modern species names? SP-KP (talk) 10:12, 27 November 2011 (UTC)


 * The type species is fixed when assigned, and is not updated thereafter. If it's a synonym of some other species, then it makes sense to link it in the article to the current name, but it shouldn't be altered to reflect modern taxonomy (ICZN: Article 67.1.2). Often the type species doesn't even appear to be in the genus it typifies – e.g. the type species of Nephrops is "Cancer norvegicus". --Stemonitis (talk) 18:16, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

OK, thanks. That makes sense, although it throws up two further questions 1. The (original, single species of) Orang-utan was called Simia pygmaeus, named as such by Linnaeus in 1760, then along came Lacepede in 1799 and erected the genus Pongo for it. Why did he rename the species Pongo borneo rather than just using the pre-existing name pygmaeus? 2. How can Cancer norvegicus be the type species of Nephrops? When Nephrops was erected, surely it has to be typified by a species which was in Nephrops? SP-KP (talk) 19:16, 27 November 2011 (UTC)


 * To your first question, I have no good answer. The Principle of Priority was only formalised relatively recently, so it may well be that Lacépède simply thought P. borneo would be a better name for some reason. Linnaeus originally called it "Homo pygmaeus"; perhaps Lacépède thought it didn't make sense to call it something equating to "dwarf orang-utan" when it isn't particularly small for an orang-utan. If you can get hold of his original work, it may explain his thinking. Concerning the second question, I think I understand the situation. Cancer norvegicus is a species in Nephrops; "Cancer norvegicus" and "Nephrops norvegicus" are different names, but attached to the same type, so they must refer to the same taxon. When placed in Nephrops, the valid taxon for that taxon is Nephrops norvegicus, but it was originally described as "Cancer norvegicus". When designating a type species, you are ultimately referring to a specimen, often through the existing literature; in this case, the reference is to the species originally described by Linnaeus as "Cancer norvegicus", and whatever its type specimen may be (or may turn out to be – the type was only assigned much later in this case). Biological nomenclature is baffling, and the more you learn about it, the more baffling it becomes. Don't worry if it seems incomprehensible; it is! --Stemonitis (talk) 19:42, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Linnaeus named it Simia satyrus, not Simia pygmaeus. Edwards used the specific epithet pygmaeus.Atla5Atla5 (talk) 10:47, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

FIX the Orangutans and Human section already!
It's complete vandalism, all this talk of orangutans raping humans has gone on enough. Fix it already! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MassiveForehead (talk • contribs) 05:28, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It has sources, there is no doubt this has happened.   D r e a m Focus  07:50, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, sources are given but whether it happened is another matter. One of the sources (hardly a reliable one) actually says "This [i.e. rape] was almost the fate of Julia Roberts when she made a documentary at Camp Leakey in 1996. One male took a shine to her and grabbed her as she walked along a path. Luckily, a film crew was present, though it took five men to free her from the ape’s grasp." No evidence that the orangutan was sexually attracted to Julia Roberts is given; it's an assumption made by Carole Jahme, the reporter. Peter coxhead (talk) 14:57, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That is a reliable source. You can't ignore major news sources because you don't like what the reporters say.  And I've seen this video clip on YouTube.  That is what happened, and Julia Roberts herself said that's what happened.  I see one clip which has French spoken after and over the English words.   Anyway, check around if you want to see it for yourself.   D r e a m Focus  17:37, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * What is the evidence that the orangutan attempted to "rape" Julia Roberts? That it grabbed hold of her is clear; the rest is interpretation without any evidence that I have seen. Peter coxhead (talk) 18:01, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It says Male orangutans have been known to display sexual attraction to human women to the point of rape. The cook of noted primatologist Birutė Galdikas was raped by an orangutan.[24] An orangutan tried to have sex with actress Julia Roberts but was prevented by a film crew.[25] See? It tried to have sex with her, she saying that in the documentary, as do various reliable sources.  It certainly wasn't consensual.    D r e a m Focus  20:13, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * So, the source says "One male took a shine to her and grabbed her as she walked along a path". What's with the "took a shine to her" language? That's pure interpretation. The one seeming fact there is that it "grabbed her as she walked along a path". It didn't rape her. We cannot know its intentions, or its motivations. I suggest that there's far too much synthesis here. HiLo48 (talk) 20:59, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I think the article needs to be reported more neutrally; I see no evidence in http://www.salon.com/2001/08/23/primates/singleton/ or the video that the orangutan tried to "rape" Julia Roberts, although I do see that this reporter claims that it did. However she also writes "Male orangutans ... have been known to rape the women studying them (Galdikas' cook was raped)." Galdikas was the person studying orangutans, not her cook; the logic of the sentence is faulty. The Wrangham & Peterson (1996) book seems to be a different matter; I'd like to see it though. Peter coxhead (talk) 22:32, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Many books cover the event. Here are 59 book results from Google book search. Native people warn about this, and a famed researcher studying them had her cook raped by one.   D r e a m Focus  04:14, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The great majority of the references you have found with this search do NOT cover the event of Galdikas' cook being raped by an orangutan. They just contain the words you searched for in separate sentences. By the way, I'm not disputing this claim; it's just that I haven't seen the original book. The general principle is that "exceptional claims need exceptional evidence". Peter coxhead (talk) 09:36, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Walking with the Great Apes: Jane Goodall, Dian Fossey, Biruté ... - Page 151 "Years later a wild adult male orangutan came into her camp and raped a female Indonesian cook." Says that in the summary of the first link. The second link you just click on it and it loads up mentioning that that incident.  The third link mentions the incident in the summary that appears.  I see two book results which quote what the famed researcher said in her own words about the event.  She ignored the locals warning that this sort of thing happened, and then witnessed it first hand herself.   D r e a m Focus  09:45, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

I repeat that I'm not disputing the claim and whether it should be mentioned in the article. However, note that the fact that different sources repeat the same original claim doesn't add anything to the evidence. There is one claim, originating with Galdikas, that her cook was raped, which is repeated elsewhere. It may also be relevant that this appears not to have been a fully wild orangutan but one which was very accustomed to humans. Peter coxhead (talk) 10:59, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Both of you are missing the point: how can wikipedia moderators, be they vandals or long time contributors, simply decide to label an entire species as potential rapists (and go even further to assert some kind of certainty as to their universal attraction to human women) based on the behavior of one individual as reported by one person in a completely non-scientific forum? Even if the story is true and the reporter's wild interpretations are perfectly accurate, it was a freak incident which has never been repeated. The Julia Roberts story was sensationalized and very likely nothing more than it appeared. Captive primates grab at their handlers and tourists all the time, both male and female. Rape only entered the picture because the person being "assaulted" happened to be a major sex symbol.

The second part of this section is a perfect example of the type of garbage that hurts this website and yet is zealously protected and/or argued over by the innumerable groups of idealogical extremists (who somehow seem to make up 99% of the active editors) and are doing their best to tear apart every article that is even remotely controversial. Wikipedia needs less TALK and more ACTION! Begin by SCRAPPING this JUNK.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.83.30.92 (talk) 01:30, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

To resolve this dispute, I suggest that we mention in the article that the reports of orangutan having sexual interests in humans are only claims. Due to lack of hard evidence, these claims are perhaps hoaxes, such as the Loch Ness Monster. --Futuretrillionaire 22:22, 2 July 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Futuretrillionaire (talk • contribs)

Please remove the negatively loaded word 'rape' at least. Animals don't rape, if something like this has ever happened at all. It is like calling a tiger that kills a human a murderer. It is also an insult to anyone who has ever been subject to such crimes. I suggest you follow the example of the dolphin article: Dolphin46.162.102.68 (talk) 15:25, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Animals don't rape? Are you serious?  Rape is dependent on the victim's perception, not the attacker. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:28, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * No it is not, a crime requires intent, Mens_rea. Or maybe you think you can be raped by a pillow as well? Animals do not rape and murder. Please fix this, it is unworthy of a Wikipedia article.46.162.102.68 (talk) 15:40, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Pillows don't have sex, orangutans do. Orangutans can intend to have sex with someone without their consent. That is rape. Legal floundering based on laws concerning what humans can be charged with does not change that. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:47, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Since you are unable to debate using a civil tone I see no point in continuing this discussion with you. I hope someone else will consider wording this in the same manner as the dolphin article mentioned earlier. 46.162.102.68 (talk) 16:00, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Pointing out flaws in your argument is not incivility. Ian.thomson (talk) 16:03, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No we can agree on that much at least.46.162.102.68 (talk) 16:06, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

The only incivility shown today is the hostile tone in the messages of the anonymous user (46.162.102.68). Please tone it down and definitely don't escalate. In regards to this issue, I have seen literature refer to forced copulation by animals as "rape", so although it is often defined in legal terms, it technically means forced copulation. By that definition, animals do rape (and humans are animals). The wording in the dolphin article is good, but too ambiguous for this article. Being the zoo keeper type myself, I've had many animals "behave sexually towards me", particularly birds. However, none of them forcefully copulated with me—they were all sexual displays. In the cases discussed in this article, a male orangutan forcefully copulates with a human female, despite her protests. In this case, the word "rape" is appropriate. I will rephrase things slightly. Hopefully that will be an acceptable compromise. – Maky  « talk » 20:44, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, where I am from "Are you serious?" and "Legal floundering" is not considered civil nor constructive debating technique. And I assure you I had no intention of escalating which is why I ended that discussion.
 * I think calling animal sexual behaviour rape is unfortunate anthropomorphizing and moralizing over animal (non-human if you prefer) behaviour. Would you say you have been sexually abused/assaulted by your birds. Are humans regularly raped by dogs when they hump against somebody's leg. Animals have no concept of consent as far as we know and they certainly have no understanding of human morals/culture. Also the mention of the Julia Roberts incident is ridiculous (have you seen the video, there is no evidence of sexual intentions) and the reporter is hardly an authority on the subject so I think it should be removed if this is intended to be an encyclopaedia article. 46.162.102.68 (talk) 15:52, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I find your arguments a little bizarre, only because I'm sure you would drop this argument if we applied it to a situation where a human female willingly copulated with her unneutered, willing dog. (That's considered animal abuse.)  But morality is a tangential issue here.  Maunus has a good point below, and given the better source, I agree that the section could be re-written.  Either Maunus can do it, or I'll try to find time over the next few days.  (I'm far too busy today.) –  Maky  « talk » 17:24, 9 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I think the anecdotes are not likely to be relevant per WP:Weight. If you can show that they figure in scholarly works describing orangutan behavior, I might be convinced otherwise - but I doubt that is possible. I think that the mention is seems likely to simply perpetuate a harmful myth about orangutans, and detract attention to the fact that humans are a much larger threat to Orangutans (also in terms of physical and sexual abuse) than they are to humans. I am in favor of removing the sentences. ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:30, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, I retract that based on this. It seems it should be in the article, but rewritten to show that it is a persitant myth and that it may be explained by species identity issues in ape raised in captivity.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:37, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * FYI, I never saw this material as "perpetuating a harmful myth" or "detracting attention" from the harm humans inflict upon the species. First, forced copulation is seen in nature in a variety of species.  I've seen very popular nature documentaries discuss it with numerous species, even noting how sometimes the female is killed by the male's sexual aggression.  (One species that comes to mind is elephant seals.)  The fact that a close relative of ours can take an interest in us and exhibit that same behavior (seen in the wild) is worthy of mention in an encyclopedia.  Otherwise the article spends considerably more time on the species' conservation status and conservation concerns.  Please remember that I spend considerable time writing about primates and primate conservation on Wikipedia, so please be a little more considerate before making accusations.  I did the GAN review of this article, and rather than failing it, I worked with the author to help improve it considerably.  No, it's not perfect, and hence why it is rated as a "good article", not a "featured article". –  Maky  « talk » 17:24, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think I have been inconsiderate to you - I was talking about the article not about you - I don't care who wrote it or improved it, nor do I expect the article to be flawless. Of course your work is appreciated - stating that it can be improved is not an attack on you or a denial of your capabilities as an editor, scholar or reviewer. Please don't make this a personal issue when it is not. 'I do think that stories about great apes raping human women are a harmful myth that perpetuates a stereotypical image of apes. Yes orangutans practice forced copulations - but they do so with other orangutans, and the only semisubstantiated report of it happening with a human was a captive animal.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 18:09, 9 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I hope User:Futuretrillionaire doesn't want to apply the same standards of evidence in human/human rape cases, since apparently he believes video recordings are required. However, descriptions of animal behavior in the wild generally relies on eyewitness reports from reliable trained observers, since not all events can be photographically demonstrated. The article clearly shows that this is such a report, since it does not say that the event has been documented.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 19:21, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Galdikas' report describes an unusual event, so I assume that an increased level of skepticism is necessary when presenting her report. This sentence kinda bugs me: "This orangutan however was raised in captivity and may have suffered from a skewed species identity, and forced copulation is a standard mating strategy for low ranking male orangutans", because it assumes that event actually occurred. In reality we really don't know if it occurred or not. It's possible that Galdikas made it up. I got the sense from reading the paragraph that it was biased towards "actually happening" rather than being neutral (not sure if that actually happened or not). I think the ethological procedures for providing "evidence" is rather a red herring in this case. I just feel the paragraph is a little biased, which is bothering me a little, and that a little skepticism is needed. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 19:40, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
 * There is no reason to distrust the worlds foremost authority on Orangutan behavior who has nothing to gain by making up the story. That makes no sense. The sentence has to be biased towards the event taking palace because no scholar has expressed any disbelief in her report, but rather several ethologists (Richard Wrangham and Carel van Schaick) have reported it as an event that actually occured. We do not need to second guess the main authorities on great ape behavior.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 20:05, 16 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I concur with Maunus. They're not going to do vaginal swabs or file a police report.  It is also well known—by anyone who works with exotic animals—that confused sexual identity and sexual behavior happen.  Also, all apes (except gorillas) are highly sexual.  I would defer to the authority, who, if anything, would be more likely to cover it up.  I consider Galdikas' to be a legit documentation of the event. –  Maky  « talk » 07:21, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Too many people commenting here are making their own judgements, which is not appropriate. I'd like to remind everyone that the right questions to ask are: Peter coxhead (talk) 11:16, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Is what is written in the article based on reliable sources? (The answer is surely "yes".)
 * Does what is written give undue prominence to this topic? (I think that as of now the answer is "no".)
 * Does what is written accurately reflect the sources? For those I can check, it does, but there is one issue: the phrase "but undocumented" isn't directly derived from the given source (Wrangham & Dale, 1996); it seems to be an editorial insertion. If it can't be directly sourced, it should be removed. More generally, Wrangham & Dale's account is based on whatever reference they give in note 20 (not visible in Google unfortunately). The reference should really be sourced directly to this account (which is hopefully by Guldikas).

Spelling
The spelling in this article was highly inconsistent between British and American variants where these differ. I initially assumed it should be American (because of "behavior" in a section title) but then found when I started correcting to American spelling that this would involve more changes than the other way (e.g. uses of "centre", "travelling", etc.). So I've corrected to British spelling and added a template to this effect. If this was wrong because of the intentions of the earliest contributors, please feel free to change all the spellings the other way. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:09, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The original spelling was British I believe. Jack (talk) 12:37, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Etymology section
Shortly after this article was promoted to GA, a very poorly sourced etymology section was restored. After all the work we put into referencing the article for GA, I would appreciate it someone would do their homework and actually provide references and help maintain the quality of the article. – Maky  « talk » 02:41, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree it isn't particularly well sourced. I readded it because someone asked why the article was a part of wp:etymology - I looked back in the history and realized that it had a pretty big etymology section earlier which was then removed. Not knowing whether this was removed by consensus or just by attrition I put it back in. Remove it if you don't think it fits. ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 03:04, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It fits, but I'd appreciate some help sourcing it. Don't get me wrong—I do appreciate your efforts tracking it down in the history and restoring it.  The information is good.  But given that we just got it promoted to GA, I would have been much more appreciative if you or someone else had cleaned it up and provided better sources.  I'd help, but I've spent too much time on this article already, and I need to get back to my other work. –  Maky  « talk » 13:21, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I found a couple of extra scholarly sources and replaced one low quality link.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 14:05, 5 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Additionally there is a minor typo in the Etymology Section that I am unable to edit. In the third sentence of the second paragraph it reads "fron" when it clearly means "from". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.234.185.201 (talk) 16:01, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Thoughts on Behavior Section
The article on the Orangutan is not a featured article but is rather classified as a GA-class. It still appears to be complete in terms of what categories of information it has. It includes the etymology of the word Orangutan as well as information on the species’ anatomy and behavior. A section is also included on the interactions of orangutans with humans with a link to another article about “Orangutans in popular culture.” Of particular interest to me is a subsection of behavior titled “reproduction and parenting.” Since many altruistic behaviors occur between parent and child, this section could be expanded to include more than just information about how long the child lives with its mother. There is also a subsection about the social life of the orangutan. The talk section is focused mostly on what needs to be included or taken out rather than what needs to be done in order to get the article to reach feature article status. There is a GA review section that was completed fairly recently in March, 2012. Many of the issues seem to have been fixed since that time however. This makes me wonder what needs to be done in order to get the Orangutan article to the feature status since it is a well-known species. There should be plenty of interest in it. E.middlebrook (talk) 19:45, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * First of all, thank you for the constructive feedback. The short, blunt answer to your question is that we need more people with the time, resources, and commitment to write high-quality Wikipedia articles to contribute to WikiProject Primates.  We are just volunteers, and at present, I think there are maybe 2 or 3 semi-regularly active editors in the project... and that means they add content and discuss issues about primate articles maybe once a month.  Although featured articles are what all editors should strive for, not everyone has the time, dedication, writing skills, and resource access in order to facilitate this.  Furthermore, the featured article candidacy process (FAC) is very tedious, demanding, and psychologically draining.  FAC is lacking in reviewers (not writers), which makes reviews for FAC (as well as GAN--the good article equivalent) take many weeks or months.  Since a Wiki user can only nominate one article to FAC at a time, it translates into a very slow process that usually burns people out.  (P.S. – This is why I am no longer an Ambassador—I feel Wiki needs more reviewers than writers.  More writers can be a good thing, but if they burn out because no one offers feedback or reviews their GA or FA candidates, then they burn out and leave.)  Anyway, sorry for the rant—I'm not trying to scare you away from Wikipedia editing.  As I said on the Ring-tailed lemur talk page, I'm more than willing to help with your project.  But at the moment, I can't do the research for people.  I'm too busy researching and re-writing the article Strepsirrhini and Prosimian, and I also hope to create an aritcle for "Lemuriformes", which currently points to Lemur.  Basically, I'm stuck cleaning up articles with horribly confusing taxonomy just so I can write consistently on the other primate articles.  Fun!!  Hopefully one of the other editors that have been monitoring this page can offer some additional research/writing help.  –  Maky  « talk » 20:32, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

"Decimate"
You might not be inclined to agree, but I think we should stick with the preferred meaning of decimate, i.e. to reduce by a tenth. What humankind is doing to the habitat of Orang utans exceeds that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.207.193.224 (talk) 10:06, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It probably doesn't matter given the term's colloquial use, but for technical reasons, I agree. I've changed it. –  Maky  « talk » 14:10, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

No mention of P. Rodman in pioneering of orangutan research
Although Galdikas was instrumental in early popularization of research on orangutans, P. S. Rodman was actually the first researcher to do systematic research on orangutans. Perhaps a mention of him is in order.

Rodman, P. S. (1973). Population composition and adaptive organisation among orang-utans of the Kutai Reserve. Comparative Ecology and Behaviour of Primates. R. P. Michael J. H. Crook, Editors. London: Academic Press (pp. 171-209) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.118.0.255 (talk) 06:39, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

About the Blood Groups in Orangutans
The following paper is referred in the article Gorilla:

But some information is inconsistent in the same referred paper, for example: (See tables 1 & 6)

1. For table 1, the total number (N=938) could not be reproduced.

2. For table 6, the genotype "Non-A, non-B" should correspond to the group O, and "A/non-A, non-B" should correspond to the group A, but the phenotypes of such genotypes are all "AB".

What do you think?

HTH & Thanks, 125.33.243.40 (talk) 20:22, 8 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think the information has much meaning for this article. As the paper points out at the beginning, these blood types are similar to ours, but are not the same across species.  So their A, B, and O types are not the same as ours, and that could be confusing to the readers.  (And in some cultures, like Japanese, public interpretation of the blood types could play into local stereotypes.)  What could be added to the article is a short blurb (citing this source) that notes that blood types for captive orangs have been studied to help with managed captive populations in cases where blood transfusions are needed. –  Maky  « talk » 15:05, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Dodgy English?
In the Anatomy and physiology section, shouldn't it read "hip joints" and not "hips joint"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.196.147.47 (talk) 22:43, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. Fixed. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 03:24, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Conservation status
Orangutans are said to be close to extinction. Why the article does not have a "Conservation Status"?Neuras (talk) 20:14, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * It does. It is section 7.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 20:24, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 April 2014
Under the "Intelligence" subheading there is a sentence that lacks a "y" in the word they. It reads as such "Scientists hope the data they collect will help researchers learn about socialising patterns"

24.217.216.248 (talk) 06:00, 28 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I'm not seeing the problem you state. Peter coxhead (talk) 06:20, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * No, I can't see it either - and I've gone back through the history to 9 Dec 2013, so the IP isn't seeing an old version, unless it is over 4 months old. - I'll mark as answered  - Arjayay (talk) 08:17, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Intelligent Primates
Last I saw/read, Homo sapiens sapiens were also primates. Now, I understand that people may be annoyed with other people that they share a world with, but surely Homo sapiens sapiens is a somewhat more intelligent (citation needed) than Orangutans? I offer Wikipedia as an example of how much more complex Homo sapiens' tools can be. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.149.35.160 (talk) 10:39, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Are you referring to this statement: "Orangutans are among the most intelligent primates"? If so, it is not saying that orangutans are the most intelligent primates, just one of several highly intelligent primates. –  Maky  « talk » 15:46, 22 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I too thought Orangutans are among the most intelligent primates was a bit of a non-statement. We primates are some of the more intelligent animals.  I think that gorillas, bonobos (who certainly are a lot nicer than a lot of humans), chimps (in spite of their tendency to act a bit too much like us, particularly when they are enraged), most human species, baboons, and even some monkeys--even the damn'd annoying macaques (if you don't agree, then you just haven't spent enough time with the vicious, sneaky, poop-throwing, face-eating bastards)--are considered to be pretty clever.  So what does it mean to be 'among the most intelligent primates'?  This statement lacks precision or insight.  If you could do some meaningful quantification, e.g. compare the smartest orangutan with the smartest bonobo with the smartest lowland gorilla, or some meaningful sample of them competing at the same task, then it would be interesting.

Semi-protected edit request on 5 November 2014
Please move these lines moved to "Social life"; ''Orangutans communicate with various sounds. Male will make long calls, both to attract females and advertise themselves to other males.[27] Both sexes will try to intimidate conspecifics with a series of low guttural noises known collectively as the "rolling call".[28] When annoyed, an orangutan will suck in air through pursed lips, making a kissing sound that is hence known as the "kiss squeak". Infants make soft hoots when distressed. Orangutans are also known to blow raspberries.[28]'' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.138.235.134 (talk) 00:28, 7 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't understand what you mean by "move these lines moved to 'Social life'". Please clarify! Peter coxhead (talk) 11:46, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
 * They are from the opening paragraphs of "Ecology and behaviour" and should be moved to subsection "Social life". 155.138.246.163 (talk) 16:09, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, right. The opening paragraphs give a general overview; it seems to me that this information can go there just as well as in the subsection. I'd like some other views if it's to be moved. Peter coxhead (talk) 20:28, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with leaving it as it is. The Social life section is more about social organisation.  The sentences in question could easily be part of a "communication" sub-section.__DrChrissy (talk) 16:46, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template.

Orangutan spelling
68.51.181.252 (talk) 02:39, 20 March 2015 (UTC) Orangutan ought to be spelled Orang Utan since the Malay word Orang translated to English means person, man or human. The word Utan translated to English means forest or woods. Thus Orang Utan means a “man from the forest”, or “forest man”.
 * That may be the etymology of the name, but "Orangutan" is how the English sources spell it. We follow our sources. –  Maky  « talk » 02:51, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Extinct species omission
The previously described extinct sub species P. pygmaeous weidenreichi, is no longer a representative of P. pygmaeous, but is now considered a separate species within the genus Pongo, as P. weidenreichi due to the species larger size, distribution and temporal range (early to mid Pleistocene) (Harrison et al. "Fossil Pongo from the Early Pleistocene Gigantopithecus fauna of Chongzuo, Guangxi, southern China". Quaternary International 354 (2014) 59-67). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.141.58.117 (talk • contribs)
 * The extinct species are discussed at ponginae. Please feel free to update that article. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:43, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Updating this article by reference to Wich's work
I just had a look at the section on language to see whether recent work at Liverpool John Moores University by Serge Wich suggesting that human speech descended from orang utan alarm calls is in this article, but it is not. This article could be updated with a reference to this work, which received coverage on a Today programme in early winter 2017. 81.140.1.129 (talk) 22:13, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

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Pongo tapanuliensis
Seems we've got a new species on our hands (for now anyhow): https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/nov/02/new-species-of-orangutan-discovered-in-northern-sumatra-tapanuli-pongo-tapanuliensis?CMP=fb_gu BronxZooFan (talk) 17:09, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

So apparently:
 * However, nuclear DNA sequence comparisons reported in 2017 suggest that Tapanuli orangutans diverged from Sumatran orangutans about 3.4 million years ago.[2][22] Tapanuli orangutans diverged from Bornean orangutans, much later, about 670,000 years ago.[2]

and also
 * Based on genome sequencing, the Tapanuli orangutan separated from other orangutans about 700,000 years ago, and the two other species diverged about 400,000 years ago

Hmmm 82.36.145.224 (talk) 05:35, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Classification history
See Talk:Tapanuli orangutan for some additional discussion of classification history. WolfmanSF (talk) 02:58, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2018
{please I have a fact to add} 50.207.255.26 (talk) 16:30, 13 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: It is not possible for individual users to be granted permission to edit a semi-protected article. You can do one of the following:
 * You will be able to edit this article without restriction four days after account registration if you make at least 10 constructive edits to other articles.
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 * Thanks, &#8209;&#8209; El Hef  ( Meep? ) 02:40, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Including the Catarrhini parvorder
I was wondering whether the parvorder Catarrhini should be included with the taxonomy information in the sidebar template? That page even explicitly mentions Orangutans as members of the taxon. However, I'm new here and don't want to step on any toes by just adding it myself. Any input would be greatly appreciated. TheDealio (talk) 23:43, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

status system
just put the status system CRitcally endangered, as all orangutans species are CR. Oppa Justine!  Talk  9 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done The CR status, along with references from IUCN, have been added to the taxonomic infobox.  spintendo   05:55, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks :). Oppa Justine!   Talk  9 July 2018 (UTC)

Orangutang
Orangutang is a dinosaur. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jumpy72red (talk • contribs) 11:00, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Argentina
"Argentina" did not recognise anything. A judge in that country did. I have no information on whether the decision is final and/or sets precedent and/or the extent of application. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.228.11.78 (talk) 21:40, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 September 2019
Please can you change the following section: "Other major conservation centres in Indonesia include those at Tanjung Puting National Park and Sebangau National Park in Central Kalimantan, Kutai in East Kalimantan, Gunung Palung National Park in West Kalimantan, and Bukit Lawang in the Gunung Leuser National Park on the border of Aceh and North Sumatra. In Malaysia, conservation areas include Semenggoh Wildlife Centre in Sarawak and Matang Wildlife Centre also in Sarawak, and the Sepilok Orang Utan Sanctuary near Sandakan in Sabah.[95] Major conservation centres that are headquartered outside of the orangutan's home countries; include Frankfurt Zoological Society, Orangutan Foundation International, which was founded by Birutė Galdikas,[96] and the Australian Orangutan Project.[97]"

To: "Other major conservation centres in Indonesia include those at Tanjung Puting National Park and Sebangau National Park in Central Kalimantan, Kutai in East Kalimantan, Gunung Palung National Park in West Kalimantan, and Bukit Lawang in the Gunung Leuser National Park on the border of Aceh and North Sumatra. In Malaysia, conservation areas include Semenggoh Wildlife Centre in Sarawak and Matang Wildlife Centre also in Sarawak, and the Sepilok Orang Utan Sanctuary near Sandakan in Sabah.[95] Major conservation centres that are headquartered outside of the orangutan's home countries include: Frankfurt Zoological Society, Orangutan Foundation International, which was founded by Birutė Galdikas,[96] Orangutan Foundation, [citation: https://www.orangutan.org.uk/], and the Australian Orangutan Project.[97]

I have added in to the list another Orangutan conservation organisation that should sit alongside the others. Also a minor grammatical correction, replacing semi colon with colon after "...home countries include:" Jbon93 (talk) 15:12, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * ❌. You can make the edit yourself, WP:HEP. --Zefr (talk) 15:57, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

fix citation
I need help fixing (or verifying?) a challenged citation #[44][failed verification] for heading "Reproduction and Parenting", third paragraph, 2nd sentence which was written: "Like other great apes, female orangutans enter a period of infertility during adolescence which may last for 1–4 years." The source is correct, you just have to click on "Behavior", so 2nd page, then go to 2nd heading "Reproduction", 4th and 5th sentences which read " There is a period of adolescent infertility, as is seen in the other great apes, but it is unknown how long this lasts among female orangutans. There is some evidence that it persists for one to four years (Galdikas 1995; Knott 2001)." It is the correct citation being used in multiple places, just the 2nd page. http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/factsheets/entry/orangutan/behav — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elisevil (talk • contribs) 07:06, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Comments
From the lead section, paragraph 2: "Genomic comparisons show that the Tapanuli orangutan separated from the Sumatran orangutan about 3.4 million years ago. The Tapanuli orangutan separated from the Bornean orangutan much later, about 670,000 years ago." Does this mean that the common ancestor of Tapanuli and Bornean orangutans separated from Sumatran 3.4 million years ago? Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:30, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

From the lead section, paragraph 2: "The ancestors of the Ponginae split from the main ape line in Africa 15.7 and 19.3 mya." I don't know why two different numbers are given. Axl ¤ <small style="color:#808000">[Talk] 10:41, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Fixed both. LittleJerry (talk) 16:28, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 May 2020
with social bonds occurring primarily between mothers and their dependent offspring, who stay together for the first seven to eight years. Mathilde Teitgen (talk) 09:02, 25 May 2020 (UTC)


 * ❌. It's not clear what changes you want to make. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon &bull; videos) 13:16, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Translation
′The name "orangutan" (also written orang-utan, orang utan, orangutang, and ourang-outang) is derived from the Malay words orang, meaning "man", and hutan, meaning "forest". The locals originally used the name to refer to actual forest-dwelling people.′

Implies that the word orang in Malay means man, and that it is a case of the word for man being used for both sexes as sometimes occurs in english. This doesn't seem like it could be the case, however, as malay already has a separate word specifically for man, so orang here must just be a general word for human https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english-malaysian/person. It might be better to stay on the safe side with something like is derived from the Malay words orang, meaning "person"; is it even clear the the word for man is used for humans in general at all in malay, and that this isn't an assumption by an English speaker on another language? 92.23.206.227 (talk) 14:42, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 August 2020
"Please change 'The orangutan was first described scientifically in 1758 in the Systema Naturae of Carl Linnaeus as Simia satyrus' to 'The orangutan was first described scientifically in 1758 in the Systema Naturae of Carl Linnaeus as Homo Sylvestris', because 'Homo Sylvestris' is what you shall find if you confer the primary text Carolus Linnæus, Systema Naturæ, vol. 1, 10th ed. (Stockholm: Laurentius Salvius, 1758), page 24." 159.250.179.155 (talk) 19:13, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

a link to the specified page is here. <b style="background:#304747;color:#BED6D6"> Seagull123 </b><b style="color:#304747"> Φ </b> 15:51, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done GreaterPonce665  (TALK) 18:22, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 September 2020
change "who remain together for the first two years." to "who remain together for the first six to eight years.". animalasia.org states that "The mothers stay with their young for six to eight years" in the article linked [https://www.animalsasia.org/us/media/news/news-archive/why-separation-is-so-devastating-for-orangutan-mothers-and-infants.html#:~:text=Orangutan%20mothers%20are%20single%20parents,for%20building%20a%20sleeping%20nest. here], and redapes.org states that "In the wild, orangutans stay with their mothers until they are around seven or eight years old." in their article here. Fgeezo (talk) 06:41, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The current description under Reproduction and development gives scientific journal sources and you need much better sources to result any changes. GreaterPonce665  (TALK) 18:27, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Pop Culture Reference
An orangutan is also featured in the book/movie “Life of Pi” by Yan Martel — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.42.149.172 (talk) 02:16, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on October 15th, 2020
I can't edit this since I'm not autoconfirmed, but the last line of the first paragraph under "Orangutans and humans" contains a typo: it should read "hunters" as opposed to "hunters's." Raiden1312 (talk) 21:55, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Thanks for pointing that out. HiLo48 (talk) 06:29, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2021
Please change "Sumatran and Borean" to "Sumatran and Bornean". 70.114.217.110 (talk) 02:01, 28 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done. Volteer1 (talk) 02:30, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

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