Talk:Order of precedence in England and Wales

Harry, former Prince and Duke of Sussex
The Duke of Sussex is no longer a member of the Royal Family per se; he is a relative of royals but he is not technically a "royal;" he has left that life. He should not be listed in an order of precedence. 98.10.165.90 (talk) 16:51, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The Duke of Sussex is one of the sovereign's grandsons, as is Peter Phillips. Neither are working royals but then neither are retired royals. They should all still appear in the order of precedence. Geofpick (talk) 18:49, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Sisters of a sovereign when not accompanied by her husband
I notice that a (currently vacent) spot exists for sisters and sisters-in-law of a sovereign when accompanying their husbands. However, there is no spot for these women on the list of female members of the royal family when not accompanying their husbands. It's not an urgent gap that needs filling as Princess Margaret has passed and this won't come into question until Charles becomes king and Anne and Sophie fit this description, but worth looking at in advance. Do they go in the same spot, after the sovereign's granddaughters? Based on the reasoning, sisters would go above any in-law daughters or granddaughters because they are born royal, while sister-in-law would probably go after the daughters-in-law (and maybe granddaughters-in-law?) Can anyone shed some light on this? Piratesswoop (talk) 18:47, 26 December 2020 (UTC)


 * I see that Debretts (https://debretts.com/royal-family/tables-of-precedence/#TABLE_OF_PRECEDENCE_AMONGST_LADIES_IN_ENGLAND_WALES) puts sisters of the sovereign ahead of daughters and granddaughters, whereas the list on this page now puts sisters of the sovereign behind daughters and granddaughters. Note that the Debretts list is assuming the ladies are NOT accompanied by their husbands -- Sophie would presumably come ahead of Anne if accompanied by Edward -- but the relative placement of the sovereign's *siblings* and the sovereign's *descendants* seems to be a discrepancy. Does anyone know why this is, and which we should follow? mooncow 15:49, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Nephews and Nieces of the King
Will these be place on the order of precedence:
 * 1) First Marriage
 * 2) Lady Sarah McCorquodale
 * 3) Emily McCorquodale (born 2 July 1983)
 * 4) George McCorquodale (born 17 November 1984)
 * 5) Celia McCorquodale (born 1989)
 * 6) Jane Fellowes, Baroness Fellowes
 * 7) The Honourable Laura Fellowes (born 19 July 1980)
 * 8) The Honourable Alexander Fellowes (born 23 March 1983)
 * 9) The Honourable Eleanor Fellowes (born 20 August 1985)
 * 10) Charles Spencer, 9th Earl Spencer
 * 11) Lady Kitty Spencer (born 28 December 1990)
 * 12) Lady Eliza Victoria Spencer (born 10 July 1992)
 * 13) Lady Katya Amelia Spencer (born 10 July 1992)
 * 14) Louis Spencer, Viscount Althorp (born 14 March 1994)
 * 15) The Honourable Edmund Spencer (born 6 October 2003)
 * 16) Lady Lara Spencer (born 16 March 2006)
 * 17) Lady Charlotte Spencer (born 30 July 2012)
 * 18) Second Marriage
 * 19) Annabel Elliot
 * 20) Ben Elliot (born 11 August 1975)
 * 21) Alice Elliot (born 1977)
 * 22) Catherine Elliot (born 1981)
 * 23) Mark Shand
 * 24) Ayesha Shand (born 1995)

Just an idea. 86.191.234.132 (talk) 17:30, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Only the "blood" nephews and nieces have official precedence as members of the Royal Family. The people you mentioned above are accorded precedence based on their relations to peers only. The new female order of precedence in the main article is wrong though as Princesses  Beatrice and Eugenie,  Lady Louise and Zara Phillips were not given precedence as nieces of the King, but rather as granddaughters of a former Sovereign.177.76.165.28 (talk) 19:50, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Wives of royal grandsons of former Sovereigns who are not Dukes
A revision on 17 July 2022 appears to have removed the Countess of Snowdon. Should she appear in the above category between the Duchess of Kent and Princess Michael of Kent, in the same way that her husband appears between the Duke of Kent and Prince Michael of Kent? The separation between herself and her husband presumably does not affect her precedence. She was removed from the template on 9th August 2020, so if she is restored to the Order of Precedence she should presumably also be restored to the template. Her own article has a succession box giving her precedence between Zara Tindall and Lady Sarah Chatto. Thoughts? Alekksandr (talk) 17:42, 11 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Both George, Earl of Harewood and his wife Patricia, Countess of Harewood, grandson of a former sovereign who was not a duke and his wife, were denied place in the list here on this article while they were alive. I remember this because I argued for their inclusion. So, why is the Earl of Snowdon here included? Kowalmistrz (talk) 08:19, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Secretaries of State
Jeremy Hunt is not at present a Secretary of State, therefore his highest is rank Privy Counsellor, unlike Oliver Dowden who is a Secretary of State in the Cabinet Office @DrKay Shacharrz (talk) 09:09, 25 February 2024 (UTC)