Talk:Order of the Solar Temple/Archive 1

Different versions
I have done some investigations on different versions of the events, facts and evidences that was presented by the family members, police and the media. First of all, it is clear that there are at least 3 different versions. The family members of the victims are convinced that it was not a suicide but a mass murder done by an outside job. The Official police version, they think it is ether a collective suicide or a mass murder done by the leader of the sect or even they have evidence that the murder was done by an unknown third party with sinister motives. In other word the police don't know exactly what happened. But the Media version was all the way a simple case of collective suicide, no question asked. The Media were not objective and did a lot of misinformation and deformation, they did not present the whole body of evidence to the public. One would say: if you control the Media, you control the thoughts of the mass. There is new evidence that the police had released. They found all the windows barricaded from the exterior, they found a major amount of White Phosphorus where the bodies were burned. White Phosphorus is used in flamethrowers. Notice the similarities between the massacre of Order of the Solar Temple members and the massacre of the Waco cult members. In the case of the OST only the bodies were burned with extreme heat but the building was not burned down. From all the body of evidence that was collected, I cannot believe that it was a collective suicide like the Media are manipulating us to believe. I believe it was a mass murder done by ether an old vindictive member of the sect or by a corrupt political sinister agenda. The motives of the latter is clearly to give an example to mass and to discredit all other sects in the present and for the future so to divide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fady Lahoud (talk • contribs) 19:44, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Fact checking
Questions:
 * 1) Is Salvan, Switzerland the place where Jouret was born? If so, please make that clear.
 * 2) Why do you say "myth" of the Knights Templar? They were a real organization.
 * 3) I deleted a reference to Maclean's, page 16. What did that mean? -- Zoe

Agreed on point 2, but it IS a myth that some survival of the Knights Templar has continued to this day, which is what I think this article is talking about. Many wacky groups claim direct descent from them, despite all evidence to the contrary.

-

This article contains uncredited copied blocks of text from
 * http://www.newwave.net/~haught/solar.html
 * http://www.watchman.org/profile/solartemplepro.htm

Please rewrite or attribute. --Eloquence 03:52 18 May 2003 (UTC)

Ack. I thought as much when I initially attacked it, but my cursory Google search didn't turn up the original articles. -- Zoe

Sorry I hit the save button as I was reviewing text in the edit window an then my computer crashed! In the future I will paste this stuff in a word processor before moving it to the edit window, I didn't think that would happen. I'm moving some of that stuff off but leave the bibliographic list (that isn't really copyright and it will be adding to it). The myth of the Knights Templar is a belief that the Knights Templar continued to exist &mdash; there are many books written about it. I'll try and put some more info about that. Alex756 11:27 18 May 2003 (UTC)

Hopefully now all the material here is factual and not copied. Sorry about that, but there were so many mass suicides in this group in several locations that getting all the facts straight was very confusing (I hope I finally got it right) so I just moved blocks of text in the various journlistic reports into the edit window to get the facts out and then just organize it. I've also put a note at the beginning as I don't think that anyone can really do this article in NPOV style as there is no one to speak for the Solar Temple &mdash; most of the information about the group is second and third hand in various journalists accounts, and we know how accurate that can be; I've tried to stick to information that I heard was verified by evidence obtained by the various police organizations involved in the various investigations of the group. Having followed the events closely when I was living in Montreal at the time I can vouch for the general accuracy of the facts and background as stated. Alex756 13:11 18 May 2003 (UTC)


 * I don't think the numbers or information on timing is right. The Watchman source gives the killings as:


 * Ocotber 4th - the three Dutoits in Quebec
 * Within 12 hours (not days and days) 22 people were found dead in s secret temple
 * Within hours a further 25 bodies were found in another fire
 * December 1995 - 16 people died in France
 * March 22nd 1997 - 5 died in Quebec City


 * The article gives a total of 74 deaths attributed to them (the above comes to 71 so Ia ssume there may be a few others)


 * I think the jumbling together of two sources together has really confused matters. I'll go through a couple of papers I have on them and se if I can't confirm the facts as listed above. (Emperor 15:10, 29 April 2006 (UTC))

Adding New Age category
I have added this article to Category:New Age even though it is already categorized under UFOs and UFOs are a subcategory of New Age, because this group has substantial direct significance to the New Age area unrelated to its connections with UFOs. --Gary D 08:25, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Redirect
Could someone who is reasonably informed on the subject consider adding a redirect from Solar Temple? Seems like a good idea to me given it breaks the search engine... -- 132.181.209.131 06:02, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Religioustolerance.org
This article uses the religioustolerance.org website as either a reference or a link. Please see the discussion on Wikipedia talk:Verifiability/Religioustolerance.org and Verifiability/Religioustolerance.org as to whether Wikipedia should cite the religioustolerance.org website, jguk 14:08, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * "This is a failed proposal. Consensus in its favor was not established within a reasonable period of time." Harald88 (talk) 14:48, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Leaving Earth: Destination Sirius?
That doesn't sound like a very encyclopedic heading for a section, and furthermore the section doesn't actually mention the idea of going to Sirius in sufficient detail. I suggest this be edited, and the article restructured to better fit the wiki template. 58.178.117.94 16:40, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

missing info
I added "apparent" to "suicides" as this is very much contested by family and several experts - so much that even the BBC added that word in their recent BBC-World flashback.

For more info as well on the not-yet-mentioned French apparent suicide see the French Wikipedia article: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Solaire#Th.C3.A9ories_du_complot_autour_de_l.27affaire

Harald88 23:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

organic bread bakery?
where is the source for this? i called the mairie of sainte anne de la perade and they told me that the bakery had been sold to an outside group and that, to their knowledge, there were no members of the order remaining in the town. --edit-- sorry, forgot to date july 17, 2007

Hitlerist link
> Some reports have claimed that Origas was a Nazi SS member during World War II. <

He was actually a translator who voluntarily worked for SS and he served 4 years in prison after being condemned as a nazi fellow traveller in 1947.

The Solar Temple had nothing to do with Sirius, that was just a scam. Their real purpose was to ignite a nazi revolution and make their leader into a neo-Hitler. 91.83.16.172 (talk) 22:16, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

CIA and politics
Some writers that have covered this topic have alleged a secret CIA influence behind the workings of the organization, which was thought to be linked to the political realm. It would be interesting if we could find sources for this. ADM (talk) 11:43, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Um, it sure would! I'd modestly call myself a better than average researcher. If you have anything at all that could point me in the general direction of these mysterious "some writers" you allude to, I'll bet I could turn up some citable sources and cross-referenced facts. Lenkody (talk) 12:46, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism
This page had all reference to the mass suicides removed. Given that this is what the group was best known for, removing it entirely is not a sensible thing to do.BlackMarlin (talk) 17:15, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

In Spain
"In the south of the island he lived the leader of the order in Spain,[8] also the only Spaniard who died in the suicide of the Order of the Solar Temple was a barber precisely the island of Tenerife." Would someone rewrite this into correct English? Not sure what it means. GangofOne (talk) 23:55, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

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