Talk:Ordinary Mind Zen School

Sentence on Bayda and Hamilton
I removed the following:

"Joko's other Dharma heirs, however, have unequivocally affirmed that both Bayda and Hamilton remain teachers in good standing within the Ordinary Mind School."

This is not at all what those sources say. The Barry Magid interview says

"Personally, I feel that the teacher who attempted to withdraw dharma transmission from two of her longest and most devoted students, Elizabeth Hamilton and Ezra Bayda, is not the same teacher I studied with."

and

"I’m no expert on Buddhist canon law, but having sat in on a number of discussions of this issue with members of the American Zen Teachers Association, there seemed to be a consensus among the teachers I’ve talked to that Dharma Transmission cannot be revoked."

This is miles away from "unequivocally affirming" that the teachers remain in good standing.

As for the Stuart Lachs interview, this one says

"Years ago I was given some of the letters and announcements from Joko Beck and E. Bayda and E. Hamilton in response, but I do not remember the details now, or if in what I saw, there were many details. So I cannot say anything about this particular case."

and

"However, I know one of Joko’s Dharma heirs. It is really beyond my understanding why Joko gave this person Dharma transmission. Apparently there are many very different animals with the name Zen."

When asked if Dharma transmission can be revoked he answered "I definitely think there are cases where Dharma transmission should be withdrawn."

Neither of these statements make any assertion, let alone an "unequivocal" one, about the teachers remaining in good standing. Helpsome (talk) 19:42, 30 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Critical remarks! Remember Eido Shimano; in older publications he's presented as a dharma of Soen Nakagawa, yet the Rinzai organisation never confirmed. That may not be the same as "withdrawal," but it comes close to it.  Joshua Jonathan   -  Let's talk!   20:22, 30 May 2015 (UTC)