Talk:Os Lusíadas

Erroneous Canto Length
Hello.

Translations
Let me say that Mickle's 1776 English translation is very bad. I´m portuguese, I know the original text, and let me say...the original is much better, and I don´t like that some of his notes criticize Camões original work (if they don´t they look like). I know that a lot of english speakers don´t know portuguese, but Mickle's work has (almost) nothing to do with the original! Sure, it rimes, but he cuts and adds parts! I wish there was a good translater that could translate this masterpiece with the glory that it has and deserves. No wonder Anglo people don´t know well Camões, the translaters are HORRIBLE!!!And the size of the strofes varies too, when in Camõens they are perfectly equal.


 * there are different translations of os lusiadas in english but most are not very good. there are a couple that may be decent and they are online. but a poem in my opinion is not something that can be translated and done justice to because of the uniqueness of a particular native language and the way the language can be manipulated and molded. the basic idea may be communicated in a englsh translation but the qualities it had in the original language have to be re-written to rhyme or whatever in the new language. so, to me, even if there is ever an english translation of os lusiadas that is great, the translator is creating a new work based on the original and so needs to take partial credit. the lusiads probably wouldnt be the lusiads anymore, in basic idea yes, in essence and beauty of the combination of the original words no, because the words are being changed to suit another language. sokmeone has to learn portuguese to really get it, the same goes for any other language to appreciate a great work done in that language.


 * Lusitano Transmontano 14:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


 * And in fact, this article should probably have a section about translations of Os Lusíadas into other languages (or at least English). Our article on the Æneid incorporates this into the "History" section, while there is a whole list dedicated to English translations of Homer (not to mention others on One Thousand and One Nights, The Hobbit, the Qur'ān, etc.). Q·L·1968 ☿ 22:43, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Query
Sorry if this is a silly question. The lead reads first printed in 1572, this epic poem focuses mainly on a fantastical interpretation of the Portuguese discoveries movement, in the 14th through 17th centuries

If it was first printed in 1572, how can it describe things until the 17th century ? (Portuguese discoveries movement, according to that article, was in the 15th century) Tintin (talk) 16:14, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

New article
I translated the portuguese article, since i think it is more developed. Feel free to improve it. I simply translated it, and some parts may not be as neutral as they should, so please, if you have knowledge about this, make it more neutral. Cheers.

Query - answer
Tintin

The Discoveries lasted until the 17th century, but they began in the 15th. It is not unreasonable to assume that there was plenty to talk about in 1572. I give you the example of Da Gama's discovery of the seaway route to India, which is the most celebrated event in The Lusiads.

Cleanup
This article needs quite a clean up, particularly with this "the poem tells us" stuff, which I feel is very unencyclopaedic, I have tried to fix it in the first few paragraphs, and have hidden one particularly iffy sentence. Personally I wonder how this article got B status as it is at the moment, no offense intended of course :) I will try to worker on the article further soon SGGH 22:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

A number of points:


 * NO citations! This needs to be fixed.
 * Typing in with the first point, there are a lot of observations/conclusions about the meaning of the text that just seem to be original research. The entire thing reads like an English essay at school rather than an encyclopedic article. Conclusions about the meaning of the text need to be cited to professional publications. It seems to me that the original article may have been lifted from a site which analysed the poem in this way, rather than write about in encyclopedicly.
 * Still some "the poem tells us" things in there which need to be removed, this was further evidence for my theory above, unless it was just the translation, which i doubt.
 * The structure needs work, I don't know enough about the peice to suggest a proper one.
 * Likewise, I have no idea if it covers everything, why merely pick those four cantos?
 * Such a huge volume of direct quotes of the poem, not sure if that is the way to go. They should all be translated also, because if one didnt speak Portuguese then one would have no idea if the quote used to support a point made by the article actually supported it or not.

I would perhaps go so far as to suggest a completely new article, this is so much of an originally researched English University essay with it's own interpretations and conclusions, and so little of an encyclopedic, factual article. It needs some serious citation and rewriting by someone who knows more about the topic than I.

Sorry to sound so negative, it's not like it's anyones fault though. Likly the original article it was translated from has such problems (if it isn't a lift from a site as I mentioned above) though I can't say that for definite, and obviously translating it has induced new errors (unavoidable ones unfortunatly). All in all, it needs an expert to work on it, preferably one who speaks Portuguese (to help with the translation) and who knows where interpretations can be cited. SGGH 20:46, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Updating the article
I was thinking about updating the article based on the current portuguese article that focuses on more episodes (not just 4 cantos), but seing the reaction above, I don't know if I should. Any oppinions?


 * Some clean up is needed before adding more content, I think. Want to help out?-- Ivo Emanuel Gonçalves  talk / contribs (join WP:PT) 18:10, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Observations about some episodes
Should the last section in the article even be there? It doesn't seem very encyclopedic. ErikTheBikeMan (talk) 05:18, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Title
If it is usually translated as a thing, that should be the title, this being the English-language site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.168.149.180 (talk) 15:47, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Is there a Wiki policy? I notice Pan Tadeusz instead of "Master Tadeusz", but Iliad instead of "Ἰλιάς" or "Ilias".  Maybe it's just what is most accessible to English readers. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 23:22, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't know if there is a policy, but it seems pretentious and unhelpful, when educated English speakers know something by an English name, to use an unfamiliar title in the original foreign language instead. As Unsigned says above, this is the English Wikipedia!  If you take the logic to its conclusion, you end with nothing but a redirect to the article in the Portuguese Wikipedia.   Deipnosophista (talk) 09:13, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Thetis and/or Tethys?
Both this article and the Portuguese language Wikipedia article use internal links to both the nereid Thetis and the Titanide Tethys. Anyone can clear up who is the "Tétis" from Camoens? Or does he use both (one for the Adamastor episode and another for the hostelling of the Portuguese in the Island of Love and the prophecy to Gama)? Or he (con)fuses both into a single character? This should be cleared. 89.155.19.3 (talk) 23:48, 24 January 2022 (UTC)