Talk:Oseledets

Turkish origin?
The COA of House of Schwarzenberg shows a raven pecking an eye of a Turk. Please take a look at his haircut. Any info? Bar-abban (talk) 23:42, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Origin
Please, do NOT introduce unreliable sources into the article. There is no scholarly source that would connect the hairstyle to Svyatoslav.--Galassi (talk) 15:13, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
 * there are loads of them. Just use google time after time ^) -- George Serdechny 15:15, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

There is a PRIMARY source - a record by Leo Diaconus who indeed described Svyatoslav as wearing this haicut.176.15.77.168 (talk) 10:14, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
 * A description of a haircut in a primary source is WP:OR. Where is this description exactly (verbatum) in the source, and how do you know it is a chupryna? It took no one specific form over the centuries: short, long, waxed, plaited, tucked behind the ear... --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:04, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Uhm, both Ukrainians and Russians are claiming that oseledets was an traditional Ruthenian haircut, and both are always quoting the Leon Deacon's description of Svyatoslav as an only proof. But they probably ignore that Svyatoslav was an Varangian so it's unclear what custom he was observing. For example, Bulgarians have an interesting theory, that origins of ukrainian oseledets can be easily  connected with south slavic чумбас/чембас or perčin arrived with Proto-Bulgarians from Asia. Asank neo (talk) 13:15, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Firstly, if we're going to get technical about it, Sviatoslav I of Kiev was post-Varangian, even if this were reliably sourced (see Galassi's comment right at the top of this section... from 2011). Secondly, your 'theory' is WP:OR (unless, of course, you have WP:RS to back it up). Thirdly, and most importantly, this is an article talk page, WP:NOTOPINION. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 21:10, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Ok, sorry, that's my fault :) So, firsty there are many articles with some sources or pictures about the existence of čumbas or perčin in the Balkans: example example2 example3 example3. The fact, that the Proto-Bulgarian heads were in some way shaven you can easily find in Nominalia of the Bulgarian Khans. The area of  First Bulgarian Empire is partially on territories of Ukraine. Migrations of Bulgarians are through the Ukrainian territory too, with influences from Old Great Bulgaria. Normans weared shaven heads(good illustrations in Bayeux Tapestry), so it seems, that more probably is rather an mix of Proto-Bulgarian, Asian and Scandinavian influences than an native custom.Asank neo (talk) 13:52, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Irrelevant. Again, this is WP:OR, and please desist with the WP:SOAP. This is not a forum or blog. Thank you for your understanding. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 20:50, 1 February 2017 (UTC)