Talk:Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan

Kishidan
Are the characters actually based on the band, Kishidan? It says that in the Kishidan article... if it's true and anyone has any sources on that (the other definetely does not, but it's very believable so I wouldn't doubt it entirely) then we should put that in this article. Accelagirl 15:23, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Doubtful. While the style of the Ouendan is exaggerated, there are stern-faced, black-clad cheeerleaders in Japan. Just generally with shorter coats and less ridiculous hairstyles. I see both Kishidan and Ouendan being influenced by the "Yankee" style (in particular, the long coats and pompadours), but that's where the similarity ends. Plus, you could make the argument that Ryuuta's hairstyle isn't a pompadour, but a chonmage with an incredibly huge topknot... --Julian Grybowski 16:02, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Theoretically Speaking
If the titles are to be imported, they must be bought in Japan first by the exporter. Would the import sales in other nations not then be included in the Japanese sales? While I don't think that the article says anything that is outright incorrect (though getting sources in there would help prove so), it could be easily misunderstood that the high sales from importers help to prop up the Japanese sales. (which they do, but that effect has already been accounted for in the numbers quoted).--Slavik81 20:26, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that sales statistics in Japan are obtained from retailers, not from distributors / wholesalers. Kcumming 15:44, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Title translation?
Can anyone translate the title of this game please?

Done. Nsteinberg 20:47, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Requested Songs Version?
do you know if there are any plans of doing a "requested songs" cartridge?
 * No music game to date has ever released a "requested songs" version. Therefore, I wouldn't add anything to the article with that speculation until there some sort of rumor that had some official merit, and not just the standard "we're looking into all options" claptrap.72.130.21.164 03:34, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Daigasso Band Brothers has a "requested songs" cartridge.

Title Romanization
After the title was changed to Osu! Tatakae! Oendan (with a horizontal line on the O), I changed it back to Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan because that is the standard romanization and the one that Nintendo uses (Mouse over the link to the 4.2 MB movie and look at the status bar) and the one that the developer iNiS uses (Look at the image name of the Ouendan thumbnail). Nsteinberg 20:56, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

The title was again changed, this time to "Ossu! Tatakae! Ouendan". Please discuss changing the title from "Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan" before you do it! Nsteinberg 03:46, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

You were right to change it back from "ossu", as 押忍 is read "osu". But I disagree on the macron point. For these reasons, I'm going to follow the WP:MOS-JA and change the title back to "Osu! Tatakae! Ōendan", which is the correct romanization. -Amake 16:50, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) There is no official English title for this game, as it was never released outside of Japan.
 * 2) Using filenames and URIs as a basis for assuming an "official" or "preferred" name is not a good idea (nor generally accepted anywhere that I've ever heard of) because they tend to be limited to ASCII.
 * 3) Wikipedia supports Unicode everywhere, so let's make use of it.

Elite Beat Agents
I believe that we should have a discussion of what exactly "Elite Beat Agents" is before mentioning it in this article. Yes, it keeps the same basic gameplay, but it changes everything else about the game, even the character animations. So, should we consider this to be a sequel of sorts to Ouendan? In any case, EBA definitely needs its own article. Oh, and try to avoid the term "Americanized." I believe that the correct word is localized. In the meantime, I am making some edits to the latest changes that pertain to this. LupinConq 01:22, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I consider it a remake, or a "follow-up" rather than a sequel. This does not seem to be a sequel, in that the only similarity is the game engine and style of play. Nor is it a localization, as it is not an adaptation of the original game, but an entirely new game in itself. Therefore, I think the most apt terminology is either a "remake" (with the same premise but characters and locales more suited to a Western audience), or a "follow-up" (like a "sequel" but without being a continuation of the previous plot or having any of the same characters). As for a discussion of Americanization or Westernization, perhaps that should be added later once more details have come out. --Julian Grybowski 04:19, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No one called Final Fantasy II a follow-up to Final Fantasy, thusly, this is a sequel to Ouendan. - A Link to the Past (talk) 06:13, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with "remake" being the proper term. When they made a US version of the Japanese film "Ringu", they didn't call it a sequel.  They called it a remake.  That's essentially what this is.  It's the same basic premise with different characters for the US.72.130.21.164 09:35, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Same premise? A cheer leading squad is hardly the same as a secret government agency. It has new music, new animations, new characters, new stories, new visuals, etc. The US version of Ringu is a remake because it is the same plot, just Americanized. Elite Beat Agents is 99% different, the 1% being how it plays. - A Link to the Past (talk) 16:36, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Because it's a game, it has the same premise. The 99% difference it about 1% of the gameplay, and that 1% difference is 99% of the gameplay. (to turn your hyperbole onto itself.)  It's like Iron Chef America.  It's an American remake.  Different chefs, different host, different country, different language, different commentators...but the same basic premise, and that's the majority of the show. Hence, remake.  The only way I could possibly see this being called a sequel is if Elite Beat Agents references the events of Ouendan in the game.72.130.21.164 23:22, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * So, you're saying that Nintendo did not build off of this game in anyway, and despite that fact, it is still a remake?
 * It is a brand new game. It is as much of a remake as Super Mario Bros. 2J was a remake of the first. You can NOT compare it to television shows or movies - they change the plot, the scenarios, the characters, the style, but EBA changes everything but the gameplay. I could say SMB2 was more of a remake than EBA is - it only changes the level designs. It uses the same gameplay, plot, style and characters, while the only thing that remains the same in EBA is how the game plays. It's new music, characters, plot, style and setting. It is not a remake like DDR with English songs, because DDR has no plot, characters or setting. DDR just changed what you heard. EBA is a game with a plot. Thusly, it is not a remake. When the only connection one game has to another is how it plays and nothing more, no sane person would refer to it as a remake. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:51, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Saving
SAVING? How do you save in this game? I think it might be important to those who can't read japanese. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.0.85.171 (talk • contribs) 20:45, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Progress is saved automatically after you beat a mission. I added a sentence about it in the gameplay section. Heartof Gold   (Searching) 21:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thanks.

Erase data.

How can you erase data? *curious*
 * Hold A,B,X,Y,L and R at the same time. Then select はい, then はい again.--220.99.57.38 16:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

The Artist
can anyone knows any information about the manga artist which draw the characters of the game? That guy/girl has a unique drawing. user page:korhan

The artist's name is Saito Atsushi. He has been credited in both Ouendan and Elite Beat Agents.

"Stars three cheerleaders"
Since there was a revision, I thought I'd bring the discussion here, instead of just going back to my revision.

It is true that the game never states that the player is controlling the actions of the cheer squad. I was just trying to make an inaccurate statement work a little better. "Ouendan stars a group of three cheerleaders by rhythmically cheering for various troubled people." is inaccurate for the following reasons.


 * 1) Using the word cheerleaders implies, to an English-speaking audience, American-style cheerleaders. There are some (the three girl cheerleaders), but they are only available with unlocked content.
 * 2) Saying that the game stars three of them implies that there are only three in the game. It's true that there are only three at a time, but there are a total of 8 "playable" characters in the cheering squad.

So, as an alternative, I would propose the following.

Oudendan's protagonists are a cheering squad, who progress through the game by rhythmically cheering for various troubled people.

If there are no further comments after a week, I'll go with that.

Kcumming 01:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Life Bar
I changed the phrase "represents the player performance" with "represents the chracter or chracters fighting spirit" because it is what it represents. The kanji at the end of the abr literally means "firm spirit" if i'm not mistaken and can be translated as "mood". This way the phrase makes more sense thematically while keeping the good explanation. Please discuss. General Norris 11:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Discussion of "Osu!"
I inserted a new section into the article that was quickly deleted. The text I inserted is as follows:

"Osu!" as a Japanese expression

The cheer squad's signature shout "Osu!" can be translated a number of ways. In Japanese, it is a typical masculine affirmation analogous to English phrases such as "Yo!", "Yeah!" or "Yes, sir!" Notably, only the male cheerleaders in the game actually use the word. In the Insane difficulty setting, "Karei ni Ouen," the Cheer Girls shout "Go!" in English in all parts of the game the males shout "Osu!" Similarly, while the men begin each stage shouting "Ikuze!" (a masculine phrase meaning "Here we go!") before counting down from three in Japanese, the Cheer Girls use the distinctly more feminine "Ikuwayo!" before counting down from three in English.

When deleted, the editor referred to this as "pointless." I don't agree, as I think that a section describing the literal translation of "Osu!" and the game's use of masculine and feminine Japanese is an interesting cultural note that could be of use to the article. Agree or disagree?--Hailinel 05:12, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, that's just it. Why does it matter? It's basically saying girls are being girls and guys are being guys. This isn't an article for discussing the masculinity or feminimity of certain phrases.—ウルタプ 05:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Given that English isn't structured in such gender-specific context, I think it is worth including. Yes, there are certain English phrases that guys use more than girls and girls more than guys, but even Japanese-language parts of speech have masculine/feminine context, which isn't something that most English speakers may be aware of. If we insert the section back in the article and add a link to a Wikipedia article or article section on gender in Japanese language, I think that it would be worth keeping.--Hailinel 05:30, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you even have sources for this information to begin with? Furthermore, why is this notable in relation with this game? It's like stating "This game uses Kanji script." Different languages have different characteristics. An article on a foreign video game isn't the place to note those characteristics. ' 22:10, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Fine, I'll drop the proposal. Next time one of you calls something pointless, it wouldn't hurt to explain why.--Hailinel 02:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Seemingly, it seems to be intended to be "Go!", because the Cheer girls shout "Go!" as a replacement to the guys' "Osu!"Luigi6138 13:30, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Osu in the context of this game means "push". They wouldn't have written it in the old style if it didn't have the old meaning. Look at http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%8A%BC%E5%BF%8D for the etymology. If you can't read that, then leave it alone. If you can read it, then pay attention to the second paragraph. The word is a combination of 押 and 忍 (push, and endure.) In an American context you could say "you gotta push it to the limit!" or something like that. Pay attention to how the word is used in the game. Translating it as "hey" or "yo" is wrong in this case. Bombman (talk) 10:30, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
 * How can you prove that it is intended to be the martial arts thing? If you look on most modern kettles from Japan, where you push the little thing on top to release the latch, that is not the same second character, but it is still a kanji one, implying a different meaning. I see little to no reason as to why the title follows the "archaic" kendo meaning, as this game is not martial arts related. Luigi6138 (talk) 00:28, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It's official. Either Nintendo Power is using us, or they have the right one. The most recent issue translates Osu as "Hey!". Luigi6138 (talk) 03:07, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * While this debate is already settled, I'd like to point out that no, "push" is not an appropriate translation for 押忍 in this case (or really in any case other than a discussion of its etymology). The etymology of the word, the fact that it's written in kanji, etc., have no bearing on the fact that "Push!" is not a common interjection/exclamation in English and would sound absolutely ridiculous in a title.  Regardless of the origin of the word, modern usage is so far removed from Yamamoto Jōchō's hagakure that any literal rendering would be wildly anachronistic.  -Amake (talk) 15:14, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Following MOS-JP...
The changes that are being done "according to WP:MOS-JP" need to be carefully analyzed.

MOS-JP says, for modern names (6.2):
 * Spelling, including macron usage, of the name of a modern figure should adhere to the following, in order of preference:
 * 1. Use the official trade name if available in English/Latin alphabet;
 * 2. Use the form found in a dictionary entry from a generally-accepted English dictionary;
 * 3. Use the form publicly used on behalf of the person in the English-speaking world;
 * 4. Use the form publicly used on behalf of the person in any other popular Latin-alphabet-using language (French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, German, and Dutch, or variations); or
 * 5. If none of the above is available, use the macronned form.

Trade name-wise, the game has always been called "Ouendan" in English form (in game reviews, from Play Asia, etc.) Thus, I'd argue, that it should be referred to as "Ouendan" throughout the article. This also applies to the article name. --Masem 17:23, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Running over the "video" on the Nintendo mini-site for Ouendan, the filename of the video states "Ouendan", so even Nintendo intends it to be Ouendan, not the Hepburn form. Luigi6138 16:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

As I said above: For these reasons, I'm going to propose a move to change the title back to "Osu! Tatakae! Ōendan", which is the correct romanization. Amake 03:33, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) There is no official English title for this game, as it was never released outside of Japan.
 * 2) Using filenames and URIs as a basis for assuming an "official" or "preferred" name is not a good idea (nor generally accepted anywhere that I've ever heard of) because they tend to be limited to ASCII.
 * 3) Wikipedia supports Unicode everywhere, so let's make use of it.


 * Ok, even if you dismiss 1, "Ouendan" is still valid for point 3 above - every major gaming site that has talked about the game, and every foreign game importer uses "Ouendan". Also, by WP:UE: "If a native spelling uses different letters than the most common English spelling (eg, Wien vs. Vienna), only use the native spelling as an article title if it is more commonly used in English than the anglicized form."  Again, "Ouendan" is the name it is commonly known by in English speaking countries, not "Ōendan".  --Masem 03:59, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

My last edit summary for this article: it was too long...
If it's valid on Ouendan 2's article, it's valid here. Either remove it on both, or remove it on neither. The Kanji translations are helpful to those who don't know how to read Japanese and trying to navigate through and play the game. Personally, I'd recommend that if this section is removed, leave the Kanji translations behind. Luigi6138 (talk • contribs) 21:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Why the removal of the character names?
This seems to be the most popular target of reversion and re-reversion (n.b.: I'm one of the involved parties) - but I can't for the life of me figure out why. What's the justification for removing what appears to be a perfectly valid section? --moof (talk) 06:19, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's pretty much just cruft, since the so-called "characters" have no impact on anything--they're just dancing in the background over there.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 13:35, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly. No impact = removal. Re-removed. Luigi6138 (talk) 22:33, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Removed excess detail in difficulty section
I removed the following in the difficulty section. It goes into excess detail that doesn't add much to the understanding of the topic at hand. - Matthew0028  09:11, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

"Examples of this can be easily seen in the Very Hard versions of Shanghai Honey and Atsuki Kodō no Hate. Shanghai Honey's final section has many more numbered markers than appear in Hard mode. Atsuki Kodō no Hate on Hard has many overlapping markers, whereas Very Hard spaces the markers out."