Talk:Ots-Toch

Facts and legends
My biggest aspiration for this article is to separate the facts we know from the legends we've been told and the false stories that have been disproved. Any help is greatly appreciated! Mingusboodle (talk) 21:27, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Religion
The article used to contrast Ots-Toch to Pocahontas because Ots-Toch rejected Christianity and returned to her Mohawk village without her Dutch husband, as opposed to Pocahontas adopting Christianity and moving to England with John Rolfe. Now the article simply says "They both adopted Christianity." Can anyone back this up with a reference? Canute (talk) 16:48, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Deleted section
I just deleted the section below. It has citation tags that are over a year old. I have found sources (albeit weak) that suggest Ots-Toch rejected Christianity, but have yet to find even one that claim she adopted Christianity. Even if she did, this long verse made up most of the article about her, and I find it rather dubious. I'm not so concerned about the political incorrectness of the poem, but it looks a lot more like a 19th century invention than a genuine song "written" by a 15th century Mohawk after she met some of the first Europeans to settle in the area. A family tree is not a reliable source, and the bit of trivia at the end about Braintree and the Adams family is completely irrelevant to the subject of the article.

In local lore, Ots-Toch is often compared to Pocahontas, as the two share many similarities. Both converted to Christianity. Ots- Toch, who was married at the age of fifteen to Cornelisse Van Slyke, is reported to have written this song as a young woman, sometime after the Dutch arrived. Though perhaps not considered politically correct in modern day vernacular, the song she sang to her children, which was passed down through generations to her descendants, goes as follows:

O'er the dark woods and forest wild My father in his wild nature smiled with tomahawk and bended bow to slay the reindeer and buffalo My brother in his bark canoe across the lake so gaily flew to catch the whitefish in the lake and shoot the wild ducks in the brake my mother in her wigwam sat with copious work and curious chat and I poor little Indian maid with acorn shells and wildflowers played and I beside my mother all day to weave the splintered baskets gay to pound the samp and tan the skins and mend my fathers moccasins I could not read, I could not sew my Saviors name I did not know till white man to the forest came and taught poor Indian Jesus name He built a church and school house near with Holy hymns and wildwood cheer Now I can read, now I can sew My Saviors name I'm taught to know Now my Redeemer I implore God bless the white man forever more."

This song was passed down through generations of her descendants, most notably Mary Jane Van Alstyne Maltby, who, interestingly, was also a direct descendant of Henry Adams, the founder of Braintree Mass., the ancestor of the two United States Presidents, John Adams and John Quincy Adams.


 * I just removed this section again. We've been asking for citations since 2012 and it has never been provided.  Also, new source in page specifically calls out the song as family lore which is historically unclear and inaccurate.  If we decide the song belongs in this article, it needs to be clearly identified as family lore or backed up with a reliable source that claims otherwise.  (Family trees are very interesting but are definitely not reliable sources.) Canute (talk) 14:36, 23 September 2019 (UTC)