Talk:Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben

Age
Two sources state the graben was formed ~ 175 mya. and   The first is from National Resources Canada, and gives the 175 mya figure and also states the graben was formed in the Mesozoic. The second is copied from the first (or from a common source). The more technical and scholarly papers cited in the article however associate it with faulting, volcanism, and rock formation much earlier; up to 600 mya. Kablammo (talk) 15:09, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Twang Merger
i am categorically opposed to merging this article with that on the ottawa valley twang. one is on geology,the other on linguistics. while the connection is obvious, the differences are more so." while there is no evidence that the twang was spoken 175 million years ago-" ??? if it is to be merged, an article on canadian english is more appropriate. wait a minute, is this a put-on?Toyokuni3 (talk) 05:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * An article about a geologic feature doesn't mean has to be entirely about geology. Would you considered all communities in the Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben a geologic feature? Of cource not. And a standard article on Canadian English would be less appropriate, because the Ottawa Valley Twang is only spoken in the Ottawa Valley, which is part of the Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben. Black Tusk 20:20, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

i disagree entirely. a geology article should be about geology. and, by your rationale this article could include information about the canadian federal government, the ottawa senators, the history of woollen milling in almonte, the demographics of renfrew, cell phone penetration in arnprior,-.Toyokuni3 (talk) 15:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * See other geology articles about this issue (e.g. Mount St. Helens, Mount Shasta, Mount Meager) which contain human history, religion, etc. The Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben is not just a geologic structure, it's a large valley..... Black Tusk 17:45, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

This merge looks to be a possible result of the earlier (ill-advised, IMO) merge of Ottawa Valley into this article. The article Ottawa Valley is a section of this area, and I think most references to the Ottawa Valley have absolutely NOTHING to do with geology and some "graben" they've never heard of. I might go for some merging of the twang article into an article on the Ottawa Valley, but this seems to be an article sprawling far afield of its purpose. What's next? Merging Ottawa into this article? - If you want to mention language in this article, it's one thing, but it should be very short, and link to the twang article, not absorb it in this page. - Cafemusique (talk) 09:52, 25 April 2008 (UTC) [Edited for clarity. Cafemusique (talk) 09:55, 25 April 2008 (UTC)]
 * The Ottawa Valley Twang article has had the merge tag since September 27, 2007 when the Ottawa Valley had its own article. User:Kelapstick appears to have been the one who added the merge tag. Black Tusk 15:33, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Noted. And I can see a merge in the former situation, but given that Ottawa Valley has been merged into this article, I feel that the link between the twang and this article's subject is too tangential to be appropriate.  Personally, I'm not convinced that the merger of OV into this article was advisable, but that would be a separate discussion, if I wanted to pursue it. - Cafemusique (talk) 18:52, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree the twang article should be kept as a separate article. But I merged the Ottawa Valley article into the Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben article because the Ottawa Valley is part of the graben system. There's geology about the Ottawa Valley here which says the same thing; the Ottawa Valley is a rift valley, a dropped down block of bedrock several tens of kilometers wide, known as the Ottawa Bonnechere Graben. It seems like Ottawa Valley and the Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben are most likely the same thing, although this article includes the northwest arm of the graben (Temiskaming Graben). Black Tusk 19:10, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Neither Ottawa Valley Twang, nor Ottawa Valley for that matter, should be merged with this article. Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:08, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You obviously don't know the connection between the Ottawa Valley and the Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben; they are the same thing. There's no need for a redundant article. Black Tusk 22:31, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Please kindly review WP:AGF and WP:Civility. It is not really appropriate to dismiss the views of other editors by advising them they do not know the facts.  In fact, I am from the Ottawa Valley.  It is a good thing to assume that other editors are just as capable as you are of understanding the relevant facts, but can come to different conclusions.  Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:34, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I will chime in with my opinion that there should be a separate Ottawa Valley article. The Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben refers to a distinct geological formation.  The Ottawa Valley is a region, but its definition is more cultural - the lower part of the valley is very rarely referred to the Ottawa Valley despite being a part of the Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben.  If the articles must be merged, I propose renaming the article to Ottawa Valley as the name encompasses the cultural elements of the region while the Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben refers exclusively to the geological elements. Jamincan (talk) 19:42, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clearing up my confusion. No renaming has to be made and Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben is a broader formation, and can refer to the Timiskaming Graben as well according to scientific sources. Not everything in the article is about geology - see the history section. Black Tusk (talk) 01:12, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Propose separating Ottawa Valley from Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben
The Ottawa Valley refers to a region of Ontario and Quebec and has very strong cultural connotations. The Ottawa Valley happens to be partially defined by the Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben, a depressed area of land associated with a rift zone. The Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben does include the entire Ottawa Valley; however, the title references the geological feature and is neither commonly used to refer to the area (outside of geological circles), nor does it adequately reflect the rich cultural aspects of the Ottawa Valley which is arguably more notable. On the same note, the Ottawa Valley does not include the entirety of the Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben, not is it commonly used within geological circles to reference the feature.

It seems to me that the two refer to entirely separate things which just so happen to be approximately geographically contiguous. The Ottawa Valley refers to the valley through which the Ottawa River runs, and is specifically associated with the cultural aspects of the human settlement there. The Ottawa-Bonnechere Graben is a geological feature upon which the Ottawa Valley is found, but which only has relevance to geological circles and for which discussions about culture would be inappropriate. For this reason, I feel that the Ottawa Valley section should be split into its own article. Jamincan (talk) 20:20, 29 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I've gone ahead and split the articles as per the suggestion to be bold. It seems to me that it would be akin to merging Lake Superior into the Midcontinent Rift System article.  There is certainly a connection, but the two are not synonymous nor are they redundant. Jamincan (talk) 20:38, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Black Tusk (talk) 01:05, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Although the split was undertaken few months ago, for the purposes of the record I simply want to reiterate my comment above that the two articles ought not to have been merged in the first place. I agree with Jaminca's rationale.  The articles should not be re-merged unless there is clear consensus to do so (with the merge proposal posted at WP:CANTALK so as to get more input).  --Skeezix1000 (talk) 18:36, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

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