Talk:Ottawa Senators (original)

Inconsistencies on this page
I've been tasked on doing hockey research for the Eastern Ontario region and have had the unfortunate pleasure of cleaning up the odd inaccuracies on various pages so far and have taken notes on pages that will need to be created. Every now and then I get some facts that lead me to the Ottawa Hockey Club but I opt to leave that page alone for now as I have sufficient other areas to work on at the moment.

One of my concerns is that the current page has a different name then its infobox. Either this is the Ottawa Hockey Club page or the Ottawa Senators (original) page. In all honesty having two varying names looks very unprofessional.

Secondly, Ottawa Senators (original) seems inaccurate as the team was not actually called that for several years.

Thirdly, we must keep in mind that citations will be added to other articles in Wikipedia and could in turn send the reader to this page. If the information is then contradictory it is counterproductive, 

For example: I have update the "Jim Durrell Recreation Centre" Wikipedia page with the following information;  Several names were proposed for the new arena, among them were, Senator's Memorial Arena, Colonel By Arena and Billings Arena,[6] the Silver Seven Stadium (to commemorate the Silver Seven hockey team which won the Stanley Cup in 1903, 1904 and 1905),[7] but it was eventually decided to simply keep it as Walkley Arena.[8]

Now I have clear newspaper citations for this addition to the page. Clearly there is a conflict with who won the Staley Cup the first three years, Silver Seven or Senators, yes it may be the same team, so are the Hartford Whalers and Carolina Hurricanes, but unless we can clearly cite that the team is the same team with same ownership or that there was a transfer of ownership then should we not refrain from lumping it all under one grouping, and if the lineage is there, should it not be properly identified in the infobox like othe hockey clubs?

Well, sorry for the vent, just got a little frustrated with the inconsistencies.Slave1 13:14, 30 July 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slave28 (talk • contribs)


 * This page has been reviewed several times. You can rely on the information on this page. It is extensively cited. There are articles for the various seasons of the club too. So it is well-backed. If you have any interest on the topic further you should read the Win, Lose or Wrangle book on the team that covers this time period, and Joan Finnigan's books. If anything, the inconsistencies come from other information about ice hockey in the area. The article is titled Ottawa Senators (original) following Wikipedia guidelines. The name of Ottawa Senators is the best-known name for the club, though it was always the Ottawa Hockey Club from its founding. The club was an amateur organization for many years until a few years before 1910. It was affiliated with the Ottawa Athletic Association. It became its own organization when it became professional and the ownership of that legal entity changed over time, but the Ottawa Hockey Association was always the owner. Alaney2k (talk) 14:33, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * If you're doing research into the early years of hockey, there's an extremely important principle you need to absorb: standardized team nicknames reflecting the legal name of the team, with a clear lineage and succession, didn't often exist. This sort of thing bugs the hell out of the modern researcher and writer, who wants things in nice, even pigeonholes.  In several cases, the nicknames by which teams are known never were any part of the official team name, but were bestowed by sportswriters and gained common currency: the Toronto Blueshirts, the Renfrew Creamery Kings, the Vancouver Millionaires, the Quebec Bulldogs.  This is the case here; both the "Senators" and the "Silver Seven" nicknames were bestowed by the media, caught on with the fans, and neither ever formed any part of the official franchise name.  The Silver Seven nickname was ephemeral, and pretty much applied exclusively to the McGee-Westwick-Pulford-Gilmour team of the early 20th century. That being said, WP:COMMONNAME enjoins us to use the name most commonly used in English-language sources, and the one for the franchise is the Ottawa Senators.  It's no different than that we don't have separate articles for the Detroit Cougars or the Toronto Arenas, or that there are separate articles for the many nickname twists and turns Major League Baseball teams have had over the decades.  If there are people confused by the infobox having a different name than the article, I rely upon my standard advice: read the article.   Ravenswing   15:16, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

-Let me first clarify, I have no issues whatsoever with how the article is written. It is quite a great read actually. Furthermore, being native of Ottawa, pigeonholing the Senators should be a hereditary right ... all joking aside though (I'm a Lightning fan and Red Wings fan, Stevie Y for life), my concern mainly lies with information, and I am referring to legitimate citations and references, that would contradict or maybe put something on this page look inconsistent with a statement on another page. I can't just leave facts out of a page because it contradicts another page can I? I am a little perplexed on how to handle the situation being new to editing. I am currently working on one article, meticulously researching and slowly adding to it until I feel there is enough to have it switched with the current stub that is in its place, all the while adding tidbits of information to other pages as I come across them. I have great respect for Ravenswing as he has come and helped me when I got caught off guard in a particular situation I did not know how to deal with, so I will always pay attention to any words of wisdom that he may have jotted down, not to say I am not reading yours Alaney2k, I am always ready to learn how to better deliver quality information, just want to make sure I approach everything properly, and using the talk page is what DMighton taught me. One final note, I realize that the Silver Seven name was ephemeral to some, but from 1903 to 1906 they defended the Stanley Cups eleven times ... a little more then a blip on the radar I would think. :) Slave1 20:37, 30 July 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slave28 (talk • contribs)

-- Here is a link from a book I withdrew from the Ottawa Public Library earlier today to help with my research, I was surprised to find it on Google. Clearly states a name change to Ottawa Senators in 1909. I will leave it up to you guys to do what you wish with this information. My goal is to work my way up to the Senators articles as they are, not edit them. http://books.google.ca/books?id=4tS3TfOfXnEC&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=Ottawa+City+Archives+%23CA-1222&source=bl&ots=QBNgXFXNtS&sig=wVTkk2gFVaFUl5PRGXEGO2DpfgU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AGDZU7nwOZGwyATv9oKoCg&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Ottawa%20City%20Archives%20%23CA-1222&f=false Slave1 21:27, 30 July 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slave28 (talk • contribs)

---I'm a little on the O.C.D. side ... here is the proper citation for the first use of the nickname Senators, not sure who the main contributor to the article is, I think I saw Alaney2k come up a few times so I'll let him place it where he thinks it should go. Slave1 23:42, 30 July 2014 (UTC)