Talk:Ouachita Baptist University/Archive 1

Organization
In the alumni section of Oklahoma Baptist University's page, they divide the alumni into categories like sports, public officials, etc. On this page the alumni section seems a little unorganized; should this be reorganized to match that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Christofiel (talk • contribs) 17:36, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Chris McGee?
Yeah, I know of a Chris McGee that attended OBU, but I don't think this one did. I believe citation is needed.

University Ranking
I believe this should be added to main article:

Ouachita Baptist University has been ranked the number one baccalaureate college in the south according to the 2008 issue of “America’s Best Colleges” by U.S. News and World Report. OK Now 7 (talk) 07:06, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Assessment
A proper lead and some sourcing would get this to C class. Aboutmovies (talk) 08:21, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Changes
Have filtered out some statements per WP:NPOV and fixed some grammar. Also tagged for various neutrality and citation issues. Cmiych (talk) 21:36, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Added some citations. 63.249.56.94 (talk) 00:44, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

REVERT
Please do not remove cited information without talking about it here first. Athletic information also reverted for NPOV. Please rephrase to add. Information added to introduction belongs in the "Academics" section. Most of it was already present. Please cite all additions.Cmiych (talk) 18:30, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Again, anonymous user, please refrain from reverting edits of cited information without discussing the issue here first. Cmiych (talk) 15:51, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Third time user has attempted to make the same edits. Please discuss these changes here before attempting again.  Thank you Cmiych (talk) 20:39, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

changes
Line 24: Made minor alterations to tighten writing. Removed paragraph about Old Main fire as anecdotal.

Line 38: Removed "small classes are the norm" as weasel words.

Line 55: United Kingdom includes Scotland and England so the parenthetical information is redundant. Removed Hong Kong from list of countries because it is part of China, not an independent nation.

Line 97: Removed information that lacked a neutral point of view.

Line 111: Removed information that lacked a neutral point of view or contained weasel words. Updated and alphabetized list of clubs to current information and removed unnecessary charter dates. Reference to club that no longer exists seems unnecessary. Removed puffery to tighten Religious Affiliation section.

References are needed for almost all sections, probably links to relevent sections of the university website or college catalog. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.252.88.140 (talk) 00:10, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

thank you

 * Most of the edits look very good. This article seems to have been neglected for some time and I've been slowly trying to update it.  I agree that there needs to be ALOT of sourcing. Currently, most of this article reads like a promotional pamphlet for the school.  I am searching out adequate sources as well as more thorough information on the school.


 * Specifically- I don't know who put the "puffery" into the Religious Affliation. I had actually already toned it down some.  I was putting the "southern baptist roots" back in because it had long been there, and I assumed it was appropriate.


 * I am still unsure that the section regarding social life is adequate but will leave it as is for the time being. A section that includes clubs that have lost official recognition and are no longer recognized and/or active may be an acceptable compromise.  This is a relatively timeless encyclopedia entry is it not?


 * I am going to remove and move many of the tags I placed on the article. I encourage you to create a Wikipedia account and join the community.  Also, please remember to sign your talk page posts with four tildes ~ ~ ~ ~ (no spaces).  Thanks.  More to come when work slows down.

Cmiych (talk) 00:30, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Also, in regard to "References are needed for almost all sections, probably links to relevent sections of the university website or college catalog"... EXTERNAL sources are needed. According to Wikipedia policy, the school's own website is not acceptable sourcing.Cmiych (talk) 00:32, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Inactive Social Clubs
Isn't it overkill to put this much detail into one section?

Also, note that many of the dates are not the official charter date. Technically, the clubs do not exist until they are chartered as student organizations. For example, the Kewpies were formed in secret in November 1917 and not officially recognized until the ban on social clubs was lifted in 1919. Several of these clubs – such as those formed in the 1910's – were never officially recognized.

This is a rough listing. If this information should be included, I can find better references and more complete information.

Inactive Women's Social Clubs:

Sigma Sigma (1910-14), Phi Delta Nu (1911-14), Zeta Mu (1913 only), Kewpie Klub (1918-49; chartered 1919), W.C.F. (late Upsilon Kappa Phi) (1927-62), High Hats (1937-50; chartered 1937), Phi Delta Sigma (1939-43; chartered 1939), Hi-Hats (Delta Kappa Delta) (1962-64; chartered 1962), Theta Lambda Tau (1965-70; chartered 1965), and Alpha Lambda Omega (1988 only; chartered 1988).

Inactive Men's Social Clubs:

U.F.A. (1911-14), Delta Delta Kappa (1912-14), Psi Sigma Phi (1928-31), S.L.V. (1931-32), Sigma Alpha Sigma (1932-?; chartered 1936), Alpha Omega Eta (1953-78; chartered 1953 and rechartered 1956), and Delta Omega Mu (1979-80; chartered 1979).

Sources for this information include the campus newspaper and yearbook back issues and "A History of Men's Social Organizations at Ouachita Baptist University," an Honors Program paper by Mark Chapel (1973) found in the OBU library. There are no known external sources.

70.128.32.104 (talk) 18:38, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll have do do some research into wikipedia policy to see if such a paper is considered a reliable source. Is there an online version of it it? Overall, it seems to be very relevent to the history of the school (as much as a list of past presidents).  Again, I am having a very busy week at work, but will look over it all this weekend.  Cmiych (talk) 20:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Like the yearbooks and old campus newspapers, the Honors Program paper is available as a hard copy only and cannot be checked out of Ouachita's library (special collections). I imagine these are just about the only sources available on the subject. 70.232.80.138 (talk) 19:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Update
My watchlist shows several changes to this talk page with none initially apparent. Please avoid editing posts on this page. Updates are preferable to changes. I have added the inactive social clubs and formatted the section a bit. Will continue to do so as time allows. Even outside of the section in question, the entire article needs some solid sourcing...  I again encourage whoever seems to be conversing with me to register an account... thanks Cmiych (talk) 07:46, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

minor changes
Made minor corrections to dates in Social Clubs section. Added two inactive clubs that had been left out. Ordered inactive social clubs earliest to latest to match active social clubs. Username57 (talk) 20:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Welcome Username57. The clubs were already in order to most recent active date. Will leave the new clubs added, but intend to reorganize to orginal format after work. Please see the wikipedia policy on removing intentional red links in wikipedia pages. I am currently working on an article for Sigma Alpha Sigma, thus the link. Also, please reserve "minor edit" for things such as punctuation or typo corrections, not reorganization or correction of information. Cmiych (talk) 20:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Here are some observations on the social club section:

1) The inclusion of all these dates and dead clubs seems excessive. Other campus organizations are not even listed. According to the article, 80% of the student body do not belong to these social clubs. Is this much detail really necessary? The inactive clubs are no longer part of the university. Why should they be included at all?

2) Many of the changes seem to revolve around placing one of the dead clubs, Sigma Alpha Sigma, in a more prominent position in this article. For example, the active social clubs are listed with the oldest first and the most recent last. Shouldn't the inactive clubs be listed in matching fashion, with the oldest clubs first and the most recently formed last? Also, was Sigma Alpha Sigma formed in spring 1932 or fall 1932? If fall 1932 as previously listed, if falls under the school year 1933 and should be so listed to be consistent with the other social club dates.

3) The appearance of the section is not consistent with the rest of the article. Fonts and font sizes should match. Username57 (talk) 23:36, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * 1a- Feel free to add any other organizations of the school.


 * 1b- If the "80%" information cannot be backed up, then it should be removed.  I know we are short on sourcing at the moment, but if you believe it to be invalid, please remove it.


 * 1c- If you feel the list is too long, I would be more than happy to create a List of Ouachita Baptist University Social Clubs article to include both active and inactive clubs with a "See Also" reference in the Student Life section.


 * 2a- Would you argue that Sigma Alpha Sigma or any of the other inactive clubs have had no significant effect on the school?  If so, then I would be more than happy to entertain not including these clubs; if not, my personal feelings and yours are inconsequential and they should be included.  This is in fact an encyclopedia entry, not an advertisement for the school in its current state.  Furthermore, please refrain from assuming my intentions.  I have been consistently attempting to positively contribute to the article.  And have intentionally avoided assuming yours.  If you feel my edits are inappropriate, feel free to report me or request arbitration.


 * 2b- Technically, the current clubs are listed primarily by their "end date" (current) and secondarily by their charter date.  Therefore, the layout of inactive clubs is consistent.  This is not something I am passionate about, but I'd be very interested in knowing why you feel so strongly about changing it.


 * 2c- The charter date in question is one thing in this entire article that I can actually find sourcing for. I will do so as soon as I can attain access to the documentation.  Furthermore, I am not sure I agree with your position on the dating for any of the clubs.  A charter year is the year in which a club is chartered.  Period.  If you can locate information to differentiate between fall/spring for the clubs, please add and cite it.


 * 3- I'll fix it at my earliest convenience. Feel free to do so yourself if you so desire (see  WP:BOLD as well as Single Purpose Account and WP:NOT in regard to earlier comments).  Again, welcome to the community. Cmiych (talk) 03:32, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Eta Alpha Omega was founded/recieved their charter on April 1, 1997. The other date is not in a yearbook or anything.... so yeah... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bal42992 (talk • contribs) 18:07, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

According to information in the Ouachita student newspaper, Chi Iota Sigma and Eta Alpha Omega both received their charter from Ouachita on the same date, just before spring induction in 1998. Eta Alpha Omega, according to several accounts in various yearbooks, was formed in fall 1997. I find no evidence that it was founded on April 1 (April Fool's Day) in 1997. 70.232.32.171 (talk) 00:22, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

club section
Some of the conflict may have been caused by differing views on what the article should be. I see this article as an encyclopedia entry focused on what Ouachita Baptist University IS rather than a historical record of what it WAS. Of course, the social clubs have had an impact on student life. I was simply pointing out that the majority of students do not belong to them; other activities are at least equal in impact. My input has been prompted by a desire for accuracy and consistency so, as you say, do not presume motivations.

A "See Also" reference would be welcome and would streamline the article while still providing the historical or background information. I would be happy to help you with such an article. I have access to information about the clubs although the documentation is spotty (or nonexistent in many cases). Maybe if we pool our resources we can come up with a decent entry. Although I think it makes more sense to list the clubs by the year introduced, I suppose they might be listed by longevity instead. As long as there is consistency, I have no problem. I also agree that the charter dates should be used. Technically, the clubs do not exist at Ouachita until they are recognized (chartered) by the university. However, charter dates may not be available for most of the inactive clubs (and some of the active ones). Perhaps as long as they are clearly marked as either "formed" or "chartered" (or both), that will be enough. Username57 (talk) 15:43, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

social club history overview
Posted a rough overview of Ouachita Baptist social club history on Username57 talk page for use in creating a historical section. Username57 (talk) 16:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

additions to student life
Added bullets. Added other student organizations. Changed social club years as requested (i.e., when fall 1936, changed founding year to 1936 instead of year ending 1937). 70.232.81.129 (talk) 19:23, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Kewpie Club listed twice. Removed extra listing. 70.232.81.129 (talk) 19:25, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry I haven't been able to contribute in a while. Thinking on this, it might be best to organize alphabetically? Thoughts? Cmiych (talk) 19:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Article clean-up
The list of frats has been removed from the article in accordance with MOS, explicitly WP:NOTDIRECTORY. Furthermore, it violates WP:GACR #3, as it presents unnecessary details. It's not that merging it back is a preferable option, it's that the information doesn't merit inclusion here at all. Several alumni have also been removed that do not adhere with WP:PEOPLE or for whom articles will never be created (see WP:RED). --128.84.198.38 (talk) 13:01, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Updated accreditations
Just an update on the accreditations based on the referenced website. Added Miss Arkansas 2010 as Notable Graduate (hey, she has a wikipedia page after all :-) MilSF1 (talk) 22:36, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Article improvement
I spent some time attempting to revise article to a more neutral one. BUT, it still carries the Wikipedia "It is written like an advertisement and needs to be rewritten from a neutral point of view. Tagged since June 2009." line. Has anyone reviewed the changes? Still not neutral enough? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ozzie42 (talk • contribs) 21:55, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Chad Griffin removed
Since he only attended 1 yr at OBU and then, later, graduated from Georgetown, he is not an alumnus of OBU. It would be more appropriate to add him under Georgetown alumni. MilSF1 (talk) 23:42, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. --j⚛e deckertalk 05:23, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Coordinate error
The following coordinate fixes are needed for Ouachita Baptist University: N 34.12546 W 93.05276

—Robert B. Livingston (talk) 06:36, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅. Looks like someone made a typo of "92" for "93" in the longitude. Deor (talk) 15:51, 30 April 2016 (UTC)