Talk:Our Lady of Fátima

Name of Mary
I agree with using a neutral name for the Wikilink to Mary in the lead, however, I think it would be more intuitive to use "mother of Jesus", rather than "mother of God". The latter is itself a marian title, where as mother of Jesus is unambiguous. –Zfish118⋉talk 15:05, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The mother of Jesus is internationally known and called as "the Virgin Mary". Evereyone knows it. Anjo-sozinho (talk) 08:36, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * "Everyone knows it" is not a sufficient reason. You'll need a consensus for that change. OhNo itsJamie Talk 14:10, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

More than a year later
More than a year later is redundant, when the exact date for the prediction and end of war are in the narrative. –Zfish118⋉talk 16:25, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

The look of the lady and other issues
My editions are constantly reverted by Rafaelosornio. But they are very well referenced and well written. He does not read the books and then complains of failed verification. One of the books is a publication by the Catholic Church. He is just vandalizing. All he has to do is read the books ! I remember you the apparition is not a dogma, catholics do not have to believe it. If you read the book, free book, "Documentação Crítica de Fátima: seleção de documentos (1917-1930)" (a PDF) by the Church itself, you will find what as said by Lucia, and Jacinta, and Francisco. I know the books are in portuguese language, but it is easy to translate the relevant parts. ~ Mcorrlo (talk) 20:17, 30 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The part about how the children described our lady is already described above. The children described her as "a Lady more brilliant than the Sun". Also the English version does not say skirt but dress. The book never mentions a skirt, I have the same book in English language and it says completely different things than what you mention. You are doing a terrible translation from Portuguese to English. Furthermore, the way you have written the section itself is terrible. --Rafaelosornio (talk) 22:25, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The descritions of the lady you are talking about are later descriptions. I am talking about the first descriptions, the very first descriptions. I do not know about a english version of the "documentation" (exists?) and if it is says "dress" and "completely different things" is a wrong translation.
 * The portuguese book is a more fiable source, better than your corrupt version in english language.
 * My terrible translation? Can you explain? The section is maybe terrible because you do not like it?
 * My conclusion is that you are a vandal trying to completely erase something that does not fit your vision of things. Again, I recomend you read the books, and stop vandalizing the page.Sorry, but I am reverting again.  ~ Mcorrlo (talk) 16:06, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I remove the thing about Manuel Nunes Formigão, since that is in the article above, please read the article before repeating the same thing, why repeat it twice? And about the description of the Lady there are many in the book. I will put many of them here. Rafaelosornio (talk) 17:25, 31 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The first description of 50 different descriptions of the Lady is on page 33:


 * "She was dressed in white socks and an all-gold suit; she had no shoes; her skirt was white and gold and reached her knees; the gold was for the strings to be crossed and the strings for the beaks; white coat all gold; a mantle over his head was white and all gold; her hands lifted to her waist and opened, separating them when she spoke to Lucia; ....She had some white beads in her hands, held between the thumb and index finger of both hands; she saw no earrings; she wore a thin gold chain around her neck....."


 * The second description is on page 79: "this Lady was dressed in white and had a blue cloak over her head; She had her hands on her chest, palms to her chest underneath each other. Her skirt was white and long and reached her feet; it seems to her that the white skirt and coat were not gold."


 * The third description is on page 83: "The lady was young, she had a tight skirt. She doesn't know what a pleated skirt is, and she has seen ladies with pleated skirts but the lady's dress was not. She didn't notice if the dress was complete."


 * The fourth description is on page 173: "The Lady was a little more or less than one meter tall and was dressed in white. Her skirt was white and gold with little strings running along and across and it was short, that is, it didn't go down to her feet. The coat was white not gold. White cloak, which went from the head to the edge of the skirt, gold in small strings from top to bottom and across, at the edges the gold was closer. The coat had two or three little golden cords on the cuffs. There was no belt, no ribbon, no waistband."


 * The fourth description is on page 30: "Then they saw a woman on top of a carrasqueira, dressed in white, with white socks on her feet, a white gold skirt, a white coat, a white cloak, which she wore over her head, the cloak was not gold and the skirt was all gold across it, it had a gold cord and some very small earrings, it had the hands raised and when he spoke he extended his arms and opened his hands."


 * These are the times that the word skirt is mentioned, in the later descriptions of the Lady the word dress is used.--Rafaelosornio (talk) 17:58, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

False information and failed verification
User Mcorrlo adds the following false information in the article:

NUMBER ONE:

"state that the apparition was about 1.10 meters tall "

But page 173 of the book "Documentação Crítica de Fátima Seleção de documentos (1917-1930)" says the following in Portuguese language: "Tell Lúcia that Senhora, que ela e seus primos viram, tinha um a little more or less than a meter tall and came dressed in white."

Translated into English it says the following:

"I told Lúcia that the Lady, who she and her cousins saw, had a little more or less than one meter tall and dressed in white."

You can check it out for yourself by downloading the book in Portuguese for free here:

https://www.fatima.pt/files/upload/fontes/F001_DCF_selecao.pdf

'''NUMBER TWO: '''

User Mcorrlo adds the following: "and looked like a child 12 to 15 years old" But page 173 of the book "Documentação Crítica de Fátima Seleção de documentos (1917-1930)" says the following in Portuguese language: "Que idade parece ter a Senhora? – Parece ter uns quinze anos." Translated into English it says the following: "How old does the lady appear to be? – She looks about fifteen years old."

NUMBER THREE:

User Mcorrlo adds the following: "her skirt was white and gold, with long crossed strings and was short, to her knees or a little below, and tight."

But page 81 says the following:


 * 17 - De que cor era o vestido e como trazia os braços?
 * 17 - Vestido todo branco, em baixo apertado, mãos erguidas.

Translated into English:


 * 17- What color was her dress and how did she hold her arms?
 * 17 - All white dress, tight from below, hands raised.

The user adds completely different things to the original source.

NUMBER FOUR:

User Mcorrlo adds the following:

"She had white stockings. Her coat was white and she also had a white cloak, which went down from her head to the hem of her skirt, with gold strings running from top to bottom. "

But it says the following in Portuguese language:

"depois viram uma mulher em cima duma carrasqueira, vestida de branco, nos pés meias brancas, saia branca dourada, casaco branco, manto branco, que trazia pela cabeça, o manto não era dourado e a saia era toda dourada a atravessar, trazia um cordão de ouro "

Translated into English:

"then they saw a woman on top of a carrasqueira, dressed in white, with white socks on her feet, a white gold skirt, a white coat, a white cloak, which she wore over her head, the cloak was not gold and the skirt was all gold across, it had a string of gold"

From page 30 to 35 it never mentions stockings but rather socks.

'''NUMBER FIVE: '''

User Mcorrlo adds the following: The jacket had two or three strings on the cuffs. She had a golden cord around her neck, which ended with a small ball; she had very small yellow buttons (or rings) in her ears. In her hands she carried a rosary of white beads, also luminous, which ended in a cross. On her head, she had a sort of "small  basket" which also radiated light. She never smiled.

None of the pages mentioned (84, 164, 231-234) say that: "On her head, she had a sort of small basket"

You yourselves can download the book in Portuguese and search for the pages mentioned if it says that.

The user has formed a false description that the sources do not contain and says that it is the primary description of the Lady, the primary account in fact is the first description of the Lady made in page 173. There is the first description of the Lady said by Lúcia.