Talk:Out-of-pocket expense

Additional Meaning of out of pocket.
This phrase is commonly used in the finance and business industries to mean "unavailable" or "unreachable". For instance, if I am about to get on a plane to China I might comment to my boss: "I'll be out of pocket for the next 15 hours but I'll be back on my blackberry after that." Its possible that this usage is erronius but it certainly is common. Here are to links that mention the usage I'm talking about:

http://www.word-detective.com/012000.html

I'm especially apprehensive about answering your question because I'm afraid that your brother's case is very strong. "Out of pocket" is indeed usually used as a sort of shorthand for "paying out of one's own pocket that which should (and usually ultimately will) be paid by someone else." Interestingly, the original sense of "out of pocket" when it first appeared around 1693 was not so hopeful. It meant to be either "broke" or "the loser in a financial transaction."

However, and here's where your case gains strength, around 1974 "out of pocket" also started being used to mean "out of touch" or "unavailable." No one seems to know exactly why this sense arose or what the "pocket" in this case might be. Personally, I suspect that it's a bad translation of some French phrase. In any case, this sense of "out of pocket" is not, as far as I can tell, widely used. A more common phrase meaning the same thing is "out of the loop," which first appeared around 1983 and is probably rooted in computer terminology.

But the bottom line is that you're both right, although your brother is a bit more likely to be clearly understood when he uses "out of pocket."

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/23717

Why are people said to be "out of pocket" when they are travelling (especially business travel)?

This is from Random House, the dictionary publisher...... The phrase out of pocket also means 'out of place; out of order', and often describes unacceptable behavior or situations. This meaning has its roots in Black English of the 1940s, and refers to the pockets on a pool table. An example from a recent edition of The Los Angeles Times: "Any outsider who would attempt to engage in that conversation would be out of pocket."

Whitewalt 17:01, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * These senses belong (if anywhere) on Wiktionary. Rich Farmbrough, 11:56, 20 July 2010 (UTC).

Doesn't belong in an encyclopaedia
Out of pocket is a phrase with a meaning rather than a topic with a number of facets, and an article on it is appropriate for a dictionary, but not an encyclopaedia. Does anyone disagree? Pol098 (talk) 14:39, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Does belong in an encyclopaedia
To the comment above, yes, i do disagree. (And please let me tell you why). Please note that this article is not on the phrase 'Out of Pocket' but on an actual economic term, which is called 'Out-of-pocket expenses' (which happens to be an important economic concept). Nowhere in the article does it actually talk about the phrase 'Out of pocket', therefore, on that basis, this article should stay. --Shan123456 (talk) 18:54, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. MaynardClark (talk) 15:37, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Quality upgrade?
I think that writing style of the general text could be improved for clarity. Could this be done for the entire article? MaynardClark (talk) 15:37, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Examples are just plain confusing
Whether the cost of fuel is an out-of-pocket expense depends on whether you are being reimbursed for it, not because it is paid on the spot rather than as a lump sum for a service over an extended period. If whomever you're driving for reimburses you for it, it is not out-of-pocket. Vehicle insurance (for example, for a vehicle leased for you by your employer) could equally easily be out-of-pocket or reimbursed by the employer. So in this case, the lease might be paid directly by the employer (you never touch the money), you're reimbursed for insurance (you pay now and get reimbursed later), but the fuel comes out of your own money and only the latter is "out-of-pocket"38.23.161.163 (talk) 19:40, 21 January 2024 (UTC)