Talk:Outlaw country

Article improvements
This article needs some help. It's lacking reliable sources and many of the existing citations go to dead links. There's also some key information missing, for example details on the role of Waylon Jennings and Willie Nelson in the early outlaw years as they regained creative control from the recording industry. There are many different theories among music scholars as to the causes and origins of this movement (see http://www.cmt.com/news/1708191/nashville-skyline-outlaws-all-over-again/).

I'm also going to merge the "female outlaws" section into the other sections, since musicians like Jessi Colter and Tanya Tucker were high-profile members of this movement from the early years. It might also be worth a section on "modern outlaws".

I'm working on a rewrite here in case anyone wants to join: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Julietvbarbara/sandbox/outlaw_country

Julietvbarbara 19:41, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

But then I repeat myself
Is it proper to have this same paragraph, verbatim, repeated in both the "origin" and the "development" sections? I got DeJaVu reading the article.

"In 1976, the Outlaw Movement reached a new milestone with the release of Wanted! The Outlaws, a compilation album featuring songs sung by Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson, Jessi Colter, and Tompall Glaser. Wanted! The Outlaws became the first country album to be platinum-certified, reaching sales of one million.[13]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.51.255.91 (talk) 03:09, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
 * You are free to edit the article yourself – my advice is to BE BOLD and make the changes you believe should be made. '''[[User:Life of Tau|Life ]][[User talk:Life of Tau|of ]]Tau''' 04:02, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Steve Earle
A user has twice removed Steve Earle from the paragraph on Texan Country artists within the outlaw ethos. I am not an expert on the genre, but have often seen his work referred to as a Outlaw Country. I would like to hear other arguments. Clearly he works in other genres, but arguably other artists here do so as well. Sirius radio considers him outlaw country, for what that is worth. The cited reason for removal seems problematic: "He has never been part of the Texas country music scene and is now based in new York City."

Earle largely grew up in Texas and was clearly formed by hanging out with Van Zandt and Clark in his teens and early 20's. That he moved to Nashville and later to NY is irrelevant. After all Nelson also lived in Nashville and LA.

Perhaps there is a more general need here to separate those who followed on the footsteps of the first generation. (Note: I was not the person who reverted the first deletion, and am on this page for the first time.)   131.238.30.145 (talk) 00:18, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Mislabeling of information
What the author is calling "Texas Country", namely Jason Boland and the Stragglers and Cross Canadian Ragweed, is actually Red Dirt Country, and they definately need to be removed, as both bands were major roles in the forming of Red Dirt. And Hank Williams III is definately anything but Texas country, he defines himself as "Hellbilly", but the author was spot on the the alt-country tag, but to go further than that, it's cowpunk or hellbilly. This article definately needs a better looking over.BlueEyesInTheRain 17:40, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

outlaw country vs. country rock
What is the difference between outlaw country and country rock? I am a fan of country music, but I've never understood this distinction, and the Wikipedia articles on the subjects do nothing to clarify the differences. Is it simply a matter of the themes expressed in the lyrics, or is there more to it than that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Isn't the term "Outlaw country" used to describe a wartime entry into enemy territory? At least, it was a term used in Vietnam, I believe. Or would that be Outlaw Country? RickK 05:57, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * It may well be another meaning for the term but within wikipedia it has been used in the musical sense. If you check the links to the article you will note that "Outlaw country" is referred to in articles associated with country music.  Tiles 04:26, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I think Ray Wylie Hubbard is another serious outlaw, especially with his last seven records. He is certainly more outlaw than Big & rich. 24.13.86.24 00:28, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the military term is actually "Indian country"; a reference to wild west days in US history. At least that's the term I have heard used, not "Outlaw country". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wschart (talk • contribs) 18:06, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Willie Nelson
Is this article about "Outlaw country" or Willie Nelson? Seems like it turns into a Willie Nelson biography half-way through. --Ortzinator 04:15, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Outlaw Revival
I have a real problem with producer- and industry-driven Nashville artists like Toby Keith and Big and Rich being included on a list of Outlaw Country revivalists. --RhodyJim 22:37, 09 September 2006 (UTC)

Delisted GA
The lead is waaaaaaay too long, a lead is supposed to summarize, not hold most of the article's content, as per WP:LEAD. Also, you should improve the number of references. Homestarmy 17:17, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Politics?
Did political differences with the older generation of country music play any part in the "outlaw" movement? It seems lots of the songs from the "outlaw country" singers express considerable liberal sentiment. "Ballad of Ira Hayes", "Man in Black", and "Deportee" immediately come to mind when I ponder Johnny Cash, and Willie Nelson makes no secret of his beliefs. I'm no country music scholar, but maybe one of you guys could elaborate on what appears to be a theme among the "outlaws". 146.7.30.148 (talk) 23:29, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

If anything outlaw country perhaps attracted musicians both to the left, and to the right of the center. Look at David Allan Coe and others, who were as far to the right, as Nelson and Black were to the left. It also attracted racist and sexually explicit songs that could never get airtime at the traditional country stations. Songs like "Ni**er Fu**er" for example. LOL! I guess Outlaw country is country's answer to gangsta rap! 94.191.186.212 (talk) 16:53, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

POV and promoting bands not on Wikipedia
I came here to see if the Dixie Chicks might have been in this category, although by the definition, it would appear that they are the other way around. I can't tell where a band would stand if they were primarily bluegrass, then country, then country with a alternative rock twist. ???

My main concern here though is finding names linked in such a fashion that when I checked, the following were NOT bands/people who even had articles on the Wikipedia. In fact, in one case, the person was Wiki-linked to a parent who is here, so someone just added the name with Jr. at the end and it takes you nowhere. I find a lot of similar articles as sites that some consider slick little dumping grounds for their favorite bands, or even themselves, hoping for some noteriety. I don't know if that's what's up here, but I am deleting these names: Robert Earl Keen Jr., Wade Bowen, Jimmy Aldridge (Aldridge was listed twice!) If you love an artist's work, and can be neutral about them, then, please, begin a page about them, but don't just bury them in lists. --leahtwosaints (talk) 22:18, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Ok deleting Robert Earl Keen Jr. and Jimmy Aldridge whatever those are both legit Country artists and Outlaw Country at that. Might not have Wikipedia pages on them but does not having a Wikipedia page make them not "real" musicians with a following? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.237.33.106 (talk) 04:14, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Merge "female outlaws" into other sections
I was surprised to see a separate section for "female outlaws". Why not include the information about those artists in the rest of the article? Many of the artists listed there are important figures in country music and should not be buried toward the bottom of the article. I also don't see a reason why we would need to segregate this genre between men and women.

There's also some problematic language that suggests these artists are second rate or less important:

"Although Outlaw country was mainly the domain of men, some women pursued musical careers in Country Music, considering themselves "Outlaws" as well..."

"Another woman who achieved the Outlaw success of her male counterparts was Sammi Smith, a singer from California."

I'd suggest merging the information about these artists into the rest of the article and using less condescending language. This content in this section also has some other issues and needs citations. I'll see what I can find. I'm happy to take the first shot at these edits but wanted to throw it out there for discussion. Julietvbarbara 05:27, 19 February 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julietvbarbara (talk • contribs)

Seeds of the Outlaw Movement?
Been doing some research, Texan Willie Nelson working at Liberty Records and some of his songs recorded there by fellow Texan Joe Carson (yep I started the Joe Carson page to resolve many bad links). Joe Carson also recorded and released a song written by Jerry Allison and Sonny Curtis (both also of Texas) called The Last Song (I'm Ever Gonna Sing) [|YouTube] in 1963 (story is that this is the last song that Carson actually sang, the night just before he died in a car crash). This tune is basically an anti-Nashville diatribe, and I have to speculate that this is related to the then-near-future rebellion out of Nashville and back to Texas led by Willie. Is there any support for this possibility; certainly not a complete coincidence? I would like to see this included in the story, and have it documented appropriately. Ronster76 (talk) 04:09, 30 August 2020 (UTC)