Talk:Outline of Christianity

Organizing the "Branches of Christianity" Section
When I first looked at this section (actually, the first several times I tried to edit it), it appeared to me to be a set of disjointed lists - I totally missed that it was set up as a two-way table with rows as well as columns. That may just be me, but I wonder if some additional visual clues might help.

I'm not sure what would be best. The most elegant solution would be to set it up as a table, but that might be difficult to maintain. Would a few well placed dividing lines, say between each "Denominational family," get us to almost the same place without as much effort? I may give that a shot. EastTN (talk) 14:30, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I've tried putting in some lines. Please take a look - it may help, but I'm not totally pleased with the result. EastTN (talk) 14:34, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Yea, it seems a little better. I am not sure what else to do. User talk:CarlaudeUser talk:Carlaude 04:10, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Reorganization and annotation
I am currently re-organizing this outline, adding annotations to each entry. I'd like to put the lists in columns, as they take up a great deal of space. Suggestions are welcome, but please don't delete the annotations. I see no point to annotating most list entries, either.Marikafragen (talk) 19:20, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * approximately finished. I'd like to annotate the lists, too, but to do so seems redundant. List of patriarchs of X church would annotate as "a list of patriarchs of X church". the links seem self-explanatory, and right now i'm going to leave them without annotation. I think there are some lists embedded in some of this outline that are not segregated into a "lists" section, but i'm going to leave that for now also. maybe it would be a good idea to move the lists of lists to a "see also" section?  I'm not sure how helpful a "list of popes" is to an outline of Christianity (the link is also present in the outline of Catholicism I developed the other day).Marikafragen (talk) 00:29, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Columnized the lists that seemed to be merely lists. Did not columnize the list of Patriarchs.  Only problem with columnization is that it detracts attention from the right columns.  ah, well.  It makes the outline less visually disturbing when we do the lists.Rdev43 (talk) 19:49, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * removed the Christian history navfooter, as its content is now duplicated. I'm hesitant to remove the navfooters for popes and patriarchs, although eventually I suppose we should.Rdev43 (talk) 19:58, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't get your edit
You reverted my edit to Outline of Christianity and listed the reason as "(Smith founded Latter Day Saint movement and Church of Christ (Latter Day Saints) but not "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". You are totally correct, but that is what my edit was making clear.

I changed the listing from
 * "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints – Church of Christ was the original name of the Latter Day Saint church founded by Joseph Smith, Jr.""

To and cited it.


 * "Church of Christ – The original name of the Latter Day Saint church founded by Joseph Smith, Jr. In 1838 this church would be renamed the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints."

Then I added a totally separate listing of


 * The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) - The largest denomination in the Latter Day Saint movement founded by Joseph Smith and headquartered in Salt Lake City, Utah.

This is completely consistent with your edit summery "(Smith founded Latter Day Saint movement and Church of Christ (Latter Day Saints) but not "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)"

The LDS Church is a Nontrinitarian denominations, and so was Smith's Church of Christ, so both deserve to be listed. So I'm not sure why you seem to disagree with my edit.--- ARTEST4ECHO (talk) 18:55, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Do you think that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the same as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? It isn't in 1838 Smith changed the name to Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (see Church of Christ (Latter Day Saints).  After 1844, Brigham Young re-incorporated the group who fallowed him after the Succession crisis (Latter Day Saints) into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
 * So Smith's sects were
 * Church of Christ from 1830 to 1834
 * Church of the Latter Day Saints from 1834 - 1838
 * Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints 1838 - 1844
 * After that the Young Group became
 * The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
 * --- ARTEST4ECHO (talk) 18:55, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 * All of these sects are Nontrinitarian denominations. However, not all Latter Day Saints sect are Nontrinitarian denominations, like the Community of Christ, which is a trinitarian denomination.--- ARTEST4ECHO (talk) 19:03, 27 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Dear ARTEST4ECHO, I agree with most of your edit. The part that you added, and that I mainly disagreed with was this:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) - The largest denomination in the Latter Day Saint movement founded by Joseph Smith and headquartered in Salt Lake City, Utah.
 * This is different from my edit summary. My edit summery said Smith founded... not The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. [small "d"] My point is that "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" [small "d"] was a name used only after Smith died and the Succession crisis (Mormonism) took place. For example, the current COC (LDS) article says: "Up to the time of Smith's assassination, the church was known alternatively as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints." [Large "D"] Any and every current body of the Latter Day Saint movement could claim to be founded by Smith, but for Wikipedia to pick any one of them as founded by Smith would be POV. There is no need to name a particular person as the founder of it anyhow.
 * You also comment-- "The LDS Church is a Nontrinitarian denominations, and so was Smith's Church of Christ, so both deserve to be listed."
 * This section is not made to be a listing of any and all nontrinitarian denominations-- that is why we have the links on the page to things like List of sects in the Latter Day Saint movement under the section Outline_of_Christianity. Since Smith's Church of Christ is not even extent anymore, that seems like the one to drop, unless we just drop all direct listings of nontrinitarian denominations. tahc chat 20:51, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 * But you changed my changed it to:
 * The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) - The largest denomination in the Latter Day Saint movement. "Church of Christ" was the original name of the Latter Day Saint church founded by Joseph Smith, Jr.
 * This is exactly the same thing only worded differently.
 * Exactly opposite of what your edit summery said. I just think there is some confusion as to what you were saying verses what you did.--- ARTEST4ECHO (talk) 21:04, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Also you have now removed the denominations completely. You say "This section is not made to be a listing of any and all nontrinitarian denominations", but the Protestant and Catholic have denominations listings.  If your going to removed one denomination section, you should remove all.--- ARTEST4ECHO (talk) 21:09, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 * See below. tahc chat 21:16, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Latter Day Saint movement listing in the Nontrinitarian section
While I think it's ok for the time being, I think that the listing of the Latter Day Saint movement is partially incorrect. It is true that the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement (Joseph Smith) created the Church of Christ as a Nontrinitarian denomination. However, a number of denominational offshoots following the death of Smith and the Succession crisis that followed are actually traditional trinitarian denomination. Most notably the Community of Christ and its offshoots. The Community of Christ is the 2nd largest Latter Day Saint denomination after the LDS Church. As far as I can tell from List of sects in the Latter Day Saint movement the main Branches with in the Latter Day Saint movement are:


 * Nontrinitarian Sects:
 * Church of Christ and pre-death of Smith off shoots - Original church within movement - Nontrinitarian
 * Rocky Mountain Sects and off shoots -  LDS Church (largest sect) and off shoots - Mostly Nontrinitarian with a few that are neather Nontrinitarian or trinitarian.  The LDS Church is Nontrinitarian
 * Strangite sects and offshots - Nontrinitarian sects
 * Traditional Protestant trinitarian sects:
 * Josephites sects and off shoots - Community of Christ (2nd largest sect) and off shoots - These sects are traditional Protestant trinitarian followers.
 * Hedrickites sects - Church of Christ (Temple Lot) and off shoots (4th largest offshoot)  - Trinitarian sect.  See Beliefs.  It reads "We believe in Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, the manifestation of God in flesh...


 * Not sure:
 * Bickertonites sects and offshots - The The Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite) (3rd Largest sect) page reads "Jesus is viewed as being the "second personage", but unlike traditional trinitarian theology, Jesus is viewed as both the Father and the Son." which is unclear to me.
 * Cutlerites sects and offshots - Unclear.  [Church Website] seems to be saying they believed in a trinitarian doctrine, but I'm not sure.

So as you can see, While the original sects and the largest sect (the LDS Church) are Nontrinitarian, 2 of the 6 remaining active main branches (The 2nd and 4th larges shoots with a least 20 Latter Day Saint movement sects), are actually trinitarian, with 2 more I'm not sure about.

So ultimately, My point is, it isn't exactly true that the Latter Day Saint movement is Nontrinitarian as a whole. A large portion isn't --- ARTEST4ECHO (talk) 21:00, 27 August 2014 (UTC)


 * So I have now noticed that the main section heading is "Denominational families" -- and since there are no direct listing of any Trinitarian individual denominations (such as UMC) or even most of the many nontrinitarian individual denominations, we need to just go back to having no direct listing of any individual denominations. Anything else and this page will soon duplicate the purpose of List of Christian denominations, instead of being an Outline of Christianity. tahc chat 21:10, 27 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The Protestant and Catholic list denominations families only (such as Methodism, but not UMC). Likewise, Nontrinitarian list denominations families only (such as Latter Day Saint movement, but not The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). tahc chat 21:16, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 * So the Roman Catholic Church isn't a denomination. If that is the case why are you calling it "Catholic denominations" and not "Catholic denominations families"--- ARTEST4ECHO (talk) 21:19, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 * No, the Roman Catholic Church is a denomination. I am in the middle of making more edits but if you think it still needs to be removed from somewhere, lets look at that. tahc chat 21:38, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Quick explanation of Wikipedia outlines
"Outline" is short for "hierarchical outline". There are two types of outlines: sentence outlines (like those you made in school to plan a paper), and topic outlines (like the topical synopses that professors hand out at the beginning of a college course). Outlines on Wikipedia are primarily topic outlines that serve 2 main purposes: they provide taxonomical classification of subjects showing what topics belong to a subject and how they are related to each other (via their placement in the tree structure), and as subject-based tables of contents linked to topics in the encyclopedia. The hierarchy is maintained through the use of heading levels and indented bullets. See Outlines for a more in-depth explanation. The Transhumanist 23:52, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Consensus on Wikipedia on groupings of Christian denominations
I opened a discussion on groupings in Christianity, of which there currently seems to lack a consensus on Wikipedia. The discussion might be of interest for followers of this talk page. Please see: Talk:Christianity. Chicbyaccident (talk) 12:29, 6 January 2017 (UTC)