Talk:Outsider (Known Space)

Sale of hyperdrive to humans
I wish the source of this information was included in this article. I am working my way through the Known Space series, and I want to make sure I read the story where the Outsiders sell the hyperdrive to "We Made It" (funny how that name is suddenly ironic), but I am having a really difficult time finding out where this happened. I just finished "A Gift From Earth", and the Outsiders are not mentioned until the last few paragraphs, and they read like an introduction to a story I can not find. I know there is a Man-Kzin story ("The Heroic Myth of Lt. Nora Argamentine", MKW6) that appears to deal with it. Is that the story where most of this information comes from? -Armaced 17:55, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * To the best of my knowledge, the actual sale didn't happen "on camera" in any of the stories. It's discussed a moderate amount in "Ringworld", and in some of the "Man-Kzin Wars" stories. It's actually a minor plot point in "Ringworld", so I won't give spoilers. The chasing of starseeds, and much of the other background, was mentioned in several of the Beowulf stories in the "Neutron Star" collection. --Christopher Thomas 21:51, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Cool - thanks! I started reading Neutron Star yesterday, and am planning on reading Ringworld after that, followed by the Man-Kzin wars.  Larry Niven really likes to skip over the first contact stories, doesn't he?  That is surprising - I am used to Arthur C. Clarke, who loves to write first contact stories.  Thanks again!  -Armaced 16:58, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * The Outsider ship is shown setting course for a human colony in A Gift From Earth. --Kjoonlee 04:58, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Aargh, already mentioned.. sorry.. --Kjoonlee 04:59, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Origin of the Outsiders
Which book describes the origin of the outsiders? I'd thought my collection was pretty complete, and it's not in there (though I don't have a complete collection of the Man-Kzin Wars series). --Christopher Thomas 07:56, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The Outsiders' origin comes from the novelization of A Darker Geometry by Gregory Benford and Mark O. Martin (expanded from a short story of the same name in Man/Kzin Wars VII). It doesn't appear in the short story itself or any of the Man/Kzin Wars books, just the novel.


 * Note that Niven has officially declared A Darker Geometry non-canonical, so whatever it says about the Outsiders (or anything else, for that matter) isn't considered "real" in terms of the rest of the Known Space series.108.74.28.81 (talk) 17:07, 19 October 2014 (UTC)